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Quote (2besee @ Oct. 26 2013,22:46) All, “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”
This is talking about the spiritual person v the carnal person. Most people know that.
Irenaeus on the verse (2nd century)
https://studylight.org/his….nf01-63Enjoy!
2besee………..AMEN , AMEN< Brother, you have it right IMO.peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 23 2013,15:46) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 14 2013,14:28)
Wakeup,You cannot touch spirit.
According to you God made Jesus' flesh out of that which cannot be touched and Jesus soul out of the soul of this thing you call the word. Do I understand you correctly.
Kerwin.The Word of God is **SPIRIT**(not flesh).
He was made flesh,and was named *JESUS*.*(after his birth)*.*(after his birth)*(after his birth).JESUS WAS *NOT* *NOT* MADE FLESH.
BUT THE *WORD* *WORD* WAS MADE FLESH.
FROM A *SPIRIT* BEING; INTO A *FLESH* CREATURE,AND HIS NAME IS CALLED JESUS.(after his birth).wakeup.
Wakeup,So the answer is yes, I understand you correctly?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,22:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2013,07:49) Kerwin, Please address this part of a recent post from me to you:
And what about Judges 13:16, that they listed? Does the fact that the angel who came to Manoah REFUSED to eat mean he WAS a “spirit”, and therefore NOT made of “spiritual flesh”?
This is why I say you're adding your own imaginations into the scriptures, Kerwin. Surely I couldn't use 13:16 to prove that angels AREN'T flesh – just because that one refused to eat, right? So how can you prove that angels ARE flesh just because some of them DID eat?
Mike,Quote And what about Judges 13:16, that they listed? Does the fact that the angel who came to Manoah REFUSED to eat mean he WAS a “spirit”, and therefore NOT made of “spiritual flesh”? It means nothing except that Manoah did not persuade, or possibly even try to persuade, the angel to change his mind and that the angel did not eat.
I plan on doing more research on the angel that visited Manoah.
Mike,I have now read the whole event as recorded in the AKJV of chapter 13 of judges and see no solid evidence to say whether or not the angel was corporeal or not. The best evidence I saw is that the angel was perceived to be a human whose features were that of an angel. That is an inference of Scripture and therefore merely circumstantial evidence and of insufficient amount to make a solid case, as non-corporeal creatures(spirits) can be seen.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,18:32) The bottom line is these same net scholars translated spirit to ghost, and ghosts neither eat or can be touched. I quoted plenty of experts who made the point that Jesus proved he was not a spirit.
This is what AKJV says ” And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered” so according to it the disciples did not believe and wondered. Your examples does not use the same pattern. The correct pattern would be “While they did not yet believe the Cardinals won the game because of the joy and were wondering, they were told look at the scoreboard.” if we replace wondering with amazed we get “While they did not yet believe the Cardinals won the game because of the joy and were amazed, they were told look at the scoreboard.”
You use the same technique you accuse Ed of using and are using it at this time by claiming “they did not yet believe ” means “they did not yet believe” because of their reason for not believing.
Kerwin……….You are right also brother. Jesus is Not a Spirit of any kind not when he was on this earth and not now either, He is exactly as he was resurrected a flesh and bone human being Just as he said he was, and He will return to this earth as a SO of MAN just as he said he would. “when the SON of MAN returns , will he find faith on the earth” So it appears it was a, “Son of Man” who left the earth in a cloud, and it will be a “Son of Man”, who will return to this earth in cloud also. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 26 2013,03:57) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2013,11:25) Wakeup,
Spirits do not have flesh and bone.
Is Jesus a spirit?
Jesus has flesh and bone after his resurrection.
Therefore Jesus cannot be a spirit.
He was made a little lower than the angels for a time. He was then taken up to the place where flesh and blond cannot inherit and was glorified. Now his hair is as white as snow and his eyes as a flame of fire.
T8,Humanity, of which group Jesus is a member, is made a little lower in authority than the gods(messengers). Jesus, a man, was elevated above them in authority. That is a lesson from Hebrews 2:6-9.
