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Hi W,
You say
“The Spirit of God proceeds from the Father. How can he enliven the Father and Son? “Does the Father lose His Spirit by pouring it out on His creation?
Jl 2
“28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. “
No God is never separate from His Spirit which proceeds, not has proceeded [as with Christ] from Him.
Hi w,
You say
“Notice you don’t see the title Father here either. What did he see? He saw the Glory of GOD, AND JESUS on the right Hand of GOD.”Jesus told us who God is. he did not say God was a trinity but said God is the FATHER.
Jn 8.54
” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”Quote We will also be like Christ and Christ is like God.
In fact Jesus is the image of the invisible God.
He is the image.
He is not the God that he is reflecting and declaring.HE IS THE IMAGE OF GOD.
We are MADE in the image of God.We are the bride, he is the bridegroom.
BTW: We are not marrying God, rather the son of God.
It is even written that no one can see God and no one has seen him. To think that God died, ate fish, marries his bride is silly. Such a person has no understanding that God is beyond us. You can't go up to God and shake his hand. There is an unimaginable scale of difference between us and God and it is very human to shrink God down to our size or make something with our own mind, understanding, or hands as God.But the reality is that we will see Jesus, the image of God. He will be the greatest revelation of God that we will get. Jesus Christ sitting on the Fathers throne, with the glory of God emanating through him and the river of life proceeding from the throne.
The invisible God, our Father and Jesus Father dwells in creation by his Spirit. He also exists outside of creation.
The trinity doctrine mocks God for scripture says that no one has seen God and no one can see God's form. We can only see his glory.
So we should quit with vain imaginations about God dieing and God being raised from the dead.
The truth is the son of God died and was resurrected. The son of God is whom God sent to save us.
Yes we honour/worship the son of God. We honour him not as God, but the son of God, the Word of God, the Wisdom of God, the Power of God, and the Lamb of God.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”BTW: you quoted the following:
Rev 5:11-14
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.In context we can see that God is being worshipped/honoured as God, and the Lamb as the lamb. Not the lamb as God as some teach.
Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”T8
Nice to talk to you again.
You say…
Quote We will also be like Christ and Christ is like God.
In fact Jesus is the image of the invisible God.
He is the image.
He is not the God that he is reflecting and declaring.HE IS THE IMAGE OF GOD.
We are MADE in the image of God.So you really believe there is no difference in the Only Begotten Son and the Sons of God?
Jesus is the express image, the exact copy of God. Do you know any sons of God that can say “If you have seen me then you have seen the Father?You say…
Quote We are the bride, he is the bridegroom.
BTW: We are not marrying God, rather the son of God.
It is even written that no one can see God and no one has seen him. To think that God died, ate fish, marries his bride is silly. Such a person has no understanding that God is beyond us. You can't go up to God and shake his hand. There is an unimaginable scale of difference between us and God and it is very human to shrink God down to our size or make something with our own mind, understanding, or hands as God.Why do you guys go off in these tangents that Trinitarians somehow believe that God died and ate fish. Jesus the man died and ate fish. But Jesus was not just a man. Jesus is the Word that was with God and was God and took on human form to offer his body for the salvation of the world. God was in the Flesh….
You say…
Quote But the reality is that we will see Jesus, the image of God. He will be the greatest revelation of God that we will get. Jesus Christ sitting on the Fathers throne, with the glory of God emanating through him and the river of life proceeding from the throne. The invisible God, our Father and Jesus Father dwells in creation by his Spirit. He also exists outside of creation.
The trinity doctrine mocks God for scripture says that no one has seen God and no one can see God's form. We can only see his glory.
Jn 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].Jesus is what the Father wants us to see of himself. He is God in the flesh. And so the Father would have us to honor and worship the Son as we do him. We were made by him and for him, Jesus, not the Father. This is scriptural.
You say…
Quote So we should quit with vain imaginations about God dieing and God being raised from the dead. The truth is the son of God died and was resurrected. The son of God is whom God sent to save us.
Yes we honour/worship the son of God. We honour him not as God, but the son of God, the Word of God, the Wisdom of God, the Power of God, and the Lamb of God.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”BTW: you quoted the following:
Rev 5:11-14
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.In context we can see that God is being worshipped/honoured as God, and the Lamb as the lamb. Not the lamb as God as some teach.
Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”How can you make a distinction here. One throne with One God being worshipped the Father and the Lamb
“And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.”
Quote Hi W,
You say
“The reason you don’t see the Holy Spirit is Obvious, the Spirit is invisible and the Spirit was in Stephen testifying of our Lord Jesus. The ministry of the Holy Spirit is primarily to testify of Jesus.”So the Holy Spirit is not in heaven?
Are you speaking of the Spirit of God here or the Spirit of Christ?Is God invisible?
“Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:1 Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.Hebrews 11:27
By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.So if the invisible God was seen in vision here why was not the invisible Spirit seen too?
