Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,13:46)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,05:04)Mike,I didn't say that He was less than “God,” I said less than the Father (as God).  Jesus said, “the Father is greater than me.”  Jesus didn't say that “God is greater than me.”Jesus was the begotten God before He came in the flesh and while He was in the flesh and a…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,13:22)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 13 2010,04:57)Mike,How about choice #3#3 The one born of God first who is the only begotten true son of God Himself, not created nor made but begotten before the ages and all things were created through Him and apart from Him, nothing was created that was created.  He is the only…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 12 2010,13:16)Kathihow do you know that what you say is true??;Not if the one that was caused to exist has the same identical nature, image, and form.  In these ways they are the same…both perfect.and more how you figure that one out;Having the right hand position is an expression of equality in power.this is new ;i use…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,09:57)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,15:18)Mike,1.  We know that Jesus emptied Himself and humbled Himself so that 'greater than' could mean as when 'in the flesh.'  2.  Or it could mean that the one that begat before the ages would naturally be greater in that sense than the one that was begotten.  3.  Aside from…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 12 2010,10:16)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,15:41)Hi Mike,You assume that the term 'firstborn of all creation' is implying that the Son is created.  If I said that so and so was the 'Lord of all creation,' you wouldn't assume that implies that the 'Lord' is created would you?Kathi,”Firstborn of all creation”:1.  The o…[Read more]

Mike,You realize that Eusebius worships the Son as God:Quote 18. History, therefore, does not relate that he was anointed corporeally by the Jews, nor 87that he belonged to the lineage of priests, but that he came into existence from God himself before the morning star, that is before the organization of the world, and that he obtained an immortal…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2010,22:18)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,13:43)No God could be God that wasn't of the divine nature always and besides that God would have to be the creator and not the created.And this is an important point you bring up Kathi.  Jesus IS “the created”.  Jesus said so and so did Paul.  And scripture doesn't say that Je…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2010,22:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 12 2010,13:34)Nor does it say “the Father is greater than I IN EVERY WAY.”But since there was nothing specific mentioned that the Father was greater than him in, I would think the default would be “everything”.mikeMike,We know that Jesus emptied Himself and humbled Himself so that…[Read more]

Hi t8,I'm certainly thankful that this was not the disaster that it could have been! I was listening to Pastor Bill Johnson of Bethel Church in Redding, California last night from the podcast of this weeks sermon entitled “Family Chat” and he had just come back from NZ and was going on and on about NZ. He loves the national anthem there. If you…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2010,21:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 11 2010,12:10)2Pe 1:4For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.Oh boy!  Then WE will be able to be worshipped as God too! Kathi, if…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 11 2010,20:55)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 11 2010,10:18)Pierre,The Father is greater in a sense, for one, the Father was the cause of the Son's begettal, but He is not greater in nature.But that's not what the scripture says Kathi.  It doesn't say “the Father is greater than I……IN SOME SENSES”.mikeHi Mike,You are right,…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 10 2010,22:00)Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 11 2010,19:10)Pierre,Who knows exactly.  We are told that the Son is the exact representation of the nature of God.  So, whatever the Son is in nature, the Father is in nature also.Some verses that mention the nature:Ga 4:8 – However at that time, when you did not know God, you were s…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 10 2010,21:18)LU,Was Mankind not also made in the nature of God?JA,No, man was made with human nature. We were however made in the image of God.

Pierre,Who knows exactly. We are told that the Son is the exact representation of the nature of God. So, whatever the Son is in nature, the Father is in nature also.Some verses that mention the nature:Ga 4:8 – However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of…[Read more]

Pierre,The Father is greater in a sense, for one, the Father was the cause of the Son's begettal, but He is not greater in nature.

Keith,Jesus is whatever a true begotten God from the Father would be.

Keith,I didn't say that He reproduced 'Himself,' that would be impossible. He reproduced another of His nature. There aren't two Fathers, just one Father and one Son.

Keith,I do not believe the Son is inferior to the Father by nature.The Son in a sense does birth sons by the incorruptible seed which is 'the word of God' and that is a re-birth and one that will partake of a divine nature but a re-birth is different than an original birth. Whether or not the Son can produce a direct offspring with an identical…[Read more]

Keith,One thing at a time…You seem to think that 'firstborn of all creation' must mean that the Son is a part of creation and a created being if the term 'firstborn' is meant as if He was first in a sequence. I disagree with that assumption. It could mean that He was the first to be begotten of God to be the foundation for all creation to be…[Read more]

Keith,You have been shown that the early church fathers have spoken of a begetting before the ages, even the creeds say that. In Col 1 the Son is said to be the firstborn of all creation and from the dead so there can be two types of 'births' here, one from the Father before creation and one from death…also there is a birth from Mary. The one…[Read more]