Hebrews 2:5 states that the world to come will not be subject to angels(gods). Jesus therefore cannot be an angel(god) since then the world would not be subject to him.
The new world and the new heaven is what be inherited the old world and and the old heaven, where Jesus is at present, will pass away.
The soulish body; the mortal body; flesh and blood, as in the later is the bestial soul, cannot inherit the world or heaven to come.
Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith,
**Who maketh his angels spirits**,
and his ministers a flame of fire.
Contradicting the scriptures for own gain,
seems to be a normal thing to do.I know for sure that there is no dust in heaven.
Nor glorified dust.
For the earth itself is poluted and shall melt.
So will be all the dust of the earth.You have chosen to be dust,but dont drag Jesus and His angels with you,for they are spirit.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
Quote THE FIRST ADAM WAS MADE OF THE DUST.
THE SECOND ADAM WAS MADE A QUICKENING SPIRIT.
NOT QUICKENED FLESH,OR GLORIFIED FLESH,OR FLESH
WITH SPIRIT AS BLOOD.I do not see Jesus mentioned in this passage so you most likely think the second Adam is Jesus even though you should know how Scripture uses symbolism of two men to speak of two natures of the same man in certain cases.
1 Corinthians 15:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Even this verse does not state Jesus is a quickening spirit but that in him all will be made immortal.
What you claim is that Jesus was raised a ghost that had the miraculous ability to make human flesh and bone to dwell in. The last I knew a human ghost is a dead human and one that dwells in a body is a live human. You have conceived of a creature in your mind that can choose between being dead and being alive.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 26 2013,23:30) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,18:32) The bottom line is these same net scholars translated spirit to ghost, and ghosts neither eat or can be touched. I quoted plenty of experts who made the point that Jesus proved he was not a spirit.
This is what AKJV says ” And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered” so according to it the disciples did not believe and wondered. Your examples does not use the same pattern. The correct pattern would be “While they did not yet believe the Cardinals won the game because of the joy and were wondering, they were told look at the scoreboard.” if we replace wondering with amazed we get “While they did not yet believe the Cardinals won the game because of the joy and were amazed, they were told look at the scoreboard.”
You use the same technique you accuse Ed of using and are using it at this time by claiming “they did not yet believe ” means “they did not yet believe” because of their reason for not believing.
Kerwin……….You are right also brother. Jesus is Not a Spirit of any kind not when he was on this earth and not now either, He is exactly as he was resurrected a flesh and bone human being Just as he said he was, and He will return to this earth as a SO of MAN just as he said he would. “when the SON of MAN returns , will he find faith on the earth” So it appears it was a, “Son of Man” who left the earth in a cloud, and it will be a “Son of Man”, who will return to this earth in cloud also. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene,Jesus is now a Spiritual human though he was a natural human before his death and resurrection.
Kerwin.
I dont understand your way of reasoning.
(QUOTE):
I do not see Jesus mentioned in this passage so you most likely think the second Adam is Jesus even though you should know how Scripture uses symbolism of two men to speak of two natures of the same man in certain cases.
(UNQUOTE):ADAM WAS THE *FIRST* MAN CREATED OF THE DUST.
JESUS IS THE SECOND ADAM CREATED OF SPIRIT.THE *FIRST* BORN OF THE DEAD.
THIS MAKES HIM THE SECOND ADAM; MADE SPIRIT.(QUOTE):
1 Corinthians 15:22
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Even this verse does not state Jesus is a quickening spirit but that in him all will be made immortal. (UNQUOTE):BECAUSE OF THE MAN JESUS,NOT THE SPIRIT JESUS,
HE DID NOT COME IN THE FORM OF SPIRIT,BUT OF FLESH.
THROUGH HIS TEACHINGS;WE CAN KNOW GOD;
AND INHERIT THE KINGDOM.(QUOTE):
What you claim is that Jesus was raised a ghost that had the miraculous ability to make human flesh and bone to dwell in. The last I knew a human ghost is a dead human and one that dwells in a body is a live human. You have conceived of a creature in your mind that can choose between being dead and being alive.(UNQUOTE):THE WORD GHOST IS YOURS: NOT MINE.
