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Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2014,03:17) w Quote I John 4 does not read, “God came in the flesh” It reads, “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh”
It is that simple
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
why does it say that “a man as come in a man “
what?Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 18 2014,23:40) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2014,03:17) w Quote I John 4 does not read, “God came in the flesh” It reads, “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh”
It is that simple
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
why does it say that “a man as come in a man “
what?
Jesus is a man and he came in the flesh rightso man came in flesh (man)how does that make sense
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,22:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:57) Here's what we know from scripture:
1a. Wisdom was the craftsman at God's side during the creation process.
1b. Jesus is called “the wisdom of God”.
2a. God framed the ages by His Word.
2b. Jesus is called “the Word of God”.
And Hebrews 1:2 links all of these hints together by coming right out and saying that God created the ages by none other than Jesus.
All these pieces fit like a glove, Kerwin. And there are many more pieces given to us in the scriptures as well. So what is it that keeps you from solving this relatively easy puzzle?
Mike,It is plausible that Scripture credits Jesus with what the word did in order to show he personalizes the word but I do not think that is what it does.
What about Hebrews 1:2, Kerwin?There's no way you can pretend that Jesus is merely being “personified” as the “thing” through which the ages were created in that verse.
So doesn't that fact lend support to the other hints I listed above?
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 18 2014,09:08) Jesus Christ is come in the flesh The wording is clear.
Nothing about changing into flesh.
Nothing about putting on a flesh suit
1. Are you saying that if the angel Gabriel was changed into a human being, we couldn't sensibly say that he “came in the flesh”?2. On the other hand, about which human being, who has never been anything other than a human being, would we say, “He came in the flesh”?
In other words, when speaking about your birth, do people say, “He came in the flesh”? Has anyone EVER said those words about ANY human being you have ever known?
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2014,05:18) Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 18 2014,23:40) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2014,03:17) w Quote I John 4 does not read, “God came in the flesh” It reads, “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh”
It is that simple
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
why does it say that “a man as come in a man “
what?
Jesus is a man and he came in the flesh rightso man came in flesh (man)how does that make sense
Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh.I am a man, I came in the flesh.
God is spirit, he doesn't change Malachi 3:6
God is always spirit
I John 4:1-5 makes sure that God's people fall for the trinity lie
God did not change into flesh.
Jesus, being a man, came in the flesh
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Just there is no doubt God makes sure that we understand that
God is God
Men are men
the one mediator is the man Christ Jesus.
Not the God Christ Jesus
Not the God-man Christ Jesus
Not the second person of the trinity Christ Jesus
Not the son of a mother of god Christ Jesus
Not one third of a triune god Christ Jesus
The man Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus is THE MAN
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,06:31) Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 18 2014,09:08) Jesus Christ is come in the flesh The wording is clear.
Nothing about changing into flesh.
Nothing about putting on a flesh suit
1. Are you saying that if the angel Gabriel was changed into a human being, we couldn't sensibly say that he “came in the flesh”?2. On the other hand, about which human being, who has never been anything other than a human being, would we say, “He came in the flesh”?
In other words, when speaking about your birth, do people say, “He came in the flesh”? Has anyone EVER said those words about ANY human being you have ever known?
Where does it say the God ever changed an angel into a man?Hmmm?
Angels have visited men in the appearance of a man, but they did not become men.
They did not change species from angel to man
Do men change from men to frogs?
Has God ever done that?
No, of course not.
God can of course, of stones, make children of Abraham, but God's word says that
He does not say he changes angels into men.
He certainly may be capable of doing so, but God's word does not say that he does, has or ever will.
We must work with what scriptures tell us, not what we would like scripture say, or with extrapolations
We do not have to say of men that they came as men, but
Since God, who is spirit, is the Father of Jesus Christ, the man, in his case we need to know that.
So God tells us.
For us to know and believe
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,06:14) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,22:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:57) Here's what we know from scripture:
1a. Wisdom was the craftsman at God's side during the creation process.
1b. Jesus is called “the wisdom of God”.
2a. God framed the ages by His Word.
2b. Jesus is called “the Word of God”.
And Hebrews 1:2 links all of these hints together by coming right out and saying that God created the ages by none other than Jesus.
All these pieces fit like a glove, Kerwin. And there are many more pieces given to us in the scriptures as well. So what is it that keeps you from solving this relatively easy puzzle?
Mike,It is plausible that Scripture credits Jesus with what the word did in order to show he personalizes the word but I do not think that is what it does.
What about Hebrews 1:2, Kerwin?There's no way you can pretend that Jesus is merely being “personified” as the “thing” through which the ages were created in that verse.
So doesn't that fact lend support to the other hints I listed above?
Hebrews 1:2Jesus Christ is the heir of all those things that God created.
God designated Jesus Christ to be the heir of those things
God knew he would have a son, I Peter 1:20
And God made the choice that His son would be heir.
Did God choose to make things that would degrade His son or glorify His son?
He created those things with His son's accomplishments in mind.
He created them for/by Christ Jesus.
