@Lightenup,

Was it too much to read?

Soooooooo, you can’t prove the Jesus is The Messiah! I understand, I can’t make you see what you don’t want to see; I can only present it. The reality is, it’s up to you to make the choice and I can attest it’s a hard one…for months I kept what I was finding to myself. Also, you would spend less time lear…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

You keep saying “Prove Jesus is the Messiah” and then narrowing that demand to one point: “He has no biological father, therefore his lineage cannot be traced, therefore he cannot be the Messiah.”

It isn’t just a “single point” where the Jesus fails; this is the beginning point. If the Jesus cannot/does not pass this, he ISN’T The Mes…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

In NONE of what your wrote did you prove the Jesus is The Messiah! I wrote on how the Jesus couldn’t be The Messiah starting with the birth narrative and you respond with criticism of what the Tanakh says, calling what I wrote assumptions; except what would have been the understanding of procreation in the time of Moses? Keep r…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Jesus did not have a biological father.

Then we have a problem! The word for descendant used in the passages concerning David’s throne is “zera”, which means to produce after one’s own kind – making it biological. Did you not read Num 1:2, 18, 2:2, 32; Ezra 2:59? How is tribal lineage determined going all the way back to Moses? You sai…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I didn’t ask about messianic references, as we’ll most likely agree on a fair number of them; I asked to PROVE the Jesus IS the Messiah and to begin with the birth narrative.

Who is the Jesus’ biological father and does this fit with what G-d said concerning tribal lineage and sons being counted with their fathers house (Num 1:2, 18,…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Prove the Jesus is the Messiah! If that cannot be established, everything thing we are talking about is a waste of time. If the Jesus isn’t the Messiah, who cares what the unknown writer of Hebrews says or claims the Jesus is, or how it aligns or doesn’t align with the Tanakh, or if it fits a Messianic prophecy or not.

This takes us…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Point 1. I don’t disagree with at all; upon further study, Davidic kingship can be applied to mean Messianic. Now we roll back to my original question, is the Jesus the true Messiah and can this be applied to him.

Point 2. I agree with what you wrote, you articulated it better than I did; the main idea of what I said is that this c…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I can’t believe I allowed you suck me into this rabbit hole and away from what was originally said, stop wasting time; does Hebrews chapter one claim all that is quoted from the Tanakh is applied to the Jesus or not? If yes, then explain and support it with the Tanakh, not with the writings and musing of man; if no, then rip the b…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

In response to post 948112

No, I’m reading the words written and the words written, don’t match…can’t have the 60+ different interpretations in front of me at all times. I’m comparing your translation of choice (NASB) to the Jewish Study Bible. If you need to justify your belief by using a translation that has fallen into obscuri…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

In response to post 948115, would you like some cheese with your whine?

When you answer every question I ask, then you’ll have grounds to stand on to lecture me! Besides, does reading and comprehension fail you? I originally stated “I initially started a long response to what you said, but abandoned it.” What part of that do you N…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I initially started a long response to what you said, but abandoned it. I will say this in response to what you wrote, in none of your response did you address the core issue; nothing written in Hebrews chapter one is about the Jesus! It’s a twisting of the Hebrew scripture to fit the Jesus.

When have you looked into the Jewish…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

I guess you kind of answered the question of who or what will be rolled up; but who or what is the “they”? If it’s simply heaven and earth as the Psalm says, what is the writer of Hebrews getting at? The Psalm is speaking of G-d lasting longer than HIS creation as HE is eternal AND what does this have to do with the Jesus?

@Lightenup,

The theos of John 1:1b identifies the theos of John 1:1c as the YHWH who laid the foundation of the world and the heavens were the work of His hands and not only that but that as YHWH, this theos who is the Son, will at a future time, fold them up like a garment and they will be changed in Hebrews 1:10-12.
Amazing!

The Jesus is G-d of…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Everything you posted is from a christian perspective; what about the Jewish? Again, it is their scripture; wouldn’t they be the authority on what it says?

@Lightenup,

WOW! Where do I begin with this salad bar of christianity?

You’re demanding that the Messiah fulfill every *end‑time* prophecy in His first appearance, but the Tanakh never says that. Not once. You invented that rule.

And the Tanakh DOESN’T say the Messiah was to come twice; however, your response will be, “but it doesn’t say he wo…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

1. Isaiah 53

Who is speaking where in this soliloquy? One must begin reading at the end of chapter 52, this is where this last “servant song” begins (why was it cut where it was…hmmm). Who is the servant (begin reading in chapter 41)? It’s not the Jesus!! Verse 10 is a tricky one to apply to the Jesus; unless of course one belie…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Proverbs 8 is poetry; quit making it what it isn’t. It’s wisdom personified, given human like qualities (calls, speaks, loves, hates, walks, gives, rejoices, and is “brought forth”), and that’s it! Of course wisdom was there “with” G-d before creation and “saw” everything come to be; wisdom IS G-d and not something separate from HIM…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Jesus is NOT biologically from Solomon’s dynasty, but He IS legally from Solomon’s dynasty through Joseph. Biological descent from David comes through Mary; legal kingship comes through Joseph. The Messiah needs both—and Jesus fulfills both.

You are absolutely 100% correct that the Jesus is NOT biologically from Solomon’s dynasty…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Point 1

Sefaria

Biblehub

The Sefaria link gives the definition of: “to get, acquire, create, buy, possess”; does it say create is one of its meanings??

Clicking the Biblehub link scroll to section 1, sub a. What does that say; “of God as originating, creating” and look, does it say Prov 8:22?!?!!? Are you done beating the dead ho…[Read more]

@Lightenup,

Translations are also becoming an issue; which one are we using or is this the “battle of the translations and mine is more correct than yours”? I use a Jewish to English translation, wanting to stay as close to the original writings as possible; what do you use, is it a translation of a translation?

One of the scriptures I reference…[Read more]