Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

Participant

Berean,

Gene and I do not deny, ” For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

Such is defined by the below passages,

John 1:32 And John bare record, saying*, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him,

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Acts 2: 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

NOT YET FULFILLED,

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Berean, the fullness of the Godhead that dwells in Jesus is God’s Holy Spirit. This is the glory of the Father that is in the Son of Man when he returns to fulfill that which Isaiah says in chapter 11.

This son of Jesse is LED by the Spirit of God and therefore he is a Son of God. A father’s role is to direct his children in the way that they should go. When God promised David that He WOULD BE a Father unto David’s son, that is what He meant. God would cause the fullness of His Spirit to abode upon David’s son, where then God is a Father unto him as He directs him in the way that he should go.

March 20, 2021 at 1:18 pm#869843

Participant

Hi Danny,

YOU:

@Jodi

Jodi, I do believe that Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of His Father Yahweh God.
The Bible clearly says Luke 4:18
“THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE ANOINTED ME TO BRING GOOD NEWS TO THE POOR. HE HAS SENT ME TO PROCLAIM RELEASE TO CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERY OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET FREE THOSE WHO ARE OPPRESSED,

So, what’s your point?

ME: Well I use that passage along with other passages for various points.

For instance, that passage tells us WHEN Jesus became Christ (ANOINTED) and WHEN then Christ Jesus was sent into the world.

I also use it to point out that this is YHVH’s word given to the prophet Isaiah now fulfilled in the flesh.

Moreover this passage tells us that Jesus is our savior through the Spirit of YHVH.

It just so happens that when the Spirit descended upon Jesus like a dove coming to abode within him, God declared at that very moment that THIS was His Son, and we see that this Son is sent out into the world at that time. John 3 speaks to him receiving of this Spirit at full measure. No other mortal man received that measure, only Jesus was begotten of such. That Spirit in full measure coming to dwell within him was him being born of the Spirit of God, which is why Jesus of Nazareth is called God’s only begotten Son whom God sent.

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus is a man and he is referring to himself in verse 3 to Nicodemus. God is not just with Jesus as Nicodemus says, Jesus is telling him that he was born again of God.

The Spirit abodes within Jesus so he can be sent to perform signs and miracles but also to give prophecy of God’s coming kingdom. Jesus sees and preaches of the kingdom of God through having been born again, born of the Spirit of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus was born again at the river Jordon as an only begotten of the Spirit without measure, he died but was raised from the dead given eternal life and as God had promised unto David’s son, Jesus was settled into God’s house.

There is much more I could say about this but I will just leave it at that for now.

March 20, 2021 at 2:07 pm#869844

Participant

Hi LU,

Great idea,

Here is mine,

1 God (Father), who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son (Jesus), whom he (Father) hath appointed heir of all things, by (dia- on account of) whom also he (Father) made the worlds;

3 Who (Jesus) being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his (Father) person, and upholding all things by the word of his (Father’s) power, when he (Jesus) had by himself (Jesus) purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high (Father);

4 Being made so much better than the angels (prophets), as he (Jesus) hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The prophets are messengers (Aggelos) of God, as the Son Jesus was likewise a messenger (Aggelos) of God,

5 For unto which of the angels (prophets) said he (Father) at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee (Jesus)? And again, I will be to him (Jesus) a Father, and he (Jesus) shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he (Father) bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he (Father) saith, And let all the angels (prophets) of God (Father) worship him. (Jesus)

7 And of the angels (prophets) he (Father) saith, Who maketh his (Father) angels (prophets) spirits, and his (Father) ministers (prophets) a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God (Jesus), is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (Jesus), even thy God (Father), hath anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (prophets).

10 And, Thou, Lord (Father), in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine (Father) hands:

11 They shall perish (prophets); but thou (Father) remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12 And as a vesture shalt thou (Father) fold them up, and they (prophets) shall be changed: but thou (Father) art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13 But to which of the angels (prophets) said he (Father) at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy (Jesus) footstool?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits (prophets), sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

March 20, 2021 at 9:14 pm#869846

Participant

Hi Jodi

YOU DON’T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO VERSES

COLOSSIANS 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

AND

Luk4:1

And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

IN JESUS MAN, THERE WAS THE FULLNESS OF DIVINITY AND ALSO THE FULLNESS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. THE HOLY SPIRIT SUPPORTED HIS HUMAN NATURE AS HE DOES FOR ALL OF HIS BORN AGAINST CHILDREN
THE POINT YOU DIDN’T KNOW IS THAT HIS DIVINITY WAS UNITED TO HIS HUMANITY.

