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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

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  • March 9, 2021 at 10:59 am#869628
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Mike, I would also like to give you some advice about your first video and your second which I haven’t seen yet.

    Put them in a different channel or delete you flat earth videos. Why?

    A little leaven works through the whole batch of dough.

    March 9, 2021 at 11:32 am#869629
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Imagine this as a picture of the eternal essence going from one, into two, resulting in a Father and a son, both from eternal essence and both identical to each other.

    Blessings, LU

    We don’t read this anywhere in scripture. Instead we read that the source of all, even the son, is the Father. It says that he is the Father of all spirits. Simple stuff.

    We don’t read that the Father was sourced from an earlier being or entity that spawned two beings.  That would make the Father a son of some kind.

    The Father has no father. He is the first because he is eternal. He has always been.

    March 9, 2021 at 6:25 pm#869630
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny,

    YOU: We read that the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of old (1 Peter 1:11).
    This proves that Christ existed at that time, prior to His human existence.

    ME:

    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    I would whole heartedly disagree with you, no proof at all. Not only that but such an interpretation to that passage just makes other passages into lies.

    The Father calls me by His Spirit to understand His word, I read of the anointed Jesus of Nazareth and his spirit enters into my heart and mind.  Now imagine you’re a prophet, the very one receiving the word of YHVH with visions of the future anointed Jesus. Image you are David and it is your own son that YHVH is saying that He IS GOING TO BE a Father unto your son and WILL settle him into YHVH’s house, where you know by your own seed there is to be a resurrection of life. Imagine you are the prophet Isaiah, you see the anointing and the great works done in YHVH’s name by Jesus of Nazareth. You see his unrelenting faith as you watch him be tortured and hung on the cross. You see his resurrection and him sitting at YHVH’s right hand, and finally you see the dead rise at his return where he destroys the wicked bringing forth justice. You then see him set up the glorious kingdom of God where he sits on his father David’s throne according to the flesh and is a firstborn Son of many brethren unto our Father YHVH. Of course David and Isaiah and the prophets had the spirit of the anointed son of Jesse within their heart and mind, how in the world could they not? 

    If I believe that a person who has ceased all together to exist but their spirit can still live on within you, I am going to have no problem believing that a prophet can have the spirit of someone not even existing yet, living within them too. 

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I WILL raise up thy seed after thee, which SHALL BE of thy sons; and I WILL establish his kingdom. 12 He SHALL build me an house, and I WILL stablish his throne for ever. 13 I WILL BE his father, and he SHALL BE my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I WILL settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne SHALL BE established for evermore. 

    There was no Son yet, there was no Son settled in YHVH’s house yet, and not until the son of Jesse was anointed with YHVH’s Spirit at the river Jordan there was no Christ our savior yet either.

     

    March 10, 2021 at 3:58 am#869631
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny,

    I want to clarify something.

    Jesus is human, he has a human spirit and upon his anointing he had the Spirit of YHVH dwelling upon him. He was the only mortal man to have been anointed OF the Spirit without measure. 

    The words Christ and Messiah represent “the anointed”, the anointed of the Spirit. Jesus is not the only Messiah in scripture. David we are directly told not only received YHVH’s Spirit at a measure of course, but he is called a Messiah as well. All the prophets were anointed with the Spirit (mashiach/christos) having the Spirit within them.

    The Spirit of the anointed (mashiach/christos) is YHVH’s Spirit living in a human spirit.

    Jesus Christ represents of course the anointed Jesus where he is likewise just referred to as Christ. He is specifically a Messiah/Christ that YHVH chose to be the savior of the world.

    The prophets had the christos – anointing of the Spirit within them and they likewise had Jesus’s spirit within them too, this is true for the prophets and apostles of the New Testament as well. 

    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    Taking a closer look at the above text, The Spirit that was of Jesus Christ dwelling in him was YHVH’s Spirit upon his spirit, therefore in the passage the “Spirit of Christ” represent YHVH’s Spirit that was also within the prophets, to which that Spirit testified to them beforehand the suffering of Jesus Christ.

    The prophets were anointed with the Spirit of YHVH. 

    It was indeed the Spirit of YHVH which is the Spirit within anyone anointed, thus is the Spirit of messiach/christos (the Spirit of Christ) that testified to the prophets the truth of their future Messiah, concerning his suffering and the glory that would come afterward. 