NH
The Invisible God was not seen, the Glory of the invisble God was seen in Jesus.
The Spirit, the Comforter, the Spirit of God, The Spirit of Christ, Gods Spirit was in Stephen. Is there a difference.
One God – Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
You never answered my question.
Who else but God could recieve Stephens Spirit?
Quote Hi w,
You say
“Notice you don’t see the title Father here either. What did he see? He saw the Glory of GOD, AND JESUS on the right Hand of GOD.”Jesus told us who God is. he did not say God was a trinity but said God is the FATHER.
Jn 8.54
” 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:”NH
Maybe you should explain that to Stephen. Because as he was dying for his faith he didnt call on the Father did he?
Hi w,
You ask
“How could anyone but God answer Stephens prayer “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”?”A typical greek trinitarian question.
Logic is not helpful compared with scriptural truth.Your logic is.
Stephen called to Jesus.
So Jesus must be God.Very thin logic.
Stephen is a branch of the vine that is Jesus.
Jn 14
“1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
If Jesus was God why would he tell us to believe not only in God but himself?
Stephen went to be with his Lord just as Lord Jesus said he would.Hi W,
You say
“The Spirit, the Comforter, the Spirit of God, The Spirit of Christ, Gods Spirit was in Stephen. Is there a difference.”
No, except that God still is replete with His Spirit after pouring it into Christ and thence into us.Hi w,
You say
“One God – Father, Son and Holy Ghost”then who is the SON OF GOD who was sent into the world?
1jn 4
” 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.
Quote Hi w,
You ask
“How could anyone but God answer Stephens prayer “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”?”A typical greek trinitarian question.
Logic is not helpful compared with scriptural truth.Your logic is.
Stephen called to Jesus.
So Jesus must be God.Very thin logic.
Stephen is a branch of the vine that is Jesus.
Jn 14
“1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
If Jesus was God why would he tell us to believe not only in God but himself?
Stephen went to be with his Lord just as Lord Jesus said he would.Typical Arian response.
Meditate on these words. “ye believe in God, Believe also in me”
Why, Because my Father and I are ONE. ONE God!
Quote Hi w,
You say
“One God – Father, Son and Holy Ghost”then who is the SON OF GOD who was sent into the world?
1jn 4
” 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.”
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.
The Son of God is the one born of the virgin Mary concieved by the Holy Spirit, the MAN Christ Jesus.The Word made Flesh. He who is God came in the flesh.
“He who is God came in the flesh.” and this one you're speaking of died for us.
“Art not thou from of old, O LORD, my holy God? Thou diest not!” (Hab. 1:12, AT; NW; Mo; Ro)
“You do not die.” Heb., lo’ ta·muth′. This was the original reading, but the Sopherim (scripture copyists) changed it to read lo’ na·muth′, “we shall not die”; T, “your word [Aram., mehm·rakh′] will stand (endure) to times indefinite.”
In the margin of certain Hebrew manuscripts of the Masoretic text there are notations that read: “This is one of the eighteen emendations of the Sopherim,” or similar expressions. These emendations (corrections) were made with good intentions because the original passage appeared to show either irreverence for God or disrespect for his earthly representatives. Following is a list of the Eighteen Emendations of the Sopherim, according to Gins.Int, pp. 347-363: Ge 18:22; Nu 11:15; 12:12; 1Sa 3:13; 2Sa 16:12; 20:1; 1Ki 12:16; 2Ch 10:16; Job 7:20; 32:3; Ps 106:20; Jer 2:11; La 3:20; Eze 8:17; Ho 4:7; Hab 1:12; Zec 2:8; Mal 1:13.HABAKKUK 1:12
“Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.” (NW)God Almighty, king of eternity does not die. Jesus died for our sins.
Quote Meditate on these words. “ye believe in God, Believe also in me” Why, Because my Father and I are ONE. ONE God!
The people that quote the “I and the Father are one” should also know that Jesus said went on to say that he and his followers were one, just as he and the father is one. (John 10:30; 17:22; See Rom 12:5)
“ye believe in God, believe also in me…”
I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in God's spirit. But I also believe a lot of other things. Of course we should believe in the one whom God sent. Over and over again, we are told that God “sent” Christ, his annointed one, the one he annointed. We are also told over and over that Jesus words came from the father. Jesus represented his Father while on earth. Of course we are to believe in him. If we deny him, we deny the Father. But this in no way neccesitates Jesus being God Almighty.david
Hi W,
You say
“Meditate on these words.
“ye believe in God,
Believe ALSO in me”TWO
as
One.Not one in being because Jesus is the SON OF GOD
“Why, Because my Father and I are ONE. ONE God!”