LET WATCH THE VIDEO I POSTED

THE DIVINITY OF CHRIST

Have a good day

March 20, 2021 at 9:20 pm#869847

Participant

I ENCOURAGE ALL TO WATCH THIS VIDEO POSTED HERE

Thé DIVINITY OF CHRIST

MARCH 17, 2021 AT 2:35 PM#

869781REPLY

March 21, 2021 at 3:42 am#869854

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Jodi, you reply # 869842 is exactly right. If they were truly of “the truth” they would understand it, and acknowledge it, But it only testifies against them , that they are not of the truth. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours………gene

March 21, 2021 at 5:16 am#869855

Ed J

Participant

@mikeboll64

Ed, I did a lengthy post a while ago on how the Word most certainly is Jesus. You didn’t say a word to refute it.

Hi Mike,

You post long bloated posts like “WorshipingJesus” used to post,
and you don’t consider the things I say in response to what you say.

So what’s the use when you won’t listen?

____________
God bless
Ed J

March 21, 2021 at 5:39 am#869856

https://www.bibleref.com/Colossians/2/Colossians-2-9.html

Participant

To all

What does Colossians 2:9 mean?

Speaking of Christ, Paul closely imitates the phrasing he used in Colossians 1:19. In chapter 1, the connection was reconciliation with God through the blood of Christ. Here, the contrast is between the importance of deceptive human philosophy and Christ’s wisdom. His ways are higher than our ways (Isaiah 55:9).

These words also emphasize the human aspect of Jesus. Some taught that Jesus was divine, but not fully human. Paul clearly noted Jesus was physically human while also fully divine (John 1:1). Though modern skeptics often argue belief in the deity of Jesus was a later development, Paul clearly believed and wrote about the deity of Jesus in this letter, which was written around AD 60—62. This was a teaching Paul said he received from the apostles after his conversion, which occurred within three years of the resurrection (Galatians 1:18). The doctrine of Jesus’ deity is not a later invention, but the teaching of the eyewitnesses of Jesus.

Context Summary
Colossians 2:6–15 describes Christ’s superiority in defeating sin. This is shown in stark contrast to the failure of the unbelieving world. Paul encourages the Colossians not to be tricked by deceptive arguments. This passage also explains the drastic nature of salvation. Those who put their faith in Christ are ”spiritually” circumcised and are identified with God through their faith. This act of forgiveness by God frees us from the eternal penalty of sin, restores our relationship, and defeats the evil forces fighting against us.

Chapter Summary
In this passage, Paul warns Christians not to be taken in by deceptive arguments. These claims are attractive, but are merely tricks: they sound true, but they are not. Arguing for self-denial, legalism, visions, and other practices only looks good to observers. None of these are the real source of spiritual growth. Paul emphasizes the way Christ accomplished everything we need to be justified before God. As a result, there is no reason for believers to pursue these false, shallow ”shadows.” We have the real substance: Jesus, so we should follow Him.

March 21, 2021 at 5:40 am#869857

Blocked

Ed, my last post just asked a simple question. Here it is again…

Who did John the Baptizer come as a witness to?

Surely that question is not a “long bloated post”, is it? Surely you could just answer the question instead of diverting, right?

March 21, 2021 at 5:45 am#869858

Blocked

Jodi: 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (Jesus), even thy God (Father), hath anointed thee (Jesus) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows (prophets).

I agree with your assessment of Hebrews 1. The only part I understand differently is above, where I think both of the “Gods” are the Father, as in, “Therefore God – who is your God as well – has anointed you (Jesus)…”

But that is a minor disagreement that amounts to nothing. Well done.

My understanding fits perfectly with John 20:17, “I go now to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God…”

And when you think about it, this one single statement made by Jesus himself should completely nullify any debate about Jesus being the Most High God. After all, Jesus clearly tells us that OUR God is also HIS God. So who is our God? Well, the same one who is the God of Jesus. Which one is our God… Jesus or Jesus’ own God? Jesus told us in plain terms. End of story.

