What does it mean that Jesus came in the flesh?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ June 16 2014,12:27)

Mike, Quote This point confuses me, because Solomon said the dead are conscious of nothing at all.  David and others taught that the dead can no longer worship God or praise Him.  (Psalm 6:5, 88:10, etc.) It is hard to understand as “dead” can be dead bodies, spiritually dead, those that have died the first death, or those who have died the second death.  Sometimes we can eliminate some of those by the context.

Thanks for your input and scriptures, Kerwin……. but I shouldn't have even brought that point up in this discussion – since it involves people who HAVE died. And Enoch didn't die – so all of that stuff I brought up is of no importance to THIS discussion. Oops…….

Pierre, let's start at the beginning:

Genesis 5
23 Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. 24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

Keep in mind that Enoch walked faithfully with God. Keep in mind that Enoch's father lived to be 962, and Enoch's son lived to be 969.

Are you telling us that you believe God sent Enoch to Sheol with 600 years less life than his father and son had, because he was such a faithful servant of God?

For all of Enoch's good and faithful service, God decided to end his life early? Is that what you're saying?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ June 15 2014,12:02)

Mike you view kills the scripture Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Enoch and Elijah are not Christ and cannot be the first ,

For Elijah or Enoch to have been “the first”, they would have had to DIE, Pierre. If they never actually DIED, then there is no contradiction about them being the firstborn FROM THE DEAD, right?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2014,06:46)

Quote (terraricca @ June 15 2014,12:02) Mike you view kills the scripture Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, Enoch and Elijah are not Christ and cannot be the first , For Elijah or Enoch to have been “the first”, they would have had to DIE, Pierre.  If they never actually DIED, then there is no contradiction about them being the firstborn FROM THE DEAD, right?

mIKE

so what you saying is that both of those men were perfect and without sin because if they have sin and are not descendant from Adam so they should not die the dead of the flesh that is ;

all have to die ALL FALL SHORT OF GOD'S GLORY .

NOW IF YOU SAY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CHANGED FROM FLESH INTO A SPIRITUAL BODY THIS WOULD MEAN THAT THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE GLORY OF THE SAINTS AND THIS CAN ONLY BE OBTAIN WHEN THE NUMBER IS COMPLETE (MEANING ALL HAVE APPEARED ,)

AND SINS JESUS AND ALL HIS SAINTS WHERE NOT EVEN NEAR SO IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THAT TO HAPPEN RIGHT

SORRY FOR THE CAPITAL LETTERS I AM NOT ANGRY

[kerwin]

Mike,

I understand but Ecclesiastes 9:5 has me puzzled as nothing seems to fit.

[mikeboll64]

I think 9:5 is a GENERAL statement – like many of Solomon's proverbs are also GENERAL in meaning (as opposed to absolutely concrete in every instance).

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

1.  No, I am not saying Elijah and Enoch were perfect, and without sin.

2.  There is no scripture that says ALL MEN HAVE TO DIE.  Death is GENERALLY the result of sin……. but there are exceptions.  Even Jesus said some of them would NOT taste death before seeing the kingdom of God.

3.  As far as your statement about “glory of saints”, and a “complete number”, I don't know what you're talking about.  But I do know that God can do anything He wants to do.  So if God wanted to take Elijah and Enoch straight from earth to heaven, who could have stopped Him? Who is it that will tell God that He “broke the rules”?

You didn't actually answer the question I asked you, Pierre.  Do you think that God rewarded Enoch for being such a faithful servant by KILLING HIM?  YES or NO?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2014,07:55)

I think 9:5 is a GENERAL statement – like many of Solomon's proverbs are also GENERAL in meaning (as opposed to absolutely concrete in every instance).

Mike,

I will add that idea to my considerations. Thank you.

[Ed J]

Hi Kerwin,

Ecclesiastes is about the man under the sun.
It focuses is on the flesh rather than the spiritual.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Ed,

It may well be about the body but the conclusion of Ecclesiastes is the duty of man is to serve God.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2014,07:59)

Pierre, 1.  No, I am not saying Elijah and Enoch were perfect, and without sin. 2.  There is no scripture that says ALL MEN HAVE TO DIE.  Death is GENERALLY the result of sin……. but there are exceptions.  Even Jesus said some of them would NOT taste death before seeing the kingdom of God. 3.  As far as your statement about “glory of saints”, and a “complete number”, I don't know what you're talking about.  But I do know that God can do anything He wants to do.  So if God wanted to take Elijah and Enoch straight from earth to heaven, who could have stopped Him?  Who is it that will tell God that He “broke the rules”? You didn't actually answer the question I asked you, Pierre.  Do you think that God rewarded Enoch for being such a faithful servant by KILLING HIM?  YES or NO?

