Pierre,1. I never said that the Son was the light on day four, I was talking about the light of day one.  If you are going to correct me on what I write, please read what I write carefully.2.  Col 1:15, you use the correct translation of 'over all creation.'  Jesus is also called “Lord of all.”  Neither one of those verses say that He was cre…[Read more]

Pierre,Where does scripture say that, “the Son is the first of His creation?”You are changing scripture to fit your bias, imo.Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 15 2012,10:11)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 14 2012,13:22) Quote (mikeboll @ 64)Anyone who has ever existed, except for God Himself, is a creation of God.Another point of view:  Anyone who has ever existed, except God the Father and God the Son together with their Holy Spirit, is a creation of THEM.Now if you could only find a…[Read more]

Mike,you said:Quote How does one who is the image OF another also BE that other?You still haven't understood that trinitarians or myself are speaking of more than one person, both who are God by nature, united as one also by nature, a perfect nature. If one perfect being begats another perfect being, naturally they would be the same nature and…[Read more]

Mike,I do admire how you can have so many conversations going on at one time and keep everyone's perspective straight, some of the time anyway. In this case, you forget that I do agree that the Son of God was born first (and last for that matter). So nothing I have said is contrary to that. Even see that understanding in what I said in my last…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 14 2012,18:14)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 11 2012,16:02)Hi Marty,I appreciate your time, really.  Something that I don't believe you understand is that…BECAUSE Jesus is the Son of God, that is why He is also God like His Father.  Together with their Holy Spirit, they are united as one God to us.  Perfect Father begat perfect So…[Read more]

Mike,Quote Show me how the NETNotes scholars deductively reasoned from actual grammatical proof that 1:15 is a genitive of subordination.I did, I showed you what the scholars said in the NET notes and you know that His Father is God, the Father, creation is NOT His Father… Now, do you have a scholar that says how it 'can't' be the 'genitive of…[Read more]

Mike,The words 'my only begotten son' means that Jesus was begotten as an offspring, not a creation. It is your bias that attests to Him being a creation, not scriptures.Quote Anyone who has ever existed, except for God Himself, is a creation of God.Another point of view: Anyone who has ever existed, except God the Father and God the Son…[Read more]

Mike,It is the words “My ONLY BEGOTTEN SON” that prohibits Him from also being a creation. When the Father said, “My ONLY” He didn't mean “My first.”Kathi

Bump

Sorry Keith for that news. I read your fb post. I will pray for your decisions as you seek treatment for your wife. Cancer can be beat…God can heal anything. I'm glad you have each other during this time.God bless,Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 07 2012,14:06)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 05 2012,22:46)Mike,The Greek word translated as 'came out' is:exerchomai: to go or come out ofShow me where anything was said to 'exerchomai' from God besides His Only Begotten Son.The word “exerchomai” derives from “ex”.  And it is “ex” which is used in the following verse:1 Cor 8:6…[Read more]

Hi Marty,I appreciate your time, really.  Something that I don't believe you understand is that…BECAUSE Jesus is the Son of God, that is why He is also God like His Father.  Together with their Holy Spirit, they are united as one God to us.  Perfect Father begat perfect Son.  Together they create, and save, and show wrath, and rule, etc.  Th…[Read more]

Well, this must have been quite a surprise while waiting on a plane! There is hope when Jesus' name is proclaimed! Enjoy!!Kathi

My youngest son was present in this crowd with about 42,000 college kids just within the last few days.  These kids are our future and the future is bright!  How Great is Our God!Gen 18:2222Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, while Abraham was still standing before the LORD. 23Abraham came near and said, “Will You indeed swe…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,21:15)Kathi,By that logic, EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE is a “part of God”.  All things came “out from thee”, despite your unsubstantiated wish that they didn't.I am a literal son who was begotten and born, and I'm ALSO a creation.  Why do you think this wouldn't also apply for Jesus?Kathi, Jesus was “brought forth i…[Read more]

Hi toby,Do you believe that Jesus pre-existed His birth in Mary? If so, what was His name before He came as a man through Mary? I believe that His name was Jehovah like His Father although He was not His Father…He was Jehovah, the Son.8But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER I…[Read more]

Mike,I will gladly let it go since your argument proves nothing. That Jehovah in the OT is sometimes the Son, sometimes the Father and at other times the unity of both. So, I will go study more about where Jehovah is the Son in the OT. I think that I made a thread for that but it is a database and not for discussion.Kathi

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 05 2012,18:10)Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 03 2012,21:40)Jesus called His Father the only true God and Jesus knows that He is a part of that only true God as God the Son.   In what scripture is it said that Jesus is a “part of the only true God”?  What scripture tells you that Jesus “knew this”?  It seems to me that Jesus kn…[Read more]

wakeup,The kjv was translated from manuscripts that were not the oldest manuscripts. The older ones are more reliable and have differences with the kjv..Kathi