Search Members

[Proclaimer]

Your response comes from my comment to Lightenup where he says the Tanakh DOESN’T say The Messiah is to come twice and your response is “logic”?!??! Please enlighten me! The only “logic” needed is what the Tanakh says.

God has a plan. The enemies of God wants to know that plan. But God reveals his plan to his people / the innocent. He doesn’t write it all down so any old person or demon can counter his plans. Even Jesus spoke in parables so the wicked would not understand.

It’s logical to not tell your enemies your battle plan. After all, the Devil had Jesus killed. But he didn’t know what that would do. He didn’t know the plan. But in hindsight, you can see it when you read the scriptures.

[Proclaimer]

I thought this child was to be named “Immanuel” (Isa 7:14) and now his name is “the Jesus.”

In biblical times, a name meant much more than the word used to identify someone. A name could represent a person’s purpose, identity, character, reputation, authority etc.

When the Bible speaks about “the name of Jesus” fir example, it usually means more than simply saying the word Jesus / Yeshua. It refers to who Jesus is, the authority he has and everything he represents.

For example, when Peter said, “In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk”, he was not using Jesus’s name as a magic wand. He was acting under the authority and power of Jesus.

To pray in Jesus’ name also means more than adding those words to the end of a prayer. It means praying as one of his followers and asking for things that agree with his character and will.

So if his name is “God with Us”, then yes, the Father was in Christ, redeeming the world to himself. So the actual sound of the name that he is called is almost irrelevant. It is more about what he represents, and interestingly enough, he came in his Father’s name.

Do not confuse this word with the limited way we use it in English.

[Proclaimer]

If the Word Was God, then that excludes the Father from being God.

If Donald Trump is the president, then Kamala Harris is NOT the president.

If you are someone, then no one else is that someone.

Basic stuff.

And the simple version is correct. The lack of the definite article tells us that the last mention of theos is not talking about The God. Origen said this on the subject:

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article [“the”], and in some he omits it. He adds the article [“the”] to logos, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article [“the”], when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the logos is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article [“the], and theos without it, prevail also between logos with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As God who is over all is theos with the article [“the”] not without it, so also “the” logos is the source of that logos (reason} which dwells in every reasonable creature; the logos which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence “the” logos. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about  religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos (gods), and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny the divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that God on the one hand is autotheos (God of Himself); and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know You the only true God; “but that all beyond the autotheos (God) is made theos by participation in His divinity, and is not to be called simply “the” theos but rather theos. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with God, and to attract to Himself divinity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos (gods) beside Him, of whom “the” theos is “the” theos, as it is written, “The God of gods, the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became (gods), for He drew from God in generous measure that they should be made theos gods, and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true God, then, is ho theos (“the god”), and those who are formed after Him are (gods), images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the ho logos (“the word”) of ho theos (“the god”) , who was in the beginning, and who by being with “the” theos (“God”) is at all times theos (“god”), not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos, if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

[Proclaimer]

Absolutely, so why do you believe the Jesus will come twice?

Logic is one reason.

God brings the law and the law condemns.

God brings grace and forgives those who are repentant.

God works through one flock, the Jews, and they have the law.

God works through another flock, the Church, and they have grace.

God is sovereign. He can unravel his plan as he sees fit.

God sends the Lamb of God that forgives all sin for all time.

Up to us to choose to align with God’s glorious plan or reject it.

[Proclaimer]

I think it is better to have a president who is Christian and believes in God than one who is an Atheist or of a religion that promotes violence. We should pray for our leaders and often God gives leaders over the people depending who they deserve. Sometimes, God even allows captivity and genocide.

[Proclaimer]

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

[Proclaimer]

The Old Testament does not explicitly say the Messiah comes twice. But there appears to be two phases in the prophecies. A suffering and rejection, then later glory and kingship. Judaism generally does not read these as two separate comings of the same Messiah, whereas logically speaking, it would normally take at least two phases.

Rejected

Isaiah 53
The servant is rejected, suffers, is pierced, and bears the sins of many.

Psalm 22
A righteous sufferer is mocked and surrounded by enemies.

Zechariah 12:10
“They shall look upon me whom they have pierced…”

Daniel 9:26
“Messiah shall be cut off, but not for himself…”

Victorious

Daniel 7:13–14
One like a son of man receives everlasting dominion.

Isaiah 9:6–7
A royal child rules on David’s throne with justice and peace.

Psalm 110
The Lord’s chosen king rules at God’s right hand.

Zechariah 14
The Lord comes in victory and reigns as king over all the earth.

So yes, two phases can explain all of it.

[Proclaimer]

No one is arguing that Trump is King Cyrus reincarnated. It goes without question that there will be differences.

[Proclaimer]

@mikeboll64

Do you want to continue this debate?

