Quote (Baker @ Nov. 04 2010,12:17)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2010,12:33)Irene,Quote Why would Jesus be our Mediator if we can go directly to both and worship both…..He is not needed then….I  only worship Jehovah God……Because of Scriptures likeEphesians 4:6  One God and Father of all, who above all, and through all, and in you all.The w…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2010,15:13)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,09:25)Pierre,I agree with the Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed.  They are both creeds in the Protestant churches that I have gone to.kathiwell you have been ,accepting the catholic creeds raped in a tender rapping paper with acceptable small truths but with one of its…[Read more]

Here is more of what Chrysostom says about there being one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ; Ver. 5. “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, as there are gods many and lords many; yet to us there is one God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and we unto Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom a…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 04 2010,14:25)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,22:06)They both had valid points.  Much like HN.  We will probably see a new creed in our lifetime that takes 'only begotten' out of it entirely.  This will further the evolution away from the original intent as I see it.KathiYour point above shows bias, because the cr…[Read more]

Yeah, I win just kidding…it wasn't so hard to find after all.Quote And this is not all, but there is another remark to make: that if you say, “Because it is said ‘One God,’ therefore the word God doth not apply to the Son;” observe that the same holds of the Son also. For the Son also is called “One Lord,” yet we do not maintain that theref…[Read more]

Keith,I posted a quote from a church father a while back explaining how, when speaking of both the Father and the Son, you would specify one as God and one as Lord so as to not confuse to say there are two Gods or two Lords. Even though each was understood to be both called God and Lord. You agreed with that explanation, do you remember where I…[Read more]

Irene,If you want to say that I worship a trinity because I worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit then I worship a trinity but I do not worship a trinity doctrine which goes beyond acknowledging worship to the Father, the Son and to the Holy Spirit. It is the way the Athanasian Creed defines the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that…[Read more]

Pierre,Quote WJshow me here are the scriptures;were is Jesus equal to his father;;allJn 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. Jn 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you…[Read more]

Thank you Keith!

Quote (david @ Nov. 04 2010,01:24)In the NT, proskyneo DOES NOT always mean “worship.”Here is one example where it can't possibly mean “worship.”Proof:  Mark 15:19″Also, they would hit him on the head with a reed and spit upon him and, bending their knees, they would do obeisance to him.” (NWT)”They kept beating His head with a reed, and spitting…[Read more]

Pierre,I agree with the Apostle's Creed and the Nicene Creed. They are both creeds in the Protestant churches that I have gone to.

Irene,I am not reading what the early church fathers preached in sermons but instead, I am reading their writings. They mentioned the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit many times and so does the Bible, not always side by side but the three names are throughout the NT. That fact alone doesn't equal the trinity doctrine, does it?Also, you said…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 03 2010,15:37)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2010,14:28)Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 02 2010,15:36)Kathi, I see no big deal in it, people hate it when I say this, but if someone chooses to worship Jesus, Who am I to judge ? That means I would also have to judge the millions of people who also worship Jesus, but I will give my opinion…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 03 2010,19:54)Kathi:Quote Mike,The punishment for the Jews who were confessing Christ was the 'putting out of the synagogue:Oh that's all?  I thought Stephen was stoned to death and Paul was on his way to Damascus with arrest warrants.Kathi:Quote The decision to kill Jesus wasn't till a while later after Jesus raised…[Read more]

Mike,The punishment for the Jews who were confessing Christ was the 'putting out of the synagogue:Quote 20 His parents answered them and said, “We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; 21 but how he now sees, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know. Ask him; he is of age, he will speak for himself.” 22 His parents…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,16:42)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Yes, I can tell their goal was not to come to unity but to divide.  The creeds should seek to bring clarity to scripture, not seek to divide those who are seeking.  That is where they went wrong…their motive, imo.KathiHow can you judge their motives? Is it only w…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,16:42)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Yes, I can tell their goal was not to come to unity but to divide.  The creeds should seek to bring clarity to scripture, not seek to divide those who are seeking.  That is where they went wrong…their motive, imo.KathiHow can you judge their motives? Is it only w…[Read more]

Irene,you said:Quote kathi! I only know that the Catholic Creed says All three Father Son and Holy Ghost..The creed also is a Catholic creed, so they believe in the trinity, so I have no idea what you are talking about….The creed says all three and that is why it is the trinity. I don't know how far back you are talking about the early fore…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,18:03)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Keith,The reference that I have says that monogenes is made up of Strong's #3441 and #1096.  You used #1085 which may be related but #1096 is a verb and #1085 isn't and it is #1096 that is part of monogenes and not #1085.Quote NT:3439 monogenh/$ monogenes…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 03 2010,06:59)This info really should end this back and forth arguing if this is true:”In that culture, a dignitary's adult son was deemed equal in stature and privilege with his father. The same deference demanded by a king was afforded to his adult son. The son was, after all, of the very…[Read more]