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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

Viewing 20 posts - 21,941 through 21,960 (of 25,932 total)
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  • March 10, 2021 at 8:53 pm#869655
    Berean
    Participant

    JODI

    As long as You deny THE DIVINITY OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, your speech WILL BE  UNACCEPTABLE !

     

     

    March 11, 2021 at 3:43 am#869656
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj……And because we are the Sons of God also,  God has sent the Spirit of the “ANOINTING”  or Christos,  into our hearts also, THAT IS NOT SAYING THE CHRISTOS OR ANOINTING SPIRIT IS JESUS AT ALL. It is saying Jesus has the anointing spirit on him. 

    So we by that anointing process are Jesus’ actual brothers and sisters and all who have the anointing Spirit on them are Christ’s themselves too,  just like Jesus is.
    “you” must be born again” of the Spirit as Jesus the Anointed one of God was also> trying to make Jesus out to be the anointing Spirit or Christos, HIMSELF,  is a false teaching. Jesus is the “ANOINTED” ONE, OF GOD, BECAUSE GOD ANOINTED HIM,  BUT HE IS NOT HIMSELF THE ANOINTING SPIRIT, HE HAS IT, SO MUST WE ALL, IN ORDER TO BECOME BORN AGAIN SON OF GOD.

    I THROUGH YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT.

    peace and love to you and yours………..gene

     

     

    March 11, 2021 at 4:45 am#869658
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all……what Jodi and I are telling you is the truth ,  Jesus is not the Anointing Spirit or Christos “himself”, he has the “anointing ” Spirit on him , he is THE “ANOINTED ” ONE. who GOD the Father , anointed at the Jordan river with his Holy Spirit, making him the Christo’s   or ANOINTED ONE OF GOD.  

    If you don’t understand that, it would explain a lot of your misunderstandings  of scriptures.  It is these basic things that cause a lot of confusion . Because it molded our understanding of Jesus and who he really is.

    remember what Jesus said, “” for “many” will come in my name saying, “I am the Christ”,  and DECEIVE,   “MANY”. 

    So preaching Jesus as “himself”  being the Christ  or the anointing Spirit “himself”, is a deception. Preaching Jesus as having the anointing Spirit of God on him is not a deception. He that has ears to hear let him hear.
    peace and love to you all and yours……….gene

     

    March 11, 2021 at 7:03 am#869659
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @edj

    Hi Danny,

    They think:
    The “spirit of Christ” is the “spirit of God” instead of the spirit of the son.
    It is sad to see people stray far away from what the bible actually teaches!

    Hi Ed J,
    I agree with you wholeheartedly there.
    Yes, Galatians 4:6 is very clear:
    “Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!”

    God bless,
    Danny

    March 11, 2021 at 7:38 am#869660
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @genebalthrop

    Gene, No one denies the spirit of God the Father.
    But Jesus himself has a spirit too – the spirit of Christ.
    See Galatians 4:6!
    We need BOTH. See John 14:23!

    God bless,

    Danny

    March 11, 2021 at 8:44 am#869661
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Gene

    You wrote

    So preaching Jesus as “himself”  being the Christ  or the anointing Spirit “himself”, is a deception. Preaching Jesus as having the anointing Spirit of God on him is not a deception. He that has ears to hear let him hear. 

    Me

    WHY You Said That(So preaching Jesus as “himself”  being the Christ…IS a deception)  ?

     

    Jésus HIMSELF had approved Peter         when  he answer To Jesus :

    And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    BEFORE his baptism, Jesus is called “Christ” by King Herod
    Matt. 2
    [4] After gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he asked them where Christ was to be born.

     

    March 11, 2021 at 10:12 am#869662
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU: Where is Jesus’ body right now according to you?

    Before answering your question be aware, there was a particular Jesus’ body who died, buried, and resurrected, and there was also a Jesus’ body who died, glorified, on His death and became ONE SUBSTANCE with the Holy Ghost on the cross and became

    JESUS CHRIST.

    NOT JUST A BODY ANYMORE, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN, THE UNIQUE CARRIER OF THE FULL DEITY. BUT ONE UNIQUE EMBODIMENT COMPOSED OF

    SPIRIT, SOUL, AND FLESH. THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD BODILY  Colossians 2:9

    GODMAN on earth, John 13:31-32, John4:36.37, John17:1

    So which Jesus’ body you are interested in.

    Keep in mind that you asked me about a particular body NOT ABOUT JESUS as a being! So read hereunder:

    1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ,…..

    So the church is also Jesus’ body, or more precise HIS MYSTICAL BODY! Now read hereunder regarding Jesus’ body

    1 Corinthians 15:40 And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial and another of the terrestrial. 41One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory.