Perhaps you have seen the error of your ways now?

I hope and pray that you are not pedaling lies anymore.

[Proclaimer]

As far as Trump being chosen by G-d; last I checked G-d wasn’t running the voting machines…man chose Trump.

He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.

Daniel 2:21

[Proclaimer]

Search Warrant: What the Courts Actually Found

[Proclaimer]

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour

[Proclaimer]

Obama to be arrested?

[Proclaimer]

Why Some Believe He Was Sent for the End Times

He also said that God would not show him who this man was, but that the word “gold” was associated with this future president. Further, he said he would be a two term president. When Trump lost the 2020 election, it looked like it wouldn’t be fulfilled.

[Proclaimer]

Lol. No, way off. But I understand that of the 45,000+ denominations that exist, they cover just about every theory and possibility.

But if you delve into the Bible, Daniel and John primarily speak of the empires around the Great Sea. Not empires in other areas of the world.

Why? Because the Bible is focussed around Israel which happens to be in that area.

Yes, there are references to the end of the world etc, but the empires spoken of are in and around the Great Sea which is the Mediterranean Sea.

The doctrine you espouse is incorrect.

The Old Testament is a book that is focussed on the Jews, not the Americans, or the Chinese.

[Proclaimer]

@berean

You need to be careful how you judge things.

What if the USA had a good purpose in God’s plans. If so, calling them the dragon is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (I don’t think), but is heading in that direction.

Some Christians pass harsh judgements on other Christians because they understand them not. Often those that have a calling in God are judged harshly to begin with and eventually people see the truth.

[Proclaimer]

Trump Is Playing a Much Bigger Game Than You Think

[Proclaimer]

The Jesus says, “the person who believes in me will perform the miraculous deeds that I am doing, and will perform greater deeds than these”, now please back up to verse 11, “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me, but if you do not believe me, believe because of the miraculous deeds themselves.”

Fact: About 95 percent or more of English Bible translations use the word “works” in this passage, while only a small minority render it as “miracles” or “miraculous deeds”, mainly the NET Bible and some paraphrased versions. The reason is that the Greek word ἔργα (erga) simply means “works” or “deeds”, so translating it as “miracles” is an interpretive choice that narrows the meaning beyond what the original word explicitly states.

 

 

[Proclaimer]

Concerning your other post about adoption; the adoption narrative is moot and really a waste of time to debate UNLESS you can back up what you are saying with proof, because what you’re presenting is “hear say” and you’re really applying today’s standards of an “adoption” to an event 2000 years ago; did you read the link I gave you, it’s what the Jewish community follows today and seems to align with the Tanakh; so what’s said on the website isn’t new, but comes from old.

It’s not moot or speculation. It is fact.

Jacob adopts Ephraim and Manasseh

“Your two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who were born to you in Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, are mine; Ephraim and Manasseh shall be mine, just as Reuben and Simeon are.”

Here Jacob formally adopts Joseph’s sons as his own, and they become full tribal ancestors of Israel. Their legal status does not fully depend on being Jacob’s biological sons.

Moses becomes Pharaoh’s daughter’s son

“She brought him to Pharaoh’s daughter, and he became her son.”

While not being adopted into a tribe of Israel, Moses is raised as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, showing that formal recognition could establish sonship in a legal or social sense. So this is not restricted to Israel.

Eliezer as Abraham’s heir

Before Isaac was born, Abraham expected his servant to inherit his household in Book of Genesis 15:2 to 3. This reflects the ancient Near Eastern custom that a non biological heir could legally inherit if recognised as the household successor.

But Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will you give me, for I continue childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?”
And Abram said, “Behold, you have given me no offspring, and a member of my household will be my heir.”

Taken together, these examples show that legal sonship and inheritance were recognised concepts in the Old Testament world.

[Proclaimer]

These are the facts:

The Greek wording does not specifically say “miracles”. The immediate context emphasises belief and mission, it’s not miracle competition.

“Greater” (Greek: μείζονα, meizona) in its context is about Jesus’ ministry which was largely confined to Judea and Galilee, but his followers later carried the message across the Roman world. Jesus also said that this age will end when the gospel is preached to all the world. This is certainly greater and understandably so. Jesus was a single person and didn’t have the tools like the Internet or air travel. He was confined to a geographical area. He got the ball rolling so to speak.

The Gospel still presents Jesus’ works as uniquely authoritative, portraying his signs as revealing his divine identity rather than as miracles that ordinary believers would later surpass.

“Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

After all, we are not the Messiah and Son of God. His miracles testified to this.

That said, God can use us to perform miracles, I have seen it first hand. But I am not the messiah. But on pure numbers, this website has reached more people than Jesus reached directly.

[Author]

Posts