No,
not one and the same,
but
Father and Son in eternal unity from the Jordan.Hi w,
You say
“He who is God came in the flesh”
But Scripture says
2jn
” 7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. “Quote He who is God came in the flesh.” and this one you're speaking of died for us. “Art not thou from of old, O LORD, my holy God? Thou diest not!” (Hab. 1:12, AT; NW; Mo; Ro)
“You do not die.” Heb., lo’ ta·muth′. This was the original reading, but the Sopherim (scripture copyists) changed it to read lo’ na·muth′, “we shall not die”; T, “your word [Aram., mehm·rakh′] will stand (endure) to times indefinite.”
In the margin of certain Hebrew manuscripts of the Masoretic text there are notations that read: “This is one of the eighteen emendations of the Sopherim,” or similar expressions. These emendations (corrections) were made with good intentions because the original passage appeared to show either irreverence for God or disrespect for his earthly representatives. Following is a list of the Eighteen Emendations of the Sopherim, according to Gins.Int, pp. 347-363: Ge 18:22; Nu 11:15; 12:12; 1Sa 3:13; 2Sa 16:12; 20:1; 1Ki 12:16; 2Ch 10:16; Job 7:20; 32:3; Ps 106:20; Jer 2:11; La 3:20; Eze 8:17; Ho 4:7; Hab 1:12; Zec 2:8; Mal 1:13.HABAKKUK 1:12
“Are you not from long ago, O Jehovah? O my God, my Holy One, you do not die.” (NW)God Almighty, king of eternity does not die. Jesus died for our sins.
Quote
Meditate on these words. “ye believe in God, Believe also in me”Why, Because my Father and I are ONE. ONE God!
The people that quote the “I and the Father are one” should also know that Jesus said went on to say that he and his followers were one, just as he and the father is one. (John 10:30; 17:22; See Rom 12:5)
“ye believe in God, believe also in me…”
I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe in God's spirit. But I also believe a lot of other things. Of course we should believe in the one whom God sent. Over and over again, we are told that God “sent” Christ, his annointed one, the one he annointed. We are also told over and over that Jesus words came from the father. Jesus represented his Father while on earth. Of course we are to believe in him. If we deny him, we deny the Father. But this in no way neccesitates Jesus being God Almighty.david
Hi David
Again you confuse the humanity of Christ with his Eternal Spirit.
Jesus the man died. Not the Word, the Eternal life John speaks of.
Jesus said he that lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you know anyman alive in the flesh today that heard and believed those words?
So the Spirit when it is born again, never dies. Since Jesus was and is that Eternal life who was with the Father, his Spirit did not die on the cross.
I Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that ***eternal life***, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)Lk 23:
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.Matt 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.Eph 4:
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)Quote Hi w,
You say
“He who is God came in the flesh”
But Scripture says
2jn
” 7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. ”Was the Word God NH?
Was the Word made flesh?
I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
2jn
” 7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ (the Word)is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.Quote Hi W,
You say
“Meditate on these words.
“ye believe in God,
Believe ALSO in me”TWO
as
One.Not one in being because Jesus is the SON OF GOD
“Why, Because my Father and I are ONE. ONE God!”
No,
not one and the same,
but
Father and Son in eternal unity from the Jordan.Believe as you will!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 10 2006,21:45) Quote Hi w,
You say
“He who is God came in the flesh”
But Scripture says
2jn
” 7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. ”Was the Word God NH?
Was the Word made flesh?
I Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
2jn
” 7For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ (the Word)is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Hi W,
Indeed.
But not God Himself.
He was with God HimselfPhil 2
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 11 2006,01:04) Quote Hi w,
You ask
“How could anyone but God answer Stephens prayer “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”?”A typical greek trinitarian question.
Logic is not helpful compared with scriptural truth.Your logic is.
Stephen called to Jesus.
So Jesus must be God.Very thin logic.
Stephen is a branch of the vine that is Jesus.
Jn 14
“1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
If Jesus was God why would he tell us to believe not only in God but himself?
Stephen went to be with his Lord just as Lord Jesus said he would.Typical Arian response.
Meditate on these words. “ye believe in God, Believe also in me”
Why, Because my Father and I are ONE. ONE God!
Nah, W. Because the Father sent him.Deut 18:15f and John 3:15f
- Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I WILL REQUIRE [it] OF HIM.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.- Jhn 3:14 And as MOSES LIFTED UP THE SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must THE SON OF MAN be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son OF GOD.Quote Nah, W. Because the Father sent him. Deut 18:15f and John 3:15f
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I WILL REQUIRE [it] OF HIM.
Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.Jhn 3:14 And as MOSES LIFTED UP THE SERPENT in the wilderness, even so must THE SON OF MAN be lifted up:
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For GOD so loved the world, that HE gave HIS only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son OF GOD.Hi Cubes
Every Son of God has been sent by God, but none can recieve thier sprit when they die. Especially being that many on this forum believe that when you die your spirit goes back to God.
- Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
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