Worship God the Father only?

[dee]

Hi Joanna. Welcome. That is the way that I see it too.

Kindly,
Dee (Davina)

[shimmer]

Hi Jo and Hi Dee…. Welcome to Heaven net

[mikeangel]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 16 2010,14:09)

Hi: We do have the following scripture: Quote Hebrews 1:6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. But also, the word worship is used in the following scripture: Quote Revelation 3:7And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Love in Christ, Marty

These are excellent scriptures. Also, the first day of the week after he was risen, Jesus appeared to Mary M, It said she did him homage at his feet. I worship Jesus, I worship the Jesus that is present with me now by the holy spirit. I worship God the Father. I also love and adore, pay homage to, ponder, yearn for, and beg for all to manifest completely and destroy evil and fix this crazy world. They will also dispel all confusion and misunderstandings. I can't wait. Peace and love-Mark

[Proclaimer]

Quote (OneDay @ Nov. 16 2010,16:18)

Hello !  GOD THE FATHER        l           l        l           l JESUS THE MESSIAH        l           l        l           l  TRUE BELIEVERS All are “One” – However Believers are not – God the Father, Jesus the Messiah is not –  God the Father Worship and serve – God the Father – Is what Jesus the Messiah has said. Is the way I see it. Is that right ? ~JOANNA~

Yes that is right.
We can all be one, but one in spirit.
We are still unique identities even though we can all be one.

[Baker]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,16:46)

Welcome Joanna. Jesus told us to worship the Father.  It is who we have religious faith in as our Lord that should get our worship.  The Father is Lord, Jesus is Lord, not two from different essences but the same essence.  Let your faith lead you in how you respond and understand the idea of worship. No one has to tell people to worship money…it is something within us that leads us towards who we are religiously devoted to, some are motivated by spiritual faith, some are motivated by flesh. There are vast examples of the Messiah receiving worship and commending those followers for their 'faith in the NT,' the emphasis is not on commending those for their obedience when they bowed down to Him, it was for their faith. There are also passages in the OT that illustrates worship or religious bowing down to the Messiah.  The Father and the Son are both of one and the same essence.  Jesus said that if you believe in the Father, believe also in Him. I hope you enjoy it here.  Tell us about how you found Heaven Net. Blessings to you, Kathi/Lightenup/LU

Kathi! You again quote LORD and Lord wrong. Jesus Lord is not in capital letters jet Jehovah God is…..Hat is a big difference……When it says that God the Father is above all, why don't you believe that? When it says that there is none beside Me, why don't you believe that? When by Jesus own words He said, My Father is greater then I, why don't you believe that? You are going against the first commandment. The great Commandment.
I have put up those Scriptures befiore, so yioun should know them..,..,.Irene

[Baker]

Quote (OneDay @ Nov. 16 2010,16:18)

Hello !  GOD THE FATHER        l           l        l           l JESUS THE MESSIAH        l           l        l           l  TRUE BELIEVERS All are “One” – However Believers are not – God the Father, Jesus the Messiah is not –  God the Father Worship and serve – God the Father – Is what Jesus the Messiah has said. Is the way I see it. Is that right ? ~JOANNA~

Welcome, and yes, you are right to worship our Heavenly Father, an not Jesus our Messiah….these are good Scriptures that has taught me, not to

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1Cr 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.

Deu 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he [is] God; [there is] none else beside him.