    The above is a reference to the universe in general, as Jesus’ body, ALL IN HIM!

    The fact that Jesus in the last supper said those precise words:

    EAT THIS IS MY BODY HOLDING THE BREAD A PHYSICAL ELEMENT. ORIGINALLY ADAM’S. Also mentioned by Jesus in

    John6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth,

    but for that which endureth unto life everlasting,

    which the Son of man will give you.

    For him hath God, the Father, sealed.

    ETERNAL LIFE SEALED IN THE PROCESS OF CREATION, TO SUSTAIN ALL IN HIM and ALL BY HIM.

    ASSERTED HEREUNDER

    1 Colossians 15 Who is the image of the invisible God,

    The above Lu is Jesus’body as THE UNIQUE IMAGE OF GOD before creation STARTED, the only and unique embodiment of God hidden and unknown. For the sake of the free will of the heavenly realms in the probation period to justify their loyalty to God WITHOUT HIS VISIBLE PRESENCE THROUGH FAITH.

    the firstborn of every creature:

    16 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, (GENESIS 1:1) visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. 17And he is before all, and by him all things consist.

    According to the above, ALL THINGS ARE IN A WAY ALSO THE BODY OF JESUS, WELL ASSERTED FURTHER DOWN

    18And he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he may hold the primacy:

    19Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father,

     that all fullness should dwell;

    20And through him to reconcile ALL THINGS  unto himself, making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.

    Now to Jesus’ own words:

    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,

    will draw all things to myself.

    In the above Lu Jesus said that when He is lifted up will draw all things onto Himself. But in actual fact from the very beginning,  ALL THINGS  were in Him, and by him, with respect to 1 Colossians 15. plus also that HE WAS/IS IN ONE GLORY,

     THE GENUINE IMAGE AND EMBODIMENT OF GOD, HIDDEN AND UNKNOWN!

    John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.

    The only reason that Jesus declared so when He is lifted up, simply as Lucifer rebelled and never accepted to be subject to

    JESUS CHRIST GODMAN, since though divine, is still JUST A MAN,

    without a direct confrontation with him

    THE BEGINNING and the only angel of light, the primordial light, the morning star, by which light all the heavenly realms were fully luminous, unaware of that in him, IN HIS HEART was

    ETERNAL LIFE, HIS LIFE, THE GENUINE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT, AND THE BRIGHT MORNING STAR!

    “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE!

    In the beginning (LUCIFER) was the word……

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    March 11, 2021 at 10:45 am#869663
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    Thanks, I am having a great day. We are seeing some signs of spring here finally.

    You said:

    …why isn’t their creation mentioned then in the account thereof in Genesis?

    Gen 2:1 says: Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.

    It is there that the angels are mentioned. The host of the heavens were the angels, as well as the sun, moon and stars, and planets.

    Scripture tells us that the image (i.e.the Son) of the invisible God existed before the angels existed, btw. It also tells us that it was the Son that all things in heaven were made, in the Son and through the Son and for the Son.

    Col 1 16For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 

    Be well, LU

    March 11, 2021 at 10:49 am#869664
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Carmel,

    Where is Jesus’ body now, that was born of Mary?

    March 12, 2021 at 12:18 am#869669
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @Lightenup

    When did He become the Father of the Son? What was He before He became the Father of the Son?

    When the begat or created the first life to be with him would be my guess.

    We know that he was called the Father even before Jesus came into this world. Read on.

    Jer 31:9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

    Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

    Isa 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

    Deu 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

    Jer 3:19 But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

    Mal 1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

    Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

    Pro 3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

    Psa 103:13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

    Hos 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

    Isa 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

    Exo 4:22,23 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

    Deu 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

    Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

    Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    March 12, 2021 at 12:20 am#869670
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @Lightenup

    God doesn’t change.

    Yet you think the Father came from an earlier entity which spawned both the Father and the Son.

    So the Father had a father according to your teaching.

    Did that father of the Father have a father before that one must wonder if we were to take your doctrine seriously.

    Of course we don’t take it seriously.

    March 12, 2021 at 1:08 am#869672
    Ed J
    Participant

    @genebalthrop

    Gene, No one denies the spirit of God the Father.
    But Jesus himself has a spirit too – the spirit of Christ.
    See Galatians 4:6!
    We need BOTH. See John 14:23!

    God bless,

    Danny

    Good Job Danny!

