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Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,07:29) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,03:59) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,03:24) k Quote 1) I was speaking of wisdom being a personification in Proverbs 8 and not God's word. we have learn through scriptures that God does not do anything without implicating HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ;
AND SO IT HIS HIS SON THE ONE CALLED THE WORD” THAT WOULD COME DOWN AND LAY HIS LIVE DOWN FOR US ,DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT GO IS PLAYING WITH WISDOM HAS MEN DOES ;THEIR IS NO PERSONIFICATION ONLY IN SOME CORRUPTED MIND ,
IF YOU READ PROVERB VERY SLOWLY AND ASK YOURSELF THE RIGHT QUESTIONS YOU COULD COME TO SEE THE TRUTH IN IT ,
T,The correct answer is that Proverbs teaches us that kings reign by the wisdom of God. You are looking for evidence that supports your teaching that Jesus was before he was and Proverbs 8 does not supply it.
KQuote The correct answer is that Proverbs teaches us that kings reign by the wisdom of God WISDOM IS UNDERSTANDING AND POWER AND THE USE OF IT ;
THAT IS HOW GOD MAKE SOMEONE KING OR GET RID OF ONE
THE WORD WISDOM CHANGES ACCORDING TO THE CONTEXT ;SO ARE ALL THE SCRIPTURES THAT IS WHAT GOD DID
T,Yes.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 12 2014,03:45) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,07:29) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,03:59) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,03:24) k Quote 1) I was speaking of wisdom being a personification in Proverbs 8 and not God's word. we have learn through scriptures that God does not do anything without implicating HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ;
AND SO IT HIS HIS SON THE ONE CALLED THE WORD” THAT WOULD COME DOWN AND LAY HIS LIVE DOWN FOR US ,DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT GO IS PLAYING WITH WISDOM HAS MEN DOES ;THEIR IS NO PERSONIFICATION ONLY IN SOME CORRUPTED MIND ,
IF YOU READ PROVERB VERY SLOWLY AND ASK YOURSELF THE RIGHT QUESTIONS YOU COULD COME TO SEE THE TRUTH IN IT ,
T,The correct answer is that Proverbs teaches us that kings reign by the wisdom of God. You are looking for evidence that supports your teaching that Jesus was before he was and Proverbs 8 does not supply it.
KQuote The correct answer is that Proverbs teaches us that kings reign by the wisdom of God WISDOM IS UNDERSTANDING AND POWER AND THE USE OF IT ;
THAT IS HOW GOD MAKE SOMEONE KING OR GET RID OF ONE
THE WORD WISDOM CHANGES ACCORDING TO THE CONTEXT ;SO ARE ALL THE SCRIPTURES THAT IS WHAT GOD DID
T,Yes.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 12 2014,11:33) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 12 2014,03:45) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,07:29) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,03:59) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 09 2014,03:24) k Quote 1) I was speaking of wisdom being a personification in Proverbs 8 and not God's word. we have learn through scriptures that God does not do anything without implicating HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ;
AND SO IT HIS HIS SON THE ONE CALLED THE WORD” THAT WOULD COME DOWN AND LAY HIS LIVE DOWN FOR US ,DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT GO IS PLAYING WITH WISDOM HAS MEN DOES ;THEIR IS NO PERSONIFICATION ONLY IN SOME CORRUPTED MIND ,
IF YOU READ PROVERB VERY SLOWLY AND ASK YOURSELF THE RIGHT QUESTIONS YOU COULD COME TO SEE THE TRUTH IN IT ,
T,The correct answer is that Proverbs teaches us that kings reign by the wisdom of God. You are looking for evidence that supports your teaching that Jesus was before he was and Proverbs 8 does not supply it.
KQuote The correct answer is that Proverbs teaches us that kings reign by the wisdom of God WISDOM IS UNDERSTANDING AND POWER AND THE USE OF IT ;
THAT IS HOW GOD MAKE SOMEONE KING OR GET RID OF ONE
THE WORD WISDOM CHANGES ACCORDING TO THE CONTEXT ;SO ARE ALL THE SCRIPTURES THAT IS WHAT GOD DID
T,Yes.
T.The price of stickers has gone up.
It will cost you.wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 13 2014,04:14) wakeup Quote T. The price of stickers has gone up.
It will cost you.wakeup.
useless talk
T.Useless talk is contagious.
I got it from you.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 10 2014,14:03) I have not addressed the rest of your earlier post which I felt in part was you scrambling for justification for your choice of doctrine.