Mike

Quote

You didn't actually answer the question I asked you, Pierre. Do you think that God rewarded Enoch for being such a faithful servant by KILLING HIM? YES or NO?

yes I did answer that question but not with a yes or no,

because of the wording you using : KILLING HIM;

take a look I have answered it ,

I do not put God's power in question ;but God does things in a certain order not like a maniac ;

and God does not lie ,scriptures says “is no more ” means is dead according to the flesh ,not found among the living ,per ups his body was like Moses disposed by the angels so no one could find it ;scriptures do not say;

you also did not answer my questions in my quote why

your #2; a)1CO 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

if all die in Adam ;what is the “ALL” stand for

and “all will be made alive through Christ ” WHAT IS THE “ALL” STANDS FOR ; IS NOT ELIJAH AND ENOCH PART OF THE “ALL”

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ June 18 2014,14:03)

Ed, It may well be about the body but the conclusion of Ecclesiastes is the duty of man is to serve God.

You bet!

[Wakeup]

Quote (terraricca @ June 18 2014,14:11)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 18 2014,07:59) Pierre, 1.  No, I am not saying Elijah and Enoch were perfect, and without sin. 2.  There is no scripture that says ALL MEN HAVE TO DIE.  Death is GENERALLY the result of sin……. but there are exceptions.  Even Jesus said some of them would NOT taste death before seeing the kingdom of God. 3.  As far as your statement about “glory of saints”, and a “complete number”, I don't know what you're talking about.  But I do know that God can do anything He wants to do.  So if God wanted to take Elijah and Enoch straight from earth to heaven, who could have stopped Him?  Who is it that will tell God that He “broke the rules”? You didn't actually answer the question I asked you, Pierre.  Do you think that God rewarded Enoch for being such a faithful servant by KILLING HIM?  YES or NO? Mike Quote You didn't actually answer the question I asked you, Pierre.  Do you think that God rewarded Enoch for being such a faithful servant by KILLING HIM?  YES or NO? yes I did answer that question but not with a yes or no, because of the wording you using : KILLING HIM; take a look I have answered it , I do not put God's power in question ;but God does things in a certain order not like a maniac ; and God does not lie ,scriptures says “is no more ” means is dead according to the flesh ,not found among the living ,per ups his body was like Moses disposed by the angels so no one could find it ;scriptures do not say; you also did not answer my questions in my quote why your #2; a)1CO 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. if all die in Adam ;what is the “ALL” stand for and “all will be made alive through Christ ” WHAT IS THE “ALL” STANDS FOR ; IS NOT ELIJAH AND ENOCH PART OF THE “ALL”

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

God took enoch;He did not kill him.
Enoch wrote the book AFTER he was taken,not before.
The angels guided him, and told him to write down what he saw.

Elijah was also taken by God;he did not kill him.
Elijah is not dead;and so is Enoch.

wakeup.

[Wakeup]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 15 2013,02:25)

Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 14 2013,11:56) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 14 2013,11:09) Hi Wakeup:' You say: Quote He was made flesh, by birth,the only begotten of God. Born by the *WILL* of God. *Now only* is he the Son of God; *Now only* is God his father,and his God. For he was made as his brethren/the Son of man/the Son of David. So, the Word was made flesh by birth, that is to say when the Word, Jesus, was born of the virgin Mary?  And he was not the Son of God as the Word but became the Son of God when he was born of the virgin Mary? And you say: Quote In the BEGINNING was the word. *BEGINNING* because that's when the Word *BEGINS* To create. Please show me where the scriptures state that the Word begins to create.  Thanks. Love in Christ, Marty Marty. In the beginning was the Word. Before the BEGINNING; the word was not used to create. Before the beginning the Word was not uttered by God. But was in God;but the creation has not commenced. wakeup. Hi Wakeup: While it is true and is scriptural that God created everything by His Word, and when he began to create, this Word, or plan was already established, and He knew from the beginning what He was going to do with what he was going to create and what He was going to do with His creation, humanity, and He Knew what He was going to say to humanity through those serving Him, angels, prophets, Jesus, and whatever else was in his plan in reconciling humanity to Himself, that is not what you said initially, but you said that “the Word began to create”, indicating that Jesus, whom you say is the Word, is the creator. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty.