     

    March 10, 2021 at 4:09 am#869632
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Lu…..The word Christ, simply means the anointing of anyone who has the Spirit of God on them,  that includes all the true prophets, of God , including Jesus.  Has nothing to do with any person’s “preexistence” at all.  Jesus is not the anointing Spirit he has or had on him , not now nor in the future either, He is a human being anointed with it (and it is the Spirit of God) which is not exclusive to just him, many had God the Fathers anointing Spirit on them , before Jesus ever existed,  and that is how God spoke through them , it was by his Spirit, the same thing as he does through Jesus and even the Apostles who received it.  In fact if we have not the anointing Spirit of God  (Christos) in us, we are simply non of his.
    Using the word Christos, to just apply to Jesus is just another false teaching. While Jesus is an “anointed” one,  he is by no means the “only” anointed one.  All the Sons of God are anointed one’s,  That’s what it means by “his seed” abides in them”,  that ‘seed mentioned there is the Spirit of God in them, we received when we we anointed with it from God the Father.
    “YOU MUST BE “BORN” AGAIN”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

     

    March 10, 2021 at 4:34 am#869633
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To All…….From days of old simply means that Jesus was in the “plan” of God,  even before he created humanity on this earth.  Jesus was ,  “prophesied” to come into “existence” from the foundations of the earth and even his sacrifice was to.    Not that he actually existed then.  God the father  plans something and then causes it to happen, that includes us and Jesus also. We were from the beginning just as The “man” Jesus ,  in the “PLAN” AND WILL,  OF GOD. Just that Simple.  God thinks things out “before”  he creates it, much  like we do.  This whole creation is a result of  a planning of God, before it ever happened, we were all foreknown, from  start to finish .  

    That is all that verse is saying , to read something else into is if simply not true.

     

    March 10, 2021 at 5:43 am#869634
    Jodi
    Participant

    To All,

    Gene is right!

    Consider,

    Mashach – to anoint

    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed (mashach) me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

    Mashiyach – anointed one, translated Messiah (word origin Mashach) 

    The promise of YHVH was TO ANOINT (MASHACH) the son of Jesse with His Spirit making him an ANOINTED ONE (Mashiyach/Messiah) in order for him to be sent out into the world to fulfill YHVH’s will becoming our savior.

    Chrio -to anoint

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted*, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 

    Christos – anointed one, translated Christ (word origin Chrio)

    The promise of YHVH was fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Jesse. YHVH was TO ANOINT (Chrio) with His Spirit Jesus, making him an ANOINTED ONE (Christos/Christ) for to send him out into the world as our Christ appointed to save the world. 

    This anointing was Jesus becoming the only mortal man to be begotten of the Spirit without measure, the direct meaning as to why Jesus is called God’s only begotten Son. 

    After he was raised from the dead becoming a man with eternal life and receiving the Holy Spirit according to a promise, he began to be called the first begotten of the dead, the firstborn of many brethren.

    Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. 

    Just as Jesus had been begotten of the Spirit at the river Jordan he was raised from the dead being begotten of the Spirit, no longer ever to depart but dwelling within him for all eternity at a measure that brings forth righteousness causing one to walk in all of YHVH’s ways. The promise that he received is our same promise, which is why for those who saw and handled the resurrected man Jesus, it caused them to have faith in their own resurrection and receiving of the promised Holy Spirit.

    March 10, 2021 at 6:17 am#869635
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @Jodi

    Jodi, there is no spirit of Christ without Christ.
    The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of old (1 Peter 1:11).
    So again it is very clear that there is no spirit of Christ without Christ.

    God bless,

    Danny

    March 10, 2021 at 8:27 am#869636
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    ME: Please speak to how Isaiah’s passages below fit into your doctrine. I have said that the below passages CONTRADICT your doctrine and you don’t seem to have an answer.

    YOU: My ANSWER

    ISAIAH 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    Genesis 1:26
    [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    LET US MAKE MAN…

    GOD SPOKE TO WHOM ???????

    ME: 

    Berean, you are not speaking to the passages that I gave that I asked you to directly apply to your own doctrine and explain how they fit in . If you want to introduce other passages that’s fine, but they need to be included with the specific ones I asked you to address, otherwise you aren’t actually  answering my question at all. 

    You have ignored those passages that directly contradict your doctrine and instead you have just introduced other passages that you interpret in a manner that just brings forth more contradiction. 

    Isaiah 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. 22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open. 23 And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father’s house. 

    That glorious throne that Jesus sits on was his father David’s throne, and he not only sits on it according to the flesh but this throne is an eternal throne, which makes him an everlasting father. 

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God (el), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    el

    god, god-like one, mighty one
    mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
    angels
    god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
    God, the one true God, Jehovah
    mighty things in nature
    strength, power

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins….

    …10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. 11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. 

    Isaiah 9:6 has EVERYTHING to do with Isaiah 11 and 22 concerning the son of Jesse and who YHVH makes this son of man to be. NOTHING to do with Jesus pre-existing. 

    Genesis 1:26-27 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Berean, YHVH created heaven and earth ALONE all by Himself and He did so WITH HIS POWERS. He and His POWERS altogether created heaven and earth.  By the Spirit of Wisdom, the Spirit of Understanding, the Spirit of Council and Might and the Spirit of Knowledge were heaven and earth created. 