    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
    he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and
    WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.” (John 14:23)

    Who is the “WE” ? Simple…

    1 The Spirit of God – God’s HolySpirit himself
    …………….and
    2 The Spirit of Christ – Spirit of the Son

    “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:8-9)

    Romans 8:8 does not mean if you reside in the flesh as in haven’t died yet,
    Instead Romans 8:9 makes it clear you are a spirit-filled person containing BOTH…

    1 The Spirit of the Father – “Spirit of God”
    ………………and
    2 The Spirit of the Son  –  “Spirit of Christ”

    Again Danny, may their eyes be opened to “The Truth”!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    March 12, 2021 at 1:23 am#869673
    Ed J
    Participant

    JODI

    As long as You deny THE DIVINITY OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, your speech WILL BE UNACCEPTABLE !

    Hi Berean,

    Long winded speeches that go no-where as ‘they’ (these speeches) are riddled with errors!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    March 12, 2021 at 1:26 am#869674
    Ed J
    Participant

    And…

    If you try to UNPACK these speeches “they” (Jodi and Gene)
    will simply ignore your points, and go into yet another
    speech that is riddled with errors. How sad really.

    conversations that go no-where!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    March 12, 2021 at 1:38 am#869675
    Ed J
    Participant

    I THROUGH YOU UNDERSTOOD THAT.

    What I understand is this Gene:

    That you and Jodi deny and try to explain away these plain texts,
    trying to discount them – based on your false preconceived ideas of truth…

    “But thou,
    Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
    yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
    whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)

    …………………..and

    “And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David’s son?
    42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms,

    The LORD (YeHoVaH) said unto my Lord (Christ),
    Sit thou on my right hand,
    43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
    44 David therefore calleth him (Christ) Lord,
    how is he then his (David’s) son?     (Luke 20:41-44)

    To all……what Jodi and I are telling you is the truth,
    Jesus is not the Anointing Spirit or Christos…

    No-one is buying into your fleshly errors – NO-ONE!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    March 12, 2021 at 1:54 am#869676
    Ed J
    Participant

    PS Danny

    Notice how I didn’t say he was lying? – as you do not like this wording

    March 12, 2021 at 4:25 am#869679
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj……Cleaver how you eliminate parts of a post , to make it out to be false, Satan himself couldn’t do a better job.   Now as I recall you saying that the word was not Jesus>. Have you changed again on that?  Please tell us again who the Word to you is then.

    The spirit of Jesus spoken of in scriptures is the HOLY SPIRIT he was “ANOINTED WITH”  which is from GOD THE FATHER. 

    Scripture says,  “not your false interpretations “.  This ,   Rom 8:11…..”now if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you. ‘He’ that raised up Christ (the anointed one) from the dead shall “also” quicken your “mortal” BODIES by his Spirit that dwells in you”.

    No scripture says, we has the man Jesus’ Spirit at all. We have the “anointing” Spirit that Jesus had on him , dwelling in us, who have it.  That is the same Spirit that was “IN” Jesus. That makes the,  “ONE” GOD “IN” ALL AND “THROUGH” ALL.

    Edj…… Go back to your drawing board and try To find more trash talk, to deny what Jodi and I both are saying.  Your half quotes and one liner trash talk, doesn’t work on those who have the truth of God “in’ them.

    peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    March 12, 2021 at 4:47 am#869680
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj….. Where did Jodi deny Jesus had the Devine nature in him , she, as I , deny his deity,  another words, that he was a “GOD ” as you and other false teachers believe,  were not denying his Devine Nature he had, nor do we deny the Devine nature we also have, as a result of the same spirit put in us too.

    Doesn’t scripture say , that we are partakers of that “Devine nature” ?  Why not try to find that if you can, it would be a good exercise for you and others false teachers  who think like you. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

    March 12, 2021 at 7:00 am#869681
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @edj

    Good Job Danny!

    Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
    he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and
    WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.” (John 14:23)

    Who is the “WE” ? Simple…

    1 The Spirit of God – God’s HolySpirit himself
    …………….and
    2 The Spirit of Christ – Spirit of the Son

    “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:8-9)

    Romans 8:8 does not mean if you reside in the flesh as in haven’t died yet,
    Instead Romans 8:9 makes it clear you are a spirit-filled person containing BOTH…

    1 The Spirit of the Father – “Spirit of God”
    ………………and
    2 The Spirit of the Son  –  “Spirit of Christ”

    Again Danny, may their eyes be opened to “The Truth”!

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    You laid it out perfectly.

    God bless,

    Danny

    March 12, 2021 at 7:22 am#869682
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @edj

    PS Danny

    Notice how I didn’t say he was lying? – as you do not like this wording

    That’s fine, because maybe he is just deceived.

    God bless,

    Danny

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