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT ONLY GHOSTS ARE SPIRIT;
AND THE ANGELS ARE FLESH AND BONE; THEN YOU ARE SAYING THAT GHOSTS ARE SUPERIOR TO ANGELS.YOU MUST BE CONFUSED REGARDING; SPIRIT, AND SPIRIT; AND GHOST.
1. ANGELS ARE SPIRIT CREATURES;NOT JUST SPIRIT.
2. SPIRIT CAN BE MANY; IE. IF ONE IS A HEAVY GAMBLER
HE HAS THE *SPIRIT* OF GAMBLING.
IF ONE NEVER STOPS LYING; HE HAS THE *SPIRIT* OF
LYING. IF ONE HAS NOTHING BUT LUST;HE HAS THE
*SPIRIT* OF LUST.
3. GHOSTS ARE THE SOULS OF THE HYBRIDS ROAMING
ON THE EARTH WITH NO PLACE TO GO, BUT IN HUMANS
AND ANIMALS OR DRY PLACES.THEY ALSO ARE THE
CAUSE OF THOSE SPIRITS OF MEN SHOWN ABOVE.(2).wakeup
Wakeup,
Quote **Who maketh his angels spirits**, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Who makes his messengers wind and his ministers flames of fire. Both the messengers and ministers are angels. So are some winds and some flames? Or do some move like the wind and others serve with fire of zeal? You cannot pick half of an equation to come to the truth of the whole equation.
If you read on in the chapter then you will find it is comparing what God did for his angelic messengers and ministers to what he did for Jesus and not of what he created either his angelic hosts or Jesus of.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2013,06:35) Wakeup, Quote **Who maketh his angels spirits**, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Who makes his messengers wind and his ministers flames of fire. Both the messengers and ministers are angels. So are some winds and some flames? Or do some move like the wind and others serve with fire of zeal? You cannot pick half of an equation to come to the truth of the whole equation.
If you read on in the chapter then you will find it is comparing what God did for his angelic messengers and ministers to what he did for Jesus and not of what he created either his angelic hosts or Jesus of.
Kerwin.Angels are *ministering* spirits.
**AND HIS**
(God's) ministers are preaching with fire,for they stirrup
the hearts.wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2013,09:52) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) 1. Jesus is IN God. (John 17:21) 2. Jesus IS God.
Gene, do both of these statements mean the same thing? YES or NO?
Mike…………No the two do not mean the same thing………
Then why in the world would you think these two DO mean the same thing?
1. The Word BECAME flesh.
2. The Word became IN flesh.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 25 2013,09:52) I noticed you still have not answered this scripture i have posted over and over. But put your tail between you legs and run away when confronted with absolute scriptures. I cor 8:4……..we know that there is not idol in the world and that there is “NO GOD, but “ONE” .
Ah, but you already know that my answer to that one comes with a price, right? And as of yet, you haven't paid the price, have you? (For those of you who are wondering, here is the price):8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever……..”
Gene, is the writer of Hebrews saying that Jesus is a “FALSE GOD”? A “SO-CALLED GOD”? An “UNTRUE GOD”? YES or NO to each, please?
When you pay the price, and answer that question HONESTLY, I won't even need to address your scripture – because you will have already arrived at the answer all by yourself.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 25 2013,16:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2013,10:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2013,17:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2013,10:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 24 2013,07:56)
The Word *WAS* God is when the Word is still in God's bosom.
And is the Word STILL God? YES or NO?
The Word can never be God.
Okay. I agree the Word can never be God.What I want to know is if you believe the Word USED TO BE the Father God Almighty Himself.
WAS the Word ever actually the BEING of God, Wakeup?
Mike B.You will get there where the majority can not come.
Because of your persistence.
I agree that one of us will “get there” because of my persistence.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 25 2013,16:10) Just picture yourself alone,and never said a word.
Your word is inside you; part of you.Okay……… so you believe the Word USED TO BE a “part of God”, but then became an individual being who is no longer a “part of God”?