    Which is why we read Genesis 1:21-22 and 2:7 like we do.

    Elohiym (powers of YHVH, his special possessions that make Him alone our only true God) where He not only uses those powers to make man in His own image but He can also grant those powers unto others, as He did with Jesus as well as many others. 

    26 And Elohiym (the powers of YHVH) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

    27 So Elohiym created man in his own image, in the image of Elohiym created he him; male and female created he them.

    2:7 And YHVH Elohiym formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    The Mechanical Translation of Genesis by Jeff A.Benner

    Genesis 1:26  and “Elohiym (Powers)” said, we will make a human in our image like our likeness..

    1:27 and “Elohiym (Powers)” fattened the human in his image, in the image of “Elohiym (Powers)” he fattened him, male and female he fattened them,

    2:7 and ” YHWH (He exists)” of “Elohiym (Powers)” molded the human of powder from the ground and he exhaled in his nostrils a breath of life and the human existed for a being of life,

    Berean, we know that scripture directly tells us that YHVH created heaven and earth alone/Himself and we know that it was done through His Powers.  YHVH directly goes from speaking about Himself creating heaven and earth to then immediately speaking prophecy concerning the son of Jesse. Jesus is that son of Jesse, he is not YHVH nor was he with YHVH in the beginning creating heaven and earth, such would make Isaiah into a liar. 

    March 10, 2021 at 9:04 am#869637
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Danny,

    YOU:

    Jodi, there is no spirit of Christ without Christ.
    The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of old (1 Peter 1:11).
    So again it is very clear that there is no spirit of Christ without Christ.

    ME: 

    Maybe you posted this before you saw my second post giving some clarification, so maybe now you can see that there is no proof of Jesus pre-existing from that passage, once you have the knowledge to the word “Christ”, as that word/title applies to others besides Jesus. 

    The word Christ/Christos  means “anointed one”, which when you have been anointed such is a TITLE you can rightfully be given.

    1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

    David was a Christos/Mashiyach,  he was an “anointed one”. He was anointed OF the Spirit of YHVH. 

    The Spirit that is of an “anointed one” (Christos/Christ/Mashiyach/Messiah) is YHVH’s Spirit. 

     David had the Spirit of Christos within him, that’s NOT Jesus’s spirit in him, that is the Spirit of YHVH in him. Likewise the prophets had the Spirit of Christ in them too in this same manner. 

    People are anointed (Christos) of the Spirit of YHVH, therefore the Spirit of the Christos is the Spirit of YHVH. 

    What we are being told  in 1 Peter 1 is that the Messiahs (anointed prophets having the Spirit of prophecy within them) had been given the prophecy of the coming Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, the promised son of Jesse who would save the world. 

    March 10, 2021 at 9:10 am#869638
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    YOU: Using the word Christos, to just apply to Jesus is just another false teaching.

    John4:25 The woman saith to him: I know that the Messias cometh

    (who is called Christ);

    therefore, when he is come,

    he will tell us all things. (ONLY JESUS TOLD ALL US  THINGS)

    26Jesus saith to her:

    I AM HE, (THERE’S NO OTHER CHRIST Gene)

    who am speaking with thee.

     

    Gene,  THE PURE TRUTH IS THAT JESUS HIMSELF CONFIRMED THAT

    HE IS THE ONLY CHRIST!

    HE CAME AND TOLD US EVERYTHING!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    March 10, 2021 at 9:39 am#869639
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You said:

    Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    The above tells me that angels are present at this creation rather than having been created during it.

    There are a few things I could say to challenge your post but, to continue to keep my responses to you brief, I have this challenge…Job 39:4 only tells you that the sons of God existed when the foundations of the earth were laid, not that they weren’t created in between day one and the laying of the foundations of the earth. Before day one, the earth was formless.

     

     

    March 10, 2021 at 9:40 am#869640
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Gene,

    You said:

    Lu…..The word Christ, simply means the anointing of anyone who has the Spirit of God on them,  that includes all the true prophets, of God , including Jesus.  Has nothing to do with any person’s “preexistence” at all.

    Did you mean to address this to me?

     

    March 10, 2021 at 10:38 am#869642
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU:The “giving” of his body was figurative, not literal.

    No one really ate Jesus’ flesh or drank his blood. He uses bread and wine as objects to remind us of his bodily sacrifice for our sins.

    ME: My perception in that particular post was not regarding:

    THE EATING AND DRINKING OF JESUS’ FLESH AND BLOOD! 

    So I am not going to comment on that for now!

    My perception was REGARDING THE WORDS BY JESUS WHEN HE SAID

    Eat this is my body which IS GIVEN FOR YOU…...

    OK Lu?