IN THE BEGINNNG.
The beginning of creation, God was there,creating.
Using His speech he created all things. With the breath of His mouth created He all things. God's breath is alive.
There was nothing before the beginning ;but God,and His breath in Him.
And God is a spirit.

wakeup.

[GeneBalthrop]

Wake up…….. Marty's point is you believe Jesus is the word doing the creating. DO YOU?

Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

[Wakeup]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2014,05:23)

Wake up…….. Marty's point is you believe Jesus is the word doing the creating. DO YOU? Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene

Yes I do.
And that same Word was made flesh.
God's own living Word was made flesh.
And He dwelled amongst men.
The spirit of God is in him in full measure.
Therefore is He the express image of God.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 19 2014,00:50)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 19 2014,05:23) Wake up…….. Marty's point is you believe Jesus is the word doing the creating. DO YOU? Peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene Yes I do. And that same Word was made flesh. God's own living Word was made flesh. And He dwelled amongst men. The spirit of God is in him in full measure. Therefore is He the express image of God. wakeup.

w

because of your believe that is against the scriptures you will never come to the truth of God ,it does not matter what you do ;this will remain until you accept the truth in scriptures ,

this is why your quotes are so evasive ,and not supported by scriptures ,and that you quote scriptures to give them a twisted meaning ,

but this is your making not me,Mike or anyone else but YOU ,

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2014,21:11)

and God does not lie ,scriptures says “is no more ” means is dead according to the flesh ,

That is only YOUR opinion, Pierre.  The words, “Enoch was no more BECAUSE God took him“ do NOT tell us that Enoch was no more because God caused him to DIE, Pierre.

You can think that if you want to………. but I'm quite sure you'll be alone with that understanding.

God did NOT reward Enoch's faithful service by causing him to die prematurely.  What kind of message would that send to God's faithful servants?  

Do good works, and God will make sure you die young!

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2014,21:11)

you also did not answer my questions in my quote why your #2; a)1CO 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. if all die in Adam ;what is the “ALL” stand for and “all will be made alive through Christ ” WHAT IS THE “ALL” STANDS FOR ; IS NOT ELIJAH AND ENOCH PART OF THE “ALL”

I did answer it in my #2.  Note the big word GENERALLY………

But I will expand on my answer, so you can understand it:

1 Corinthians 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet.”

Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

So did God LITERALLY put EVERYTHING under Christ?  Or VIRTUALLY everything?

Here's another:

John 21:17
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things………”

Matthew 24:36
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”

So, does Jesus LITERALLY know ALL things?  Or does Jesus know VIRTUALLY all things?

Pierre, there are certain EXCEPTIONS to most of the GENERAL rules of the scriptures.  It is true that VIRTUALLY all human beings die as a result of Adam's sin.  But there are exceptions.  

2 Kings 2:1
When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Pierre, where did Elijah go?  To Sheol?  Or to heaven?

See?  There are exceptions to virtually every rule.

[terraricca]

Mike

Quote

God did NOT reward Enoch's faithful service by causing him to die prematurely. What kind of message would that send to God's faithful servants?

Jesus died a 33 years old , was he not the greatest faithful servant ;

Phil 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

Phil 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Phil 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Phil 4:12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.
Phil 4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Col 2:2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ,
Col 2:3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Col 2:4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

you may argue that Enoch was not there when Paul was there but it does not change the mystery of God ,does it

tell me was not ,according to scriptures part of that mystery yes he was because he was a prophet to it ,

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

i do not reject the fact that he went up to heaven ;what i say is that he died as a man of flesh ; FOR FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT HEAVEN “AND SO HIS SOUL WAS TO BE GIVEN A PLACE TO WAIT THE TIME OF THE RETURN OF CHRIST , JUST LIKE THE SAINT AD TO DO , 1Co 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

AND JESUS CHRIST IS THE DOOR ;

WHEN GOD AS DECIDED THAT YOU HAVE SERVED HIM WELL AND YOUR WORK IS DONE THEN WHAT IS THEIR YET TO DO BUT GO AND WAIT ;UNDERSTAND THAT ENOCH LIVED IN THE PRE FLOOD ERA AND IT WAS NOAH THAT WAS CARRIED THROUGH THE FLOOD ,NOT ENOCH ,

