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@Admin

i spoke too soon. It’s back to not letting me post on my desktop. Sorry to be that problem child 🙁
I took a screenshot of the response that I got just now:

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@DesireTruth

From my research, it is not uncommon for the wife to have her own tent. A wife needs a lot of closet space after all, haha. Anyway, I tend to lean towards the obvious, Noah was drunk and embarrassed and said the wrong thing. Many families are broken apart from careless words. The tongue is a dangerous part of the body.

Proverbs 12:18 There is one speaking rashly like the thrusts of a sword, and the tongue of the wise ones is healing.

Noah’s tongue cursed his own grandson and his descendants which were also Noah’s descendants. Where is the wisdom in that?

Besides that, I don’t think that Canaan is the fourth son of Ham. Lists of son’s names do not necessarily show birth order. He could have been the only son of Ham at the time and Noah felt hurt by his son, Ham, so Noah cursed Ham’s son in a way that Ham would feel hurt back. It’s a guess.

Moral of the story, don’t get drunk, wake up from being drunk and start cursing your future descendants. Not a smart move for a family!

The people that suggest voyerism, or sodomy, or incest, or castration, or homosexual activity are all trying to find a crime that would justify the curse. If you just accept that the curse was Noah’s careless lashing out after waking from a drunken spree, the passage reads easily. All the immorality is not supported by the Hebrew, especially since Noah uncovered himself. If there was immorality on Ham’s part…Ham would be doing the uncovering of his father.

Does that make any sense to you?

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Thanks Admin, it is working as expected now.

Many Blessings!

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@DesireTruth

Good question, everyone that I have listened to from YouTube has asked a similar question as you, “what did Ham do…”  That seems to be a common question because that curse on Ham’s descendants through Canaan seems pretty over the top.

The thoughts I have are these: perhaps Ham didn’t do anything wrong; maybe Noah had a lapse in judgement and showed poor self-control as he lashed out with an inappropriate curse out of embarrassment?

You ask how Noah would have known that he was seen naked by Ham. Well, Noah woke up with a garment over him that did not belong to him. That was his first clue. He would have noticed what he was wearing or not wearing while he slept, which was his second clue upon waking. Possibly he got word that it was Ham that saw him drunk and uncovered.

He wouldn’t be the first patriarch that lacked wisdom and sound judgement. If it is so, that Noah lashed out unfairly with a curse on his grandson and his grandson’s descendants, well that is something that could cause a huge rift in a family and Ham’s descendants through Canaan may have drifted away from Noah and the extended family for that reason.

As you say, “one of those hidden mysteries.”  Maybe, but it might be pretty straight forward. Noah, the one who had the description as the “Preacher of Righteousness,” got drunk and woke up embarrassed and said some things that he shouldn’t have said which caused a deep wound, leading to division.

This seems to be the most plausible meaning of the text, imo.

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Thanks Admin, I’ll check later when I’m on my desktop computer. I just typically write my post directly into the space provided on the thread.
I appreciate your quick response, LU

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There are a few theories that seem to be popular but none of them are resonating with me. Does anyone here have a theory of their own and can you support it Biblically?

LU

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Hi Admin, you can disregard that last message. I wasn’t able to reset my pw from my desktop but I could by my phone. I still can’t post a message from my desktop though. I still get an error message saying “Forbidden. Sender blacklisted. Anti-Spam by Clean Talk. Any advise?

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@DesireTruth

 1 Chronicles 22:9-10

9‘Behold, a son will be born to you, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies on every side; for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. 10‘He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

This is about Solomon.

2 Samuel 7:12-17 12“When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. 13“He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14“I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men, 15but My lovingkindness shall not depart from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16“Your house and your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.”’”

This is about Solomon.

Joseph names Jesus and is referred to as his parent. That is how we know that Joseph has taken the role of his human father.

LU

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@DesireTruth

In Jewish tradition, naming a child was closely tied to the father’s legal role, and biblical examples show that the act of naming was considered a paternal responsibility that established lineage and identity. Joseph named Jesus. Jesus is Joseph’s legal son and therefore Solomon’s lineage in the legal sense. Mary brings the biological aspect of David to Jesus. Jesus fulfills that requirement. The Messiah was to be born from a virgin. He couldn’t have had a biological father if He was to be born from a virgin. What an amazing fulfillment of prophecy. Scripture never says that the Messiah will come from Solomon’s own body, btw.

LU

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@DesireTruth

If, as you claim, Jesus is a demi-god, half god/half human then, according to your idea, the human side of him would be biologically related to David. Therefore Jesus is a biological descendant of David’s own body even if Jesus was considered a demi-god which I do not agree with. And, being a descendant of David’s own body, he would be a relative to Solomon which the word “son” can merely mean relative even as a distant nephew. Jesus can also be a descendant of Solomon at the same time if he was adopted into the distant family of the royal line and thus qualify for the throne. Jesus is both a biological son of David and a legal descendant of the throne.