    SO JESUS IN THE ABOVE CONFIRMED THAT

    HE GAVE HIS BODY  AS A SACRIFICE IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HUMAN RACE!

    JESUS WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT, PURPOSELY DIED AND

    GAVE HIS DEAD BODY TO THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

    ON HIS RESURRECTION! Well mentioned in

    1Peter 1:3 Blessed be THE GOD and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath

    REGENERATED US

    unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    4Unto an INHERITANCE incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade,

    reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation,

    ready to be revealed in the last time.

    TO BE REVEALED ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD

    THIS IS MENTIONED IN

    1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as he will: and to every seed its proper body. 

    The fact that the Father provided JESUS’ OWN FLESH BODY!

    “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN! 

    Asserted in Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not: but a body thou hast fitted to me:

    Also predicted in Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said:

    God will provide himself a victim for an holocaust, my son. So they went on together.

    THE HOLY GHOST PRODUCED JESUS’ SOUL THE SON OF GOD!

    The fact that the Holy Ghost is BOTH

    THE SOUL OF GOD, and

    THE SOUL OF THE CHURCH!

    The fact also the Jesus BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY GHOST

    WHAT IS FLESH IS FLESH and WHAT IS SPIRIT IS SPIRIT!

    This is pinpointed out in

    luke1:35And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    Notice not ONCE the title FATHER is mentioned since the angel referred to

    THE SON OF GOD!

    I REPEAT: JESUS, THE SON OF MAN SIMPLY GAVE HIS DEAD BODY TO THE HUMAN RACE !  ON HIS RESURRECTION AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

    SIMPLY TO PRESENT US HOLY TO THE FATHER IN HIMSELF! Well clear in

    Colossians 1:22 Yet now he hath reconciled in the body of his flesh through death,

    to present you holy and unspotted, and blameless before him:

    The FLESH AND BLOOD BODY OF THE HUMAN RACE WAS REJECTED BY THE FATHER ON EVE’S SIN, THE MOTHER OF ALL CURSED AND MORTAL FLESH!

    HUMANITY REQUIRED AN ENTIRELY

    NEW FLESH BODY, NOT OF EARTH BUT  OF HEAVEN DIRECTLY FROM THE FATHER FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE FATHER WOULD BE IN THE POSITION TO BE

    OUR FATHER ALSO IN THE FLESH

    ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD! 

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    March 10, 2021 at 12:33 pm#869643
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    We read that the Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of old (1 Peter 1:11).
    This proves that Christ existed at that time, prior to His human existence.

    Hi Danny,

    Some people have trouble taking the bible for what it says.
    Seems preconceived religious indoctrination gets in their way.

    The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
    distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

    ____________
    God bless
    ED J

    March 10, 2021 at 12:45 pm#869644
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    you said:

    It says that he is the Father of all spirits.

    When did He become the Father of the Son? What was He before He became the Father of the Son?

    March 10, 2021 at 12:45 pm#869645
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Thanks for the link, Berean.

    March 10, 2021 at 12:46 pm#869646
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    Where is Jesus’ body right now according to you?

    March 10, 2021 at 12:47 pm#869647
    Ed J
    Participant

    @Jodi

    Jodi, there is no spirit of Christ without Christ.
    The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets of old (1 Peter 1:11).
    So again it is very clear that there is no spirit of Christ without Christ.

    God bless,

    Danny

    Hi Danny,

    They think:
    The “spirit of Christ” is the “spirit of God” instead of the spirit of the son.
    It is sad to see people stray far away from what the bible actually teaches!

    “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made
    of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under
    the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye
    are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts,
    crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but
    a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” (Gal 4:4-7)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    March 10, 2021 at 6:11 pm#869653
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi LU,

    Hope you have had a good day!

    Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    YOU: The above tells me that angels are present at this creation rather than having been created during it.
    There are a few things I could say to challenge your post but, to continue to keep my responses to you brief, I have this challenge…Job 39:4 only tells you that the sons of God existed when the foundations of the earth were laid, not that they weren’t created in between day one and the laying of the foundations of the earth. Before day one, the earth was formless.

    ME:

    LU, that’s not a challenge really, this is more of a challenge I believe, why isn’t their creation mentioned then in the account thereof in Genesis? We have living beings who Jesus likens us to according to the resurrection, who are called Sons of God, but God much rather speak to the creation of herbs than bother to mention them?  Do you have understanding as to why YHVH would leave them out of the creation account, I’d really like to know your thoughts on that?

    The fact that their creation isn’t mentioned at all and they are shouting for joy early on during that creation, I’d have to say that’s a pretty good indicator they were created beforehand.

    When creation is just getting started, things are really picking up, and you see the corner stone being laid, that sounds like a logical point to get excited enough that you feel like shouting for joy, having the great anticipation of what might be created next upon that foundation.

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