Deu 6:4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

Peace Irene

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,12:52)

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 15 2010,06:25) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 14 2010,09:26) theodorej, I was wondering if these 2 Psalms 47 and 48 were Messianic, I will have to look further but I saw a commentary indicating that they are talking about Jesus. Psalm 47 God the King of the Earth. For the choir director. A Psalm of the sons of Korah.    1O (A)clap your hands, all peoples;         (B)Shout to God with the voice of joy.    2For the LORD Most High is to be ©feared,         A (D)great King over all the earth.    3He (E)subdues peoples under us         And nations under our feet.    4He chooses our inheritance for us,         The glory of Jacob whom He loves. Selah.    5God has ascended with a shout,         The LORD, with the sound of a trumpet.    6Sing praises to God, sing praises;         Sing praises to our King, sing praises.    7For God is the King of all the earth;         Sing praises with a skillful psalm.    8God reigns over the nations,         God sits on His holy throne.    9The princes of the people have assembled themselves as the people of the God of Abraham,         For the shields of the earth belong to God;         He is highly exalted. Psalm 48 The Beauty and Glory of Zion. A Song; a Psalm of the sons of Korah.    1Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised,         In the city of our God, His holy mountain.    2Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth,         Is Mount Zion in the far north,         The city of the great King.    3God, in her palaces,         Has made Himself known as a stronghold.    4For, lo, the kings assembled themselves,         They passed by together.    5They saw it, then they were amazed;         They were terrified, they fled in alarm.    6Panic seized them there,         Anguish, as of a woman in childbirth.    7With the east wind         You break the ships of Tarshish.    8As we have heard, so have we seen         In the city of the LORD of hosts, in the city of our God;         God will establish her forever. Selah.    9We have thought on Your lovingkindness, O God,         In the midst of Your temple.    10As is Your name, O God,         So is Your praise to the ends of the earth;         Your right hand is full of righteousness.    11Let Mount Zion be glad,         Let the daughters of Judah rejoice         Because of Your judgments.    12Walk about Zion and go around her;         Count her towers;    13Consider her ramparts;         Go through her palaces,         That you may tell it to the next generation.    14For such is God,         Our God forever and ever;         He will guide us until death. Do you understand these Psalms as being about the Messiah? Thanks theodorej! Greetings Kathi…..When I speak of Apostolic Christianity this is an aged term that describes what we would recognize as messianic Jewery today…The Psalms were written by the quentessential messianic Jew.. .King David…the beginning of the progenery of Jesus and a man after Gods' own heart….King David was a worldly man who sinned greviously and sought forgivness in a humble sincere and contrite way as so described in many of his psalms…The messiah Jesus will rule from the throne of david and establish his government on this earth….All the Psalms have a messianic message by virtue of their author… Hi theodorej, Thanks for your reply.  Would you say that in this Psalm, that the Messiah is called 'God' and 'Lord?'

Greetings Kathi…..I would think when you examine the Psalms you must keep in mind that Davids' focus was on the Eternal…The God of Abraham….Jesus hails from the house David….

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 12 2010,05:47)

What I have found is during this time the Romans were Polytheist and worshipped many gods, and in fact they worshipped Caesar as a god. So it is not uncommon that they would be worshipping Jesus as a “King” in a mocking way for they worshipped their King.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,20:33)

Hi Keith, You kind of skimmed over the fact that two different words were used for what the soldiers did to Jesus – and one of them has nothing to do with “God-Worship”.   Do you think Matthew thought the soldiers mocked bowing to a king, but Mark thought they mocked worshipping him as a god?

Mike

John’s account doesn’t tell us either they bowed or worshipped him in mockery, so what does your point prove? Should we negate Matthews and Marks account because he doesn’t say they bowed or worshipped? Mathew says they bowed and mocked him, Mark says they not only bowed but they also worshipped him and mocked him. So should Johns or Matthew’s account negate Marks account though he gives us more detail?

Besides what makes you think that bowing to Jesus and saying “Hail to the King” in mockery was not mocking worship? Is bowing the knee also a part of worship?

This is what AT Robertson says about the saying “Hail King of the Jews”….

They came (hrconto). Imperfect middle of repeated action, ““they kept coming and saying” (elegon) in derision and mock reverence with Ave (caire, Hail!) AS IF TO CAESAR. Note o basileu (the king) in address. They struck him with their hands (edidosan autwi rapismata). Imperfect of didwmi, repetition, “they kept on giving him slaps with their hands.” See on Matthew 18:22 for this use of rapisma.