LU

 

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@DesireTruth

To say that Mary’s Son isn’t a biological descendant of David because He didn’t have a biological father isn’t reasonable. The child was to be the seed of the woman and from a virgin.

LU

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@Proclaimer

Gen 1:14And God says, “Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens,

It says it right there. The expanse has waters above it and below it.

Regarding your “lol”, your “How about really thinking about the following logic”…

I think this addresses the value of your “logic”:

Matt 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants.

1 Cor 2:14 But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

If your scientists are stumbling over scripture, why are you surprised?

Is not your God that you speak about to your scientists, supernatural? Anything supernatural goes against logic. Are you bowing down to your science book or scripture that is God-breathed and above logic?

I think it is amazing that God made even one sun in 24 hours actually, btw, I have never insisted in 24 hours. I haven’t denied it either, I don’t see the word “hours” anywhere in the Genesis account of creation. The creation account speaks about several evenings and mornings, light and darkness, and days…not one mention of hours. Pay attention to the supernatural aspect of the creation, that would be a better focus, imo, than how many hours it took. You may be the one who is misleading. But thank you for your concern.

LU

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@Proclaimer

The Hebrew word for “sky” in day two is the same Hebrew word for “heavens” in verse one. The form is a dual/plural usually written a collective singular but sometimes is shown plural depending on the verb that is used with it when the word is a subject of a sentence.  You can see that the stars were placed in the expanse that is in the midst of the waters. See a literal translation:

Gen 1:6And God says, “Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.” 7And God makes the expanse, and it separates between the waters which [are] under the expanse, and the waters which [are] above the expanse: and it is so. 8And God calls the expanse “Heavens”; and there is an evening, and there is a morning—[the] second day.

9And God says, “Let the waters under the heavens be collected to one place, and let the dry land be seen”: and it is so. 10And God calls the dry land “Earth,” and the collection of the waters He has called “Seas”; and God sees that [it is] good. 11And God says, “Let the earth yield tender grass, herb sowing seed, fruit-tree (whose seed [is] in itself) making fruit after its kind, on the earth”: and it is so. 12And the earth brings forth tender grass, herb sowing seed after its kind, and tree making fruit (whose seed [is] in itself) after its kind; and God sees that [it is] good; 13and there is an evening, and there is a morning—[the] third day.

14And God says, “Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for appointed times, and for days and years, 15and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”: and it is so. 16And God makes the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary—and the stars—for the rule of the night; 17and God gives them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to rule over day and over night, and to make a separation between the light and the darkness; and God sees that [it is] good; 19and there is an evening, and there is a morning—[the] fourth day.

Who knows exactly what the details about the waters above the heavens are but I wonder if the “living waters” that flow from the throne in heaven has any connection.

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@DesireTruth

Hi, I’ve been busy and will be busy for a couple of weeks for the holidays. I just have time for a couple of comments. I believe that the translation of NASB1995 is the most accurate and is what I use. I also believe that Isa 9:6 should be translated as in the NASB1995:

Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will [fn]rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace,
On the throne of David and over his kingdom,
To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness
From then on and forevermore.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

And finally, you left Christianity two years ago, would you compare yourself to a Pharisee?

LU

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Test

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@Admin

I took a screenshot of what happens when I try to post from my desktop:

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@DesireTruth,

Lost last two posts are screen shots that I took of AI answers to my questions. I am having trouble posting here, an error message keeps popping up and I have to do a work around and send through my email and them post a picture here via my phone. Keep in mind that the last post of mine does not reflect the NSB1995 version and I should have used that one for clarity.

LU

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@DesireTruth

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@Proclaimer

You wrote:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

It was all there before Day 1.

I read the beginning of Genesis as a title or overview of what is to come in the verses that come after the first part of chapter one. For instance, we are told that the expanse called heaven was not made till day two, so therefore, obviously heaven was not there before day two. Also, we are told that earth wasn’t even named earth until after the waters were gathered and dry land appeared and that was day three. Therefore, earth couldn’t have been created before day one if it wasn’t even formed and dry and named earth till day three.

Conclusion, the heavens couldn’t have been created before the expanse was created on day two. The earth couldn’t have been considered ‘created’  until the sea was gathered and dry land appeared on day three.

Regarding “24-hour days” I don’t think that I have stated whether or not I believe in 7–24-hour days. I’m not against the idea that there were 7-24-hour days though.  Think about this, if a day was 1000 years for example, it would take the earth 500 years to turn halfway around on its axis and half of the earth would not have sun for those plants for 500 years.

On the seventh day, God rested from His creating work, it’s not like He took a day off. He is working all the time. Like I said, many Sabbaths have come and gone since creation was finished on day six. The seventh day of creation was the first of many sabbaths that came afterwards even unto this day. We are not still in the seventh day.

Final conclusion, since creation points to a creator according to this passage: Romans 1:20 — No One Has an Excuse
“For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.” (NASB)

Scientists try to explain the creation with natural processes, but God meant creation to show supernatural processes and thus point to eternal power and divine nature.

LU

 

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