OUR PURPOSE IN LIFE IS WHAT ALL IS VANITY EXCEPT ONE THING ,SERVE THE TRUE GOD AND LOVE HIM , ANYONE THAT HAS COME TO THAT UNDERSTANDING IN HIS HEART DEEP DOWN THEN HE DOES NOT LIVE FOR HIMSELF BUT FOR OTHERS AS PAUL SAYS SO NICELY , THIS LIFE IS NOT THE LIFE A TRUE BELIEVER WANTS , EVEN ENOCH KNEW THAT THE EARTH WAS CURSED ,HE KNEW THAT THEIR WAS OTHER THINGS TO COME ,AND NOT IN HIS LIFE TIME ,

HEB 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.

2Co 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,
2Co 1:22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

HE DIED ;AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION ;WHY WOULD HE OBTAIN THE WITNESS ;;that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.IF HE WOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN THE FLESH???

SURE HE WAS TAKEN UP LIKE ALL THE FAITHFUL ARE TAKEN UP ;AND WAIT ;

2Co 1:8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life.

WHY WOULD GOD LET PAUL GO THROUGH ALL THIS

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ June 19 2014,12:53)

Mike Quote God did NOT reward Enoch's faithful service by causing him to die prematurely.  What kind of message would that send to God's faithful servants? Jesus died a 33 years old , was he not the greatest faithful servant ; Phil 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— Phil 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, Phil 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Phil 4:12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. Phil 4:13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength. Col 2:2 My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, Col 2:3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col 2:4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. you may argue that Enoch was not there when Paul was there but it does not change the mystery of God ,does it tell me was not ,according to scriptures part of that mystery yes he was because he was a prophet  to  it , 2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. i do not reject the fact that he went up to heaven ;what i say is that he died as a man of flesh ; FOR FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT HEAVEN “AND SO HIS SOUL WAS TO BE GIVEN A PLACE TO WAIT THE TIME OF THE RETURN OF CHRIST , JUST LIKE THE SAINT AD TO DO , 1Co 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. AND JESUS CHRIST IS THE DOOR ; WHEN GOD AS DECIDED THAT YOU HAVE SERVED HIM WELL AND YOUR WORK IS DONE THEN WHAT IS THEIR YET TO DO BUT GO AND WAIT ;UNDERSTAND THAT ENOCH LIVED IN THE PRE FLOOD ERA  AND IT WAS NOAH THAT WAS CARRIED THROUGH THE FLOOD ,NOT ENOCH , OUR PURPOSE IN LIFE IS WHAT ALL IS VANITY EXCEPT ONE THING ,SERVE THE TRUE GOD AND LOVE HIM , ANYONE THAT HAS COME TO THAT UNDERSTANDING IN HIS HEART DEEP DOWN THEN HE DOES NOT LIVE FOR HIMSELF BUT FOR OTHERS AS PAUL SAYS SO NICELY , THIS LIFE IS NOT THE LIFE A TRUE BELIEVER WANTS , EVEN ENOCH KNEW THAT THE EARTH WAS CURSED ,HE KNEW THAT THEIR WAS OTHER THINGS TO COME ,AND NOT IN HIS LIFE TIME , HEB 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. 2Co 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 2Co 1:22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. HE DIED ;AND YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION ;WHY WOULD HE OBTAIN THE WITNESS ;;that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.IF HE WOULD NOT HAVE DIED IN THE FLESH??? SURE HE WAS TAKEN UP LIKE ALL THE FAITHFUL ARE TAKEN UP ;AND WAIT ; 2Co 1:8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. WHY WOULD GOD LET PAUL GO THROUGH ALL THIS

Terricca……..Good post, I also believe Enoch Died. You brought out some very good points brother.

Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

[kerwin]

Gene,

He denies the true meaning of certain words and instead puts his desires in them. He understands those same basic words in other places.

Hebrews 11:5
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

5 By faith Enoch was translated — not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to — that he had pleased God well,

Luke 2:26
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

26 and it hath been divinely told him by the Holy Spirit — not to see death before he may see the Christ of the Lord.

“not to see death” is in both passages and yet T chooses to believe it two different ways because he does nit want to believe Enoch did not die.

translated = changes and in the change that occurs when the last trumpet sounds.

[Author]

Posts