He did not create the heavens and the earth for the devil or for mankind in general but for Christ Jesus and eventually for us.
God did all that by His wisdom
I never said that the scriptures say God changed Gabriel to a man. I was using an analogy to make a point. Please answer the question.
Also, would you answer the question I have numbered 2 in my post?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,01:14) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,22:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:57) Here's what we know from scripture:
1a. Wisdom was the craftsman at God's side during the creation process.
1b. Jesus is called “the wisdom of God”.
2a. God framed the ages by His Word.
2b. Jesus is called “the Word of God”.
And Hebrews 1:2 links all of these hints together by coming right out and saying that God created the ages by none other than Jesus.
All these pieces fit like a glove, Kerwin. And there are many more pieces given to us in the scriptures as well. So what is it that keeps you from solving this relatively easy puzzle?
Mike,It is plausible that Scripture credits Jesus with what the word did in order to show he personalizes the word but I do not think that is what it does.
What about Hebrews 1:2, Kerwin?There's no way you can pretend that Jesus is merely being “personified” as the “thing” through which the ages were created in that verse.
So doesn't that fact lend support to the other hints I listed above?
Mike,The Jews of the First Century lived in a different cultural than I do and I do not have the in depth knowledge of that cultural that they did. What I do know that Scripture communicates with types and symbols. Some of them are hard to understand just as Peter states. Never the less I found the interpretation that certain passages are crediting the works of the word to Jesus because the word was made flesh in him as being unlikely. I mentioned it because only because it is a hypothesis.
Hebrews 1:2 has some ambiguity in the Koine Greek that is not translated to English in the few translations “dia” is one such word and can either mean “through” or “on account of”. The Trinitarian translators were predisposed to select “through” whether or not it fit the spirit of Scriptures.
The Trinitarian translators of the KJV do the same type of thing in Colossians 1:16 with “en” which has the choices of “in, on, at, by, with”. I favor “in” and not “by” as “en” is also used in Romans 3:24 to speak of the “redemption that is in Christ Jesus”.
sonofgod
Quote God did not change into flesh. this is clear to me i am not a trinitarian ,remember that my friend
Quote Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh. I am a man, I came in the flesh.
i was made by flesh because i was flesh right form my father(flesh) semen,
Jesus as no semen in flesh and so cannot be a man he may appear as a man, look like a man , have the cover of flesh like common men have ,
could be born out of a women (but we know that this is not certified to be 100% men )
Quote They did not change species from angel to man Jesus did not change species but was transformed from one to the other ,but ad to leave his glory behind (in heaven) with the father for a time ,
this is why it required the powers of God ,to bring him forth ,
Jesus was and his and remains forever the son first born to God almighty his father ;this is the reason why he his the heir of all things ,
that is what his father wanted ;
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.pay attention to verse 15 were it says he is the first born over all creation ;
now pay attention to verse last part it says ;so that in everything he might have the supremacy.; this mean that being first some how is very important in heaven and being the first born means also something important something so important to die for ,and this is what SUPREMACY MEANS beside God their is only his son Jesus Christ
this is the will of the father ;Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
see being the first resurrected from the dead was very important because it give him the powers to destroyed it ,no men born of flesh can do that this is talking with the powers in heaven , and this is why he ad to become supreme to all others angels and men ,and God made sure that he got it ,
T.
Quote
Jesus as no semen in flesh and so cannot be a man *he may appear* *as a man*, *look like a man* , *have the cover of flesh* *like common men have* ,
*could be born out of a women* *(but we know that this is not certified to be 100% men )*There are three that bear record on earth.
1.The water.
2.The blood
3.And the Holy Ghost.And you say Jesus is not 100% man. wow.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 19 2014,06:08) T. Quote
Jesus as no semen in flesh and so cannot be a man *he may appear* *as a man*, *look like a man* , *have the cover of flesh* *like common men have* ,
*could be born out of a women* *(but we know that this is not certified to be 100% men )*There are three that bear record on earth.
1.The water.
2.The blood
3.And the Holy Ghost.And you say Jesus is not 100% man. wow.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
wakeup.
wtake the time to read the scriptures ,and understand them ;the scriptures are not calling me wrong ,neither do I made them lie ,
on the contrary I say that he really came in the flesh ;because as he said he came from the father ,
I am from flesh to flesh I do not come in the flesh I ALWAYS WAS IN THE FLESH ,JESUS WAS NOT ALWAYS FLESH SO HE AT TO BECOME FLESH OR COVER HIMSELF WITH FLESH
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 19 2014,12:28) T. Your own words:
Jesus is not 100% man.
This only means that Jesus is not 100% flesh.
wakeup.
WA candy with chocolate inside is not a candy
Did Christ. Life was in that body of flesh
Yes it was ,his soul,heart and mind was inside the cover of flesh ,so yes he was more than man,he was the son of GodTransferred from the thread about spiritual bodies.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 19 2014,13:20) Kerwin. You want scriptures?
Put your glasses on.1.God is a spirit; has he got a body?