Since we know that the Romans worshipped the Caesar then we know they were mimicking the worship of the King of the Jews.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,20:33)

And “God-worship” is the term I've come up with to distinguish the uses of “proskuneo”.  By “God-Worship”, I mean paying homage to something or someone as if they were Jehovah God Himself – or any other thing or person that one would worship as his “god” or one of his “gods”.  That could be angels, demons, men, goats, idols, whatever.  So if someone is performing “God-Worship” to an idol, he is worshipping the idol as if he thinks it is a god who can hear or help him.  Get it?

Yea Mike I get it, but you don’t. Worship is worship regardless as to what type of worship it is. The scriptures reveal there is “false worship”, “True Worship”, “vain worship”, “mocking worship”, “idol worship”, “man worship”, “angel worship” all using the same word “proskuneo”, and in every case it was done in the NT to an Angel, or man of God, by a follower of Jesus it was discouraged by the recipient yet not once in all the times Jesus is worshipped by others for divine acts does Jesus say “do not worship me but worship God only”.

Why didn’t Jesus once say give worship for this miracle to the Father and him only? Why do you deny this fact Mike? How do you explain this?

Peter discouraged it, the Angels discouraged it, why not Jesus?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,20:33)

So, back to whether the soldiers were “God-Worshipping” Jesus.  You say they worshipped their emperor as a god.  Yes, that is true.  Would they have worshipped any other king as a god? In order for your research to pay off for you, Jesus would have had to claim he was Caesar himself.  For Caesar is the only king the soldiers would have worshipped.  So if Jesus had claimed that he was the Emperor of Rome, then I could see the soldiers mock God-Worshipping him.  But since the soldiers would never God-Worship any other king besides Caesar, then they would also not mock God-Worship them.

HaHaHa Mike, nice try. They knew that Jesus was the only King of the Jews and the Jews did not recognize their Caesar as their King. So they are mocking the Jews also in their worship of their so-called King. Where do you think “Hail King of the Jews” came from? It was the term they used in their worship of their god, “Hail to the Caesar”. See AT Robertson above.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,20:33)

You see Keith, you have gone long and far serching out any possible way for “proskuneo” to have meant “God-Worship” in the Mark account.  But it is not even “proskuneo” that Matthew uses to describe the same exact action.  So that right there makes it clear that, at least according to Matthew, the soldiers were NOT mocking “God-Worship” before Jesus.  And since “proskuneo” can mean either action, then we have a dilemma.  Either the scriptures are broken and two inspired writers have totally differed in their accounts of an event………or the use of “proskuneo” by Mark was not meant to convey “God-Worship”.  One of these things is possible, and the other is not.

The problem you have is Mark says they both “bowed down” and “worshipped him”! How is it that you think Matthew erases Marks account?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,20:33)

Well, I've listed three CLEAR occasions in the NT when it wasn't God-Worship.  And I've pointed out that the one time Jesus was knelt down before, the Pharisees were watching.  Do you know the charge the Pharisees finally had to settle with to have Jesus killed?

Yep, because Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and that God was his personal Father! To the Pharisees that meant he was claiming equality with God. The worship that was done to Jesus by his followers and those who were miraculously touched by him only supported the Jews belief that Jesus was making that claim, so they crucified him. The greater sin was his claim to be equal to God, which they could sell to the Romans to have him crucified for it was a capitol offence to claim any other earthly man as their King or their God other than the Caesar. Quiet clear actually!