Kerwin,Tell me the scenario where God could tell a HUMAN BEING to repent and stop sinning, OR he will die like a human being.
Tell me the time in scripture where HUMAN BEINGS did repent and stop sinning, and were SPARED FROM dying like human beings.
I'm laying LOGIC on you, and you call it “scrambling for justification”.
Please DIRECTLY answer those two points for me.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,14:55) 5) The “arise” as used in Psalms 82:8 is equivalent to repent.
Psalm 3:7
Arise, O LORD; save me, O my God: for thou hast smitten all mine enemies upon the cheek bone; thou hast broken the teeth of the ungodly.Hmmmm………… Sound familiar?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,01:08) There were many princes that fell at not just one. It does not say you will fall like a certain one of the princes.
Of the princes IN HEAVEN……….. which ONE of them fell, as far as we know?Also, isn't it implied: “you will fall like one of the princes [fell]“?
For example, if I tell you that “you will fall like Gene”, don't I mean that you will fall like Gene FELL?
So add that last “FELL” to the statement in your mind. Then it becomes, “You will fall like one of the princes fell.” And which “one of the princes” fell, Kerwin? Satan is the only one we know about, right?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,01:08) When I hear “you will fall like one of the princes it means that you will fall like one of the princes who fell long before Psalms 82 was written. That is why they are called fallen angels.
Remember that God didn't say they would fall like the princes fell. He said they would fall like ONE OF THE princes fell.He is talking about only ONE prince who fell. Also, we aren't told about any angelic princes in scripture besides Michael, Satan, and Jesus.
So what makes you think the angels who fell with Satan were “princes”?
And also, since you're understanding the statement to refer to “fallen angels”, what sense would it make for God to first tell MEN that they would die like MEN, and then tell them they would fall like the angels who fell?
Kerwin, you're lacking sense on this one.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 11 2014,09:20) MIke …….I have a question for you, what does the actual “WORD” GOD mean to you? , I want your actual understanding of its definition, and what it implies to you.
It means “mighty one”, Gene.And in scripture, it always refers to a mighty supernatural being. (In some cases, that “mighty supernatural being” turns out to be a man-made idol, who is only THOUGHT TO BE a mighty one by those who worship it.)
Jehovah is said to be the MOST HIGH of the many “mighty ones” in existence. He is also said to be the mighty one OF the many other mighty ones……… and the ONLY mighty one to have created all things.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,15:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2014,08:43) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,15:59) You are looking for evidence that supports your teaching that Jesus was before he was and Proverbs 8 does not supply it.
Proverbs 8 is one of the over 50 places in scripture that “supply it”, Kerwin. But you must have eyes to see…… eyes that are NOT self-inflicted with blinders.1 Corinthians 1:24
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ…… the wisdom of God.What PERSON is metaphorically called “the wisdom of God” in the above verse, Kerwin? Could it be the same PERSON who is metaphorically called “the wisdom of God” in Proverbs 8?
Hmmmmm………… Proverbs 8:22 says God brought this particular “wisdom” forth as the first of His works. Where have we heard that before? Do “firstborn of every creature”, “God's firstborn Son”, and “beginning of the creation by God” ring any bells?
8:23-26 mention how the origins of this particular “wisdom” were from ancient times. Where have we heard that before? Maybe in Micah 5:2, John 8:58, or Jude 1:25?
8:27-31 explain how this particular “wisdom” was a master craftsman at God's side during the creation process. Where have we heard that before? Perhaps in John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2?
The signposts are all there, Kerwin. You just need to take off those blinders so you can SEE them.
Mike,Jesus is the Light.
God is Love.
Jesus is the Wisdom of God.
All are true if understood correctly.
Hi Kerwin,I've highlighted the questions from my last post, since it seems you didn't see them the first time.
Please either ANSWER those questions, or don't say anything at all.