Wakeup,
Quote JESUS IS THE SECOND ADAM CREATED OF SPIRIT. In that statement adam symbolizes the first human of a specific creation. It is the Spirit that is life giving, the Spirit that Jesus is the first to be created of. It gives life to Jesus' body and in doing so declares him to be the Son of God with power.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,01:32) Mike, The bottom line is these same net scholars translated spirit to ghost, and ghosts neither eat or can be touched.
So then the “bottom line” is that the angel of God who came to Manoah WAS a spirit being, because he REFUSED to eat, and no one touched him?Is that a fair claim on my part?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,10:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2013,07:50) Oh, and you also never answered this question from before: Kerwin, do you believe Satan's angels are spirit beings, but God's angels consist of flesh? YES or NO?
Mike,Yes, I believe that Satan and Michael are over hosts of corporeal creatures. Yes, Satan seems to also have non corporeal creatures working with him and it also seems reasonable Michael would as well.
And do these “non-corporeal” angels have bodies consisting of “spirit flesh”?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 26 2013,11:03) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 26 2013,22:46)
“Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”This is talking about the spiritual person v the carnal person.
2besee………..AMEN , AMEN< Brother, you have it right IMO.
Let's see. Paul highlighted the differences between the flesh of the creatures of earth.Was he highlighting the difference between those creatures' “carnal person” and “spiritual person”? Or did he MEAN “flesh” when he SAID “flesh”?
Then he highlights the difference between the first Adam, who was born of the dust of the earth and has a “natural” body, against the last Adam, who came from heaven and has a “spiritual” body like those of heaven.
At the time Paul wrote this teaching, had Satan and his angels been thrown out of heaven? What do you think, 2B? Kerwin? Gene?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,11:23) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2013,22:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2013,07:49) Kerwin, Please address this part of a recent post from me to you:
And what about Judges 13:16, that they listed? Does the fact that the angel who came to Manoah REFUSED to eat mean he WAS a “spirit”, and therefore NOT made of “spiritual flesh”?
This is why I say you're adding your own imaginations into the scriptures, Kerwin. Surely I couldn't use 13:16 to prove that angels AREN'T flesh – just because that one refused to eat, right? So how can you prove that angels ARE flesh just because some of them DID eat?
Mike,Quote And what about Judges 13:16, that they listed? Does the fact that the angel who came to Manoah REFUSED to eat mean he WAS a “spirit”, and therefore NOT made of “spiritual flesh”? It means nothing except that Manoah did not persuade, or possibly even try to persuade, the angel to change his mind and that the angel did not eat.
I plan on doing more research on the angel that visited Manoah.
Mike,I have now read the whole event as recorded in the AKJV of chapter 13 of judges and see no solid evidence to say whether or not the angel was corporeal or not. The best evidence I saw is that the angel was perceived to be a human whose features were that of an angel.
That is until said angel went up in flames, right? Wasn't seeming too much like a human being then, was he? So then the REAL bottom line is that I would be a fool to claim that Judges 13 proves that the angel was a spirit being because he refused to eat and wasn't touched, right?
And likewise, anyone who claims that angels eating and being touched proves that they consist of “spiritual flesh” would also be a fool, right?
So let's just settle it with the words of Jesus and Paul:
We must be born again of something OTHER THAN flesh to see and enter into the kingdom of God, because flesh can neither see nor enter that place.
Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God, so we will be resurrected – not in the flesh body we got from the first Adam – but in a spiritual body like those of heaven already have. Those entering heaven will have their bodies transformed into glorious new bodies like the one Jesus now has.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 26 2013,12:29) Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, **Who maketh his angels spirits**,
and his ministers a flame of fire.
Contradicting the scriptures for own gain,
seems to be a normal thing to do.I know for sure that there is no dust in heaven.
Nor glorified dust.
For the earth itself is poluted and shall melt.
So will be all the dust of the earth.You have chosen to be dust,but dont drag Jesus and His angels with you,for they are spirit.
wakeup.
Amen. Too many here contradict scriptures for their own gain.
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