WJ

[Lightenup]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 16 2010,08:06)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2010,16:46) Welcome Joanna. Jesus told us to worship the Father.  It is who we have religious faith in as our Lord that should get our worship.  The Father is Lord, Jesus is Lord, not two from different essences but the same essence.  Let your faith lead you in how you respond and understand the idea of worship. No one has to tell people to worship money…it is something within us that leads us towards who we are religiously devoted to, some are motivated by spiritual faith, some are motivated by flesh. There are vast examples of the Messiah receiving worship and commending those followers for their 'faith in the NT,' the emphasis is not on commending those for their obedience when they bowed down to Him, it was for their faith. There are also passages in the OT that illustrates worship or religious bowing down to the Messiah.  The Father and the Son are both of one and the same essence.  Jesus said that if you believe in the Father, believe also in Him. I hope you enjoy it here.  Tell us about how you found Heaven Net. Blessings to you, Kathi/Lightenup/LU Kathi! You again quote LORD and Lord wrong.  Jesus Lord is not in capital letters jet Jehovah God is…..Hat is a big difference……When it says that God the Father is above all, why don't you believe that?  When it says that there is none beside Me, why don't you believe that?  When by Jesus own words He said, My Father is greater then I, why don't you believe that? You are going against the first commandment.  The great Commandment.   I have put up those Scriptures befiore, so yioun should know them..,..,.Irene

Irene,
I know that you think that Jesus is not called LORD but I do think He was/is, Jehovah the Son. We simply disagree. I have faith that the Son of God was referred to as Jehovah (LORD) in the OT at times.

If you think that I break the first commandment by including the Son in my worship towards the Father, why don't you think that you break the commandment when you bow down to the Son? Do you bow down to Him as a worldly king or a heavenly king and Lord whom you believe in? Or maybe you will never bow down to Jesus, just thank Him a lot?

Phil 2:10-11
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
NASU

I worship Jesus to the glory of God the Father…it is by faith, not because of commandments that I worship Him.

[Lightenup]

Hi Ted,
You said:
Greetings Kathi…..I would think when you examine the Psalms you must keep in mind that Davids' focus was on the Eternal…The God of Abraham….Jesus hails from the house David….

Do you think that the Jehovah that talked with Abraham was the Word of God in form of a man? Genesis 18

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2010,06:50)

Hi Ted, You said: Greetings Kathi…..I would think when you examine the Psalms you must keep in mind that Davids' focus was on the Eternal…The God of Abraham….Jesus hails from the house David…. Do you think that the Jehovah that talked with Abraham was the Word of God in form of a man? Genesis 18

Kathi….Iam not sure there was an apparition,but I have no doubt that the spoken word of the Eternal is the same voice that spoke to Abraham as well as Moses…..

[Lightenup]

Ted,
What you call 'apparition' the early church father's called a theophany.

Theophany: an appearance of God in visible form, temporary and not necessarily material. Such an appearance is to be contrasted with the Incarnation, in which there was a permanent union between God and complete manhood (body, soul , and spirit) (Cross, The Oxford Dictionary Of The Christian Church).

Do you think that the Word of God had a distinct mind from the Father?
http://www.georgefox.edu/academics/undergrad/departments/religion/students/glossary.html

[shimmer]

To all,

People used to worship, but Jesus said their Father was the Devil.

Also was said…

Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees…..If one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar…..These are clanging cymbal's……Without natural affection…….Wells without water, clouds driven by a storm……Leading astray if possible, even the elect.

The only true form of worship is spirit and truth.

God loves a broken and contrite heart.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2010,16:30)

Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,02:05) Quote AND IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THIS HE SAYS “I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE”. If another person who knows better, misapplies this scripture again, my head is going to explode. David, Don't explode, seek to understand: John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Leviticus 24:16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death. David it is as if you do not want to try to understand this: “In that culture, a dignitary's adult son was deemed equal in stature and privilege with his father. The same deference demanded by a king was afforded to his adult son. The son was, after all, of the very same essence as his father, heir to all the father's rights and privileges–and therefore equal in every significant regard. So when Jesus was called “Son of God,” it was understood categorically by all as a title of deity, making Him equal with God and (more significantly) of the same essence as the Father. That is precisely why the Jewish leaders regarded the title “Son of God” as high blasphemy.” http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sonship.htm Can you disprove what is italicized?

I wonder what happened to David? This is an excellent point Kathi!  

