Hi Mike,(This post is in reference to Mike's last post here.)Quote Why?  Do you have the Greek mss of those writings?  Would we be able to see when they say “Jesus is god” that it wasn't a case where the indefinite article should be added?  If not, then why bother?  Because we would only be reading Trinitarian ENGLISH translators words.  What woul…[Read more]

Hi Karmarie,Well, I don't know who he is 'just asking' but I will put down my answers.Quote “if Jesus is ETERNALLY GOD, then what was he when he EMPTIED HIMSELFand came as MAN?”Well, He emptied Himself of His riches in heaven and became poor. He emptied Himself of His recognition due Him as the Begotten God. He emptied Himself of His…[Read more]

Mike,Maybe we should have a thread in the 'other writings' section about the ante-nicene church fathers understanding of John 1:1. How about it?Quote Anyway, assuming it is anarthrous, what does it mean? I think all of us except for Keith will agree that an anarthrous theos in 1:1c does not mean the Word was THE God he was with. I know that you…[Read more]

Good Mike

Hi Mike,The 'perfect' in Heb 8:5 means:to bring to an end, to complete, perfect.A good translation to help clarify this says:GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)After he had finished his work, he became the source of eternal salvation for everyone who obeys him.Can you see that? It is not about his nature. The same Greek word is in Hebrews 7…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 28 2011,19:35)Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 28 2011,14:17)I know also that MANY trinitarians are leaving the idea that Christ was Son before His incarnation because it doesn't make any sense.Hopefully, they will continue this trend and leave the trinity doctrine altogether, for not one bit of it makes any sense.…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 28 2011,17:43)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2011,16:49)You take that true relationship away and you have not a literal son but a figurative son.  I believe the true relationship of Father/Son is monumental and a central teaching of the gospels.Hi KathiSo what you are saying is unless one is “a literal son” then one can…[Read more]

Keith,You said:Quote This is where I have a problem with your theology. You are implying that Jesus “became” fully God when he came into existence as the Son.I am not saying that He came into existence as a Son, the Father always, always, always contained the essence of the Son, at one point before creation, that essence of the Son was born. He…[Read more]

Keith,My last post to you was being written in response to your third to last post. I was in the midst of writing it when you added your last two posts which I did not see, fyi.Kathi

Yes Keith, I disagree with that. It was the power that is linked to the resurrection, not the Sonship.Also, I disagree…and so do other church fathers, btw, about those who believe that the Son did not become the Son till after creation, so do the main Christian creeds. I even once showed you a council that said those who believe in such a way,…[Read more]

Keith,Also, Jack believes that the Son had a beginning because there was a time when He was not the Son. I think he believes that the Word didn't have a beginning, but as the Son, the Son had a beginning. From what I can tell anyway. You do have different Jesus' because His Jesus wasn't a Son till the resurrection, your Jesus was always…[Read more]

Keith,I believe that Jesus is fully God because He is the son and fully man. I do think that is what many of the forefathers believe also, the part about Jesus being God because He is the Son of God. His relation to the Father as a true Son is what makes Him what the Father is. You take that true relationship away and you have not a literal son…[Read more]

Jack,Do you think that Jesus was as powerful before the resurrection as He was after the decree?Sorry, didn't mean to sound patronizing. I do think that it is strange how you and Keith come off as one trinitarian voice when you understand a different Jesus than he does.

Keith,Do you think that God, the unbegotten is the same one as God, the begotten? If not, then you have two. The oneness is in their essence and how they act as one mind. Therefore you can say, for us there is one God, the Father, the unbegotten God and one Lord, Jesus Christ, the begotten God. Would you say that last sentence would be correct…[Read more]

Hi Jack,I know that you realize you understand it very differently than most of orthodox christianity and I have to go by what I believe God showed me regarding the light. I know that God brought the firstborn into the world when the firstborn became a man. He was an incarnated earthly son to God then and before that He was God's heavenly Son,…[Read more]

Mike,About your dog analogy…I was thinking that if you used the word 'canine' it would be a little more compatible as an example. For instance…In the beginning was the word, the word was with the canine, the word was canine. The 'the' is necessary, the 'a' would not be. I wouldn't capitalize canine because our language doesn't have a…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 28 2011,11:18)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2011,20:08)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2011,15:15)KathiI find it amazing that like Mike you also use “Trinitarian” quotes to prove the opposite of their conclusions.The next page of your source says (emphasis mine)…Chapter 8.—Whatever is Spoken of God According to S…[Read more]

Mike,Jesus was tempted according to the flesh, not according to His perfect God nature. Also, Jesus died according to His flesh and not according to His perfect God nature. One is God of the other but that doesn't mean one is perfect and the other isn't as perfect otherwise the other wouldn't be perfect at all.As far as Jason, if he doesn't deal…[Read more]

MikeQuote Because there is only ONE God Most High. And if that God beget another god who is IDENTICAL, then we now have TWO Gods Most High. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………..what does MOST mean again?One God most high…unbegottenOne God most high…begottentogether they act as one mind.Can you conceive of the Son and Father as being perfect and more…[Read more]

Mike,What does your Greek guy say about the 'the' in part b?