2. Is he of flesh and bone?
3.Has HE got a spirit body; or flesh and bone?
4.Jesus said: When you are born of the spirit,
*YOU ARE SPIRIT*. like the wind.
Are you the one that dares to disagree?
And change the meaning for own use?3.The second Adam was made a *QUICKENING SPIRIT*.
Are you the person that dares to change the wording?
Like the scribes did with the bible?
Have you been sleeping with the scribes?wakeup.
Wakeup,God is the creator and does not have a body as space did not exist before God created it.
The second Adam as well as the first was Adam. There is an inner Adam and an outer Adam just as Scripture teaches us there is an inner man and an outer man.
K
You know you say that there was no space ,but what do we know of what was there before all creation start
God says does the one that planted the ear can not hear ? The one that created the eyes cannot see
Let not be to sure of things here what we really do not know much about it
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 19 2014,18:28) Transferred from the thread about spiritual bodies. Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 19 2014,13:20) Kerwin. You want scriptures?
Put your glasses on.1.God is a spirit; has he got a body?
2. Is he of flesh and bone?
3.Has HE got a spirit body; or flesh and bone?
4.Jesus said: When you are born of the spirit,
*YOU ARE SPIRIT*. like the wind.
Are you the one that dares to disagree?
And change the meaning for own use?3.The second Adam was made a *QUICKENING SPIRIT*.
Are you the person that dares to change the wording?
Like the scribes did with the bible?
Have you been sleeping with the scribes?wakeup.
Wakeup,God is the creator and does not have a body as space did not exist before God created it.
The second Adam as well as the first was Adam. There is an inner Adam and an outer Adam just as Scripture teaches us there is an inner man and an outer man.
Kerwin.You are wrong according the scriptures.
Revelation 22:4 ***And they shall see his face***; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
He has no body, but has a face?
what say you?
wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2014,16:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,01:14) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,22:52) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:57) Here's what we know from scripture:
1a. Wisdom was the craftsman at God's side during the creation process.
1b. Jesus is called “the wisdom of God”.
2a. God framed the ages by His Word.
2b. Jesus is called “the Word of God”.
And Hebrews 1:2 links all of these hints together by coming right out and saying that God created the ages by none other than Jesus.
All these pieces fit like a glove, Kerwin. And there are many more pieces given to us in the scriptures as well. So what is it that keeps you from solving this relatively easy puzzle?
Mike,It is plausible that Scripture credits Jesus with what the word did in order to show he personalizes the word but I do not think that is what it does.
What about Hebrews 1:2, Kerwin?There's no way you can pretend that Jesus is merely being “personified” as the “thing” through which the ages were created in that verse.
So doesn't that fact lend support to the other hints I listed above?
Mike,The Jews of the First Century lived in a different cultural than I do and I do not have the in depth knowledge of that cultural that they did.
Hebrews 1:2 has some ambiguity in the Koine Greek that is not translated to English in the few translations “dia” is one such word and can either mean “through” or “on account of”.
So your rebuttal is to claim that Hebrews 1:1-2 doesn't really say what it clearly seems to say?Like I've recently showed Marty, it's hard for you to reject the translation of “through” in favor of “on account of” – because of Colossians 1:16.
In that verse, “en”, “dia”, and “eis” are all used in apposition to each other. For example, the last line of Col 1:16 says all things were created “dia him” AND “eis him”. If the last words are correctly translated as “for him”, then a translation of “on account of him” for the word “dia” in that verse doesn't make much sense.
We wouldn't sensibly say that all things were created FOR him and FOR him, right?
So Colossians 1:16 argues in favor of a translation of, “all things were created through him and for him”.
Kerwin, what if you DID accept the most common translation of Hebrews 1:2? What if you DID accept a translation of “through” in that verse?
Then would the words I supersized in the quote box above make sense? Would the pieces of puzzle all fit nicely together then?
Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 19 2014,07:14) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2014,05:18) Quote (sonofGod @ Jan. 18 2014,23:40) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 19 2014,03:17) w Quote I John 4 does not read, “God came in the flesh” It reads, “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh”
It is that simple
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
why does it say that “a man as come in a man “
what?
Jesus is a man and he came in the flesh rightso man came in flesh (man)how does that make sense
Jesus is a man, there fore he came in the flesh.I am a man, I came in the flesh.
God is spirit, he doesn't change Malachi 3:6
God is always spirit
I John 4:1-5 makes sure that God's people fall for the trinity lie
God did not change into flesh.
Jesus, being a man, came in the flesh
I Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Just there is no doubt God makes sure that we understand that
God is God
Men are men
the one mediator is the man Christ Jesus.
Not the God Christ Jesus
Not the God-man Christ Jesus
Not the second person of the trinity Christ Jesus
Not the son of a mother of god Christ Jesus
Not one third of a triune god Christ Jesus
The man Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus is THE MAN
Sonofgod……..very well put, I believe that way also. Those who do not see Jesus as a man simply so not see the true JESUS. IMOPeace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
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