March 21, 2021 at 8:15 am#869859

Danny Dabbs

Participant

@Jodi

Jesus was born again at the river Jordon as an only begotten of the Spirit without measure,

First, The Bible doesn’t say that! Second, That’s Gnostic heresy!

March 21, 2021 at 9:01 am#869860

Participant

To all

But unto the Son he saith,

I)

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

II)

[10] AND,

Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
[11] They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
[11] They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

REV.3[22] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

March 21, 2021 at 9:04 am#869861

Participant

But unto the Son he saith I AND II

HE = GOD THE FATHER

March 21, 2021 at 10:57 am#869862

Participant

Hi Berean,

YOU:

ME:

One who is of divinity (of divine nature) is one who is of the Holy Spirit of YHVH, they are the same thing as shown below in scripture.

Below the promise is called the divine nature,

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine (Theios) nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Below that same promise is called the Holy Spirit,

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Romans 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Acts 2: 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 17: 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead (Theios) is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

The Spirit bears witness to our spirit we are children of God.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

We are offspring of God and we ought not to think of the Godhead/divine nature/His Spirit, to which we are promised to receive, is like that of false idols.

The Holy Spirit is our one God the Father’s Spirit, where the intelligence and powers of His Spirit are what make Him identified as being Divine. As He is the only being where of Himself He exists with these divine powers to which men ascribe as super natural, He is thus the only true God. His Spirit also expresses the function of His character, truthful, patient, full of justice, loving, etc.

Our one true God YHVH ‘s Spirit is the SOURCE, to which He shares at measure according to His will and purpose with His created. When Jesus was mortal and when he was resurrected he received the fullness of that Spirit, it was a calling to righteousness, it was receiving gifts of wisdom and understanding, it was receiving mighty powers, all the things that we recognize in him and by him that make him of the divine nature of the ONE TRUE Divine Being YHVH! When we are resurrected we are promised the Spirt/divine nature/Godhead to dwell in us to where we will walk in all of YHVH’s ways. Such will be the fulfillment of Jesus being a firstborn of many brethren. Such will be the fulfillment of the inheritance YHVH promised unto humans from the beginning of creation.

Jeremiah 10:8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities. 9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men. 10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. 11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. 12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. 13 When he UTTERITH HIS VOICE, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures. 14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. 15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish. 16 The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name.

March 21, 2021 at 2:13 pm#869863

Participant

Hi Danny,

The TRUTH is the SUM of scripture, where I apply scripture with scripture.

ME : “Jesus was born again at the river Jordon as an only begotten of the Spirit without measure”

Why don’t you discuss the scriptures that I gave that together support my statement above and tell me specifically how it is you think I am wrong?

Does the bible not tell us of a truth in more ways than one to bring greater meaning and understanding?

Your really think that the Spirit of God coming to live within is not the same thing as being begotten of the Spirit of God?

Is Jesus the only one who you know of that received the Spirit to dwell within him without measure, or do you believe there were others?

March 22, 2021 at 3:31 am#869878

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Mike…..Good assessment of what JODI WROTE, I think Jodi meant it the way you said, I also see it the way you put it too. Jodi is a real blessing to this site, because of all the scriptures she gives to support her conclusions, and mine too I might add.

peace and love to you and yours………gene

March 22, 2021 at 7:03 am#869879

http://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=10&verse=3

Blocked

Berean:
But unto the Son he saith I AND II

HE = GOD THE FATHER

Hi Berean, did you know that since the NT Bible writers did not use punctuation marks, they often wrote in run-on sentences connected by the word “and”? Here’s just one quick example…

Click on footnote 4 on the NET version at the top and read what it says. (I was going to post a screenshot of this, but we apparently no longer have the ability to post images here.) Anyway, this is just one example of hundreds where English translations remove the Greek “and” because we use punctuation in English, and don’t need to begin each new sentence with the word “and”.

The point is that the “and” to which you refer does NOT have to go along with “unto the Son he says”. Verse 10 could be a completely different thought that has nothing to do with what God says unto the Son. The fact that it starts with the conjunction “and” means nothing, as that is just Greek literary style.

March 22, 2021 at 7:05 am#869880