“In that culture, a dignitary's adult son was deemed equal in stature and privilege with his father. The same deference demanded by a king was afforded to his adult son. The son was, after all, of the very same essence as his father, heir to all the father's rights and privileges–and therefore equal in every significant regard. So when Jesus was called “Son of God,” it was understood categorically by all as a title of deity, making Him equal with God and (more significantly) of the same essence as the Father. That is precisely why the Jewish leaders regarded the title “Son of God” as high blasphemy.” Source  

WJ

[theodorej]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 17 2010,07:24)

Ted, What you call 'apparition' the early church father's called a theophany. Theophany: an appearance of God in visible form, temporary and not necessarily material. Such an appearance is to be contrasted with the Incarnation, in which there was a permanent union between God and complete manhood (body, soul , and spirit) (Cross, The Oxford Dictionary Of The Christian Church). Do you think that the Word of God had a distinct mind from the Father? http://www.georgefox.edu/academics/undergrad/departments/religion/students/glossary.html

Kathi….. The word of God is an intricate part of the God being….just as our voice is a function of our being and a means to communicate….

[942767]

Hi:

Equality with God may have been something that was understood of the elder son in the Hebrew culture, but Jesus said He could do nothing of himself, and so, denying that he was equal with the Father. He also stated that the Father was greater than himself.

Quote

John 5:18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Quote

25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi:

Also, if that was Hebrew culture, for the eldest son to be considered equal with the Father, then maybe that is what is meant by Phillipians in the following scripture:

Quote

Phil 2:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,17:55)

Hi: Also, if that was Hebrew culture, for the eldest son to be considered equal with the Father, then maybe that is what is meant by Phillipians in the following scripture: Quote Phil 2:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

i think that it is more Jesus being spiritual with the people being carnal,and not understanding anything,
and so make up what the want ,so they can kill him.

Pierre

[942767]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 17 2010,11:03)

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,17:55) Hi: Also, if that was Hebrew culture, for the eldest son to be considered equal with the Father, then maybe that is what is meant by Phillipians in the following scripture: Quote Phil 2:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Love in Christ, Marty Marty i think that it is more Jesus being spiritual with the people being carnal,and not understanding anything, and so make up what the want ,so they can kill him. Pierre

Hi Pierre:

I thought that the Pharisees had misunderstood him when they stated that he was saying that he was equal with God because he said that He was the Son of God, but it may be that they thought this because of their culture, but no, he made it clear that he was not equal with God, and in Phillipians 2 he was in the form of God as God's Christ, but the scripture states that he rather took on the form of a servant, and became obedient even unto death on the cross.

Phillipians 2:6 is a verse which is most often used to support Pre-existence which I believe is a misunderstanding of scripture.

Anyway, I am still studying and trying to gain understanding, and if I am wrong in any thing that I teach, I want to be corrected.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,19:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 17 2010,11:03) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2010,17:55) Hi: Also, if that was Hebrew culture, for the eldest son to be considered equal with the Father, then maybe that is what is meant by Phillipians in the following scripture: Quote Phil 2:6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Love in Christ, Marty Marty i think that it is more Jesus being spiritual with the people being carnal,and not understanding anything, and so make up what the want ,so they can kill him. Pierre Hi Pierre: I thought that the Pharisees had misunderstood him when they stated that he was saying that he was equal with God because he said that He was the Son of God, but it may be that they thought this because of their culture, but no, he made it clear that he was not equal with God, and in Phillipians 2 he was in the form of God as God's Christ, but the scripture states that he rather took on the form of a servant, and became obedient even unto death on the cross. Phillipians 2:6 is a verse which is most often used to support Pre-existence which I believe is a misunderstanding of scripture. Anyway, I am still studying and trying to gain understanding, and if I am wrong in any thing that I teach, I want to be corrected. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

do not mix what Jesus says and what Paul said,

look wen Jesus says he was the son of God,was it not written in the book of Geneses that Adam was the son of God?he was a man.

they had become so carnal that they only cared about themself,and were blinded to any spiritual knowledge.

Pierre

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