Mike……….Wisdom is “NOT” a Person it is an “ATTRIBUTE” supplied by one of the seven Spirits of Our God. It is the Chief of his spirits and supplies the LORD our GOD, and anyone who has it, with the ability to REASON and use KNOWLEDGE WISELY. Because it is an “INDIVIDUAL” attribute of God, it can be Metaphorically be presented , just like Love and other attributes can be. But to say Jesus is what the scriptures, in Prov 8 is talking about is nothing more then a Assumption on your part, and Kerwin is absolutely right in what he said, you simply need these “assumption” of yours, to make Jesus a “PREEXISTING” Being. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 13 2014,20:21) Mike……….Wisdom is “NOT” a Person it is an “ATTRIBUTE” supplied by one of the seven Spirits of Our God. It is the Chief of his spirits and supplies the LORD our GOD, and anyone who has it, with the ability to REASON and use KNOWLEDGE WISELY. Because it is an “INDIVIDUAL” attribute of God, it can be Metaphorically be presented , just like Love and other attributes can be. But to say Jesus is what the scriptures, in Prov 8 is talking about is nothing more then a Assumption on your part, and Kerwin is absolutely right in what he said, you simply need these “assumption” of yours, to make Jesus a “PREEXISTING” Being. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
GTHE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT WRITTEN FOR MEN TO KNOW GOD PERSON IN DETAIL ,WE WILL NEVER KNOW HIM THAT WAY UNLESS WE ARE GOING BY INVITATION TO HIM IN HEAVEN ,BUT THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM ,
AND SO HIS WISDOM HIS NOT HIS BUT THE SON ;GOD WISDOM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SPREAD OUT IT IS ALREADY DONE BY HIS CREATION , UNDERSTAND THAT MEN ARE NOT THE FIRST BEINGS CREATED BY GOD MEN ARE THE LAST ,
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,06:09) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 13 2014,20:21) Mike……….Wisdom is “NOT” a Person it is an “ATTRIBUTE” supplied by one of the seven Spirits of Our God. It is the Chief of his spirits and supplies the LORD our GOD, and anyone who has it, with the ability to REASON and use KNOWLEDGE WISELY. Because it is an “INDIVIDUAL” attribute of God, it can be Metaphorically be presented , just like Love and other attributes can be. But to say Jesus is what the scriptures, in Prov 8 is talking about is nothing more then a Assumption on your part, and Kerwin is absolutely right in what he said, you simply need these “assumption” of yours, to make Jesus a “PREEXISTING” Being. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
GTHE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT WRITTEN FOR MEN TO KNOW GOD PERSON IN DETAIL ,WE WILL NEVER KNOW HIM THAT WAY UNLESS WE ARE GOING BY INVITATION TO HIM IN HEAVEN ,BUT THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM ,
AND SO HIS WISDOM HIS NOT HIS BUT THE SON ;GOD WISDOM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SPREAD OUT IT IS ALREADY DONE BY HIS CREATION , UNDERSTAND THAT MEN ARE NOT THE FIRST BEINGS CREATED BY GOD MEN ARE THE LAST ,
T.Quote ***THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON*** AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM , .
***Who wrote the scriptures for God's Son***?
The scriptures *IS* the SON*. Its all about him.
The old and the new testament is THE WORD OF GOD,
And was made flesh.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,10:23) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,06:09) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 13 2014,20:21) Mike……….Wisdom is “NOT” a Person it is an “ATTRIBUTE” supplied by one of the seven Spirits of Our God. It is the Chief of his spirits and supplies the LORD our GOD, and anyone who has it, with the ability to REASON and use KNOWLEDGE WISELY. Because it is an “INDIVIDUAL” attribute of God, it can be Metaphorically be presented , just like Love and other attributes can be. But to say Jesus is what the scriptures, in Prov 8 is talking about is nothing more then a Assumption on your part, and Kerwin is absolutely right in what he said, you simply need these “assumption” of yours, to make Jesus a “PREEXISTING” Being. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
GTHE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT WRITTEN FOR MEN TO KNOW GOD PERSON IN DETAIL ,WE WILL NEVER KNOW HIM THAT WAY UNLESS WE ARE GOING BY INVITATION TO HIM IN HEAVEN ,BUT THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM ,
AND SO HIS WISDOM HIS NOT HIS BUT THE SON ;GOD WISDOM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SPREAD OUT IT IS ALREADY DONE BY HIS CREATION , UNDERSTAND THAT MEN ARE NOT THE FIRST BEINGS CREATED BY GOD MEN ARE THE LAST ,
T.Quote ***THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON*** AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM , .
***Who wrote the scriptures for God's Son***?
The scriptures *IS* the SON*. Its all about him.
The old and the new testament is THE WORD OF GOD,
And was made flesh.wakeup.
