Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,18:16)Lightenup said:Quote Thinker and Keith,The context already has established that the “Word” was there.  The things that came into being are the other things that came into being through the one who was the “Word.”Kathi,It doesn't say “other” things. You're putting words into John's mouth.thinkerIt doesn't…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2009,18:49)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,08:45)NT:2258 h@n en (ane); imperfect of NT:1510; I (thou, etc.) was (wast or were):Kathi,An imperfect tense denotes continuous action does it not?Hi Is,According to this explanation below from http://www.studylight.org there is a difference in the case of the verb “to be” which “was”…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ April 21 2009,17:15)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,08:01)Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,15:06)Lightenup said:Quote Good grief why would God who is complete need a counterpart to reproduce?  Man needs a helpmate, God does not.Kathi,Agreed. Then why do you say that Jesus is the “literal” Son of God? Explain yourself for it…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,15:11)WorshipingJesus said to Kathi:Quote You say that Jesus came into being. John says that nothing came into being without him.Amen! One does not need a degree in rocket science to undertsand such a simple statement.thinkerThinker and Keith,The context already has established that the “Word” was there. The…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,15:23)Lightenup said:Quote BTW, your trinitarian brothers do not seem to agree that the verse we were discussing about the Son being “given” life referred to the ascribing of self-existence.KathiKathi,Jesus did not say that the Father gave “life” to Him. He said that the Father gave Him to “have life IN HIMSELF.”…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,16:44)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 22 2009,08:42)Hi KathiAnd we are typing at the same time again.LOLKeithHi kathiWell not at the same time. But I didnt see your last post when I typed mine. WJVery funny experience Keith. I am glad that is cleared up “Mr. Anonymous?”.Love, K

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,14:44)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,06:31)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,14:22)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,05:09)Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 20 2009,21:00)That's right WJ. And if John's intention was to convey that Yeshua was somehow given life by the Father than this is in direct contradiction…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 21 2009,16:15)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,15:22)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,06:31)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,14:22)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,05:09)Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 20 2009,21:00)That's right WJ. And if John's intention was to convey that Yeshua was somehow given life by the Father…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,15:22)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,06:31)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,14:22)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,05:09)Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 20 2009,21:00)That's right WJ. And if John's intention was to convey that Yeshua was somehow given life by the Father than this is in direct contradiction…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,15:06)Lightenup said:Quote Good grief why would God who is complete need a counterpart to reproduce?  Man needs a helpmate, God does not.Kathi,Agreed. Then why do you say that Jesus is the “literal” Son of God? Explain yourself for it looks like ancient paganism to me. How is Jesus the “literal” Son of God if the…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2009,14:22)Quote (Lightenup @ April 22 2009,05:09)Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 20 2009,21:00)That's right WJ. And if John's intention was to convey that Yeshua was somehow given life by the Father than this is in direct contradiction to what he wrote in the first four verses of the prologue of his gospel (Ch 1, vss…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,13:31)Lightenup said:Quote I believe in a literal Son of God and you don't.  When I started seeing a literal Son of God who existed from before creation, I started to understand the message of the New Testament.  It changed my life 16 years ago.To All,Though I have a great love for our sister Kathi she commits t…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 21 2009,13:06)Lightenup said:Quote I believe in a literal Son of God and you don't.Kathi,Since you believe that Jesus was a “literal” Son then you must accept that God has a penis. Again, you need to cast off your modern, western ideas about sonship in reference to Jesus and start all over again.Self-existence is…[Read more]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 20 2009,21:00)That's right WJ. And if John's intention was to convey that Yeshua was somehow given life by the Father than this is in direct contradiction to what he wrote in the first four verses of the prologue of his gospel (Ch 1, vss 1-4). James White's exposition of this passage is very good, and brings out this point…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ April 07 2009,06:01)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 17 2009,10:28)Quote (Not3in1 @ Mar. 16 2009,16:38)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 17 2009,02:48)Thanks Keith for you very long and thorough post…you are a die hard.Thanks t8 for your defense of one faith.Blessings,KathiHi Kathi,Do you share t8's belief system completely?  Do you and him share “one…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,19:28)Lightenup asked:Quote Thinker,Where does it say that the Father says His Son is self-existent?Hi Kathi,The Father ascribes self-existence to the Son,Quote For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26)Self-existence cannot be given in the sense that it is…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,18:25)Lightenup said:Quote A Son cannot have always existed nor be self-existent otherwise he would not be a son.  If he were not a son but always existed in the past, then he would have no father.  If He always existed, He would not have a father and would not be a son.  Therefore you are the one with the ox…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,13:49)Lightenup said:Quote Thinker,I never suggested that the Son was given self-existence,If self existence was not given (imparted) to the Son, then the Father “gave” (ascribed, or confessed) to the Son what He already had.OZ NEVER DID GIVE NOTHING TO THE TIN MAN,THAT HE DIDN'T, DIDN'T ALREADY…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,12:52)Lightenup said:Quote The Father gave life to the Son, the Son did not always have immortal life if He was given it. Kathi,The Father could not “give” self existence. Come on! It means that the Father ascribed self-existence to the Son. It means that the Father confesses that the Son is self-existent. In the…[Read more]

Quote (thethinker @ April 20 2009,04:45)Quote (Lightenup @ April 20 2009,11:02)Thinker,There is one LORD,one Lord,and many lordsThe distinction is in the context as to whether it is speaking of the Most High, or the Son, or other so-called lords who are not lords at all.I hope that helps,KathiKathi,Christ is either “Lord” or He is not.thinkerHi…[Read more]