WYOU REALLY NEED TO READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STOP PUTTING IN YOUR OWN VIEWS IN IT
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,17:27) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 14 2014,10:23) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2014,06:09) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 13 2014,20:21) Mike……….Wisdom is “NOT” a Person it is an “ATTRIBUTE” supplied by one of the seven Spirits of Our God. It is the Chief of his spirits and supplies the LORD our GOD, and anyone who has it, with the ability to REASON and use KNOWLEDGE WISELY. Because it is an “INDIVIDUAL” attribute of God, it can be Metaphorically be presented , just like Love and other attributes can be. But to say Jesus is what the scriptures, in Prov 8 is talking about is nothing more then a Assumption on your part, and Kerwin is absolutely right in what he said, you simply need these “assumption” of yours, to make Jesus a “PREEXISTING” Being. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
GTHE SCRIPTURES ARE NOT WRITTEN FOR MEN TO KNOW GOD PERSON IN DETAIL ,WE WILL NEVER KNOW HIM THAT WAY UNLESS WE ARE GOING BY INVITATION TO HIM IN HEAVEN ,BUT THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM ,
AND SO HIS WISDOM HIS NOT HIS BUT THE SON ;GOD WISDOM DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SPREAD OUT IT IS ALREADY DONE BY HIS CREATION , UNDERSTAND THAT MEN ARE NOT THE FIRST BEINGS CREATED BY GOD MEN ARE THE LAST ,
T.Quote ***THE SCRIPTURES HAVE BEEN WRITTEN FOR HIS SON*** AND TO GUIDE MEN THAT SEARCH FOR HIM ,AND THE HOW GOD WILL PROCEED IN ACTION TO FULFILL HIS WILL TO RECONCILE THE WORLD TO HIM , .
***Who wrote the scriptures for God's Son***?
The scriptures *IS* the SON*. Its all about him.
The old and the new testament is THE WORD OF GOD,
And was made flesh.wakeup.
WYOU REALLY NEED TO READ THE SCRIPTURES AND STOP PUTTING IN YOUR OWN VIEWS IN IT
T.Why dont you answer my question?
Who wrote the scriprures for the Son of GOD.wakeup.
w
Quote T. Why dont you answer my question?
Who wrote the scriprures for the Son of GOD.wakeup.
prophets of God did
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,02:27) What PERSON is metaphorically called “the wisdom of God” in the above verse, Kerwin? Could it be the same PERSON who is metaphorically called “the wisdom of God” in Proverbs 8?
Mike,Wisdom in Proverbs 8 is a personification and not a person as by her kings reign.
Jesus is the wisdom of God in the same way the God is love. He has the attribute of Wisdom and therefore reigns by Wisdom.
Luke 7:35
New International Version (NIV)35 But wisdom is proved right by all her children.”
Your question mistakenly assumes wisdom in Proverbs 8 is a person and either yes or no is a wrong answer.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,02:27) Hmmmmm………… Proverbs 8:22 says God brought this particular “wisdom” forth as the first of His works. Where have we heard that before? Do “firstborn of every creature”, “God's firstborn Son”, and “beginning of the creation by God” ring any bells?
Mike,The AV of the KJV translates Proverbs 8:22 differently. It helps if you include the version of disputed passages. You may not have realized it is a disputed passage. It sounds like the NIV though the Aramaic Bible in Plain English and Net Bible are more friendly to your chosen doctrine.
You are looking for similarities and not for differences in testing your hypothesis. Proverbs 8 also states by Wisdom kings reign. That statement alone that Proverbs 8 is talking about the Wisdom of God and not a person.
God brought forth his wisdom as the first of his works which teaches us among other things that he has not been doing his works from eternity. Not every work of God is a creation so unless that is your assumption there is no parallel to your misinterpretation of Colossians 1:15.
Mike,
Quote 8:23-26 mention how the origins of this particular “wisdom” were from ancient times. Where have we heard that before? Maybe in Micah 5:2, John 8:58, or Jude 1:25? Yes, I know of your misinterpretation of these passages. Your doctrine is not based on reason as more than one thing has old origins and say this one is the same one as that one without evidence is to speak without using reason.
Mike,
Quote 8:27-31 explain how this particular “wisdom” was a master craftsman at God's side during the creation process. Where have we heard that before? Perhaps in John 1:3, Colossians 1:16, 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Hebrews 1:2? You are probably using the Net bible's translation though some others seem to agree. The NIV and the AV of the KJV and others do not.
It is written that the ages were preferred by God's word so should it surprise you that his wisdom is called an artificer?
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