- This topic has 3,120 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2013,18:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,10:59) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2013,09:36)
Mike………God and His word are ONE and the same thing……..
If that was really true, Gene, then it was Jehovah Himself who BECAME FLESH and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
Mike……. Indeed it was God the Father who was truly “IN” Jesus.
Gene,Did the Father God Almighty Himself become flesh and dwell on earth with the glory of His own only begotten Son? YES or NO?
Wakeup,
2 Chronicles 36:22 Young's Literal Translation
And in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, at the completion of the word of Jehovah in the mouth of Jeremiah, hath Jehovah waked up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, and he causeth an intimation to pass over into all his kingdom……….Was God Himself inside the mouth of Jeremiah? Or does it mean that Jeremiah spoke the literal words that God gave him to speak? Which one?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 22 2013,11:06) Wakeup, 2 Chronicles 36:22 Young's Literal Translation
And in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, at the completion of the word of Jehovah in the mouth of Jeremiah, hath Jehovah waked up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, and he causeth an intimation to pass over into all his kingdom……….Was God Himself inside the mouth of Jeremiah? Or does it mean that Jeremiah spoke the literal words that God gave him to speak? Which one?
Mike B.Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and
***in divers manners***
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,GOD(his Word/now Jesus), SOMETIMES SPOKE TO THE PROHETS, AND ALSO SOMETIMES MAKE THE PROPHETS SPEAK THE WORDS.
Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
IN THE CASE OF JESUS; GOD DWELLS IN HIM.
FOR HE ALONE IS WITHOUT SIN.(clean).
JESUS NEVER HEARD HIS FATHER SPEAKING IN HIS EARS
IN AUDIO,LIKE HE SPOKE TO MOSES.wakeup.
Jesus appeared to his brethren in the flesh.(True).
Jesus said; a spirit has no flesh as I have; go and touch me.
A spirit has NO flesh.(true).
He appeared as flesh indeed.But why did Jesus show himself in the flesh with all his wounds?
This is to witness to them that He really is *HE* of whom they (jews)have crucified.
To show himself as He is; is not possible for them to see,
and no proof that He is indeed *HIM* that is crucified.
The wounds on his body testifies that he indeed is the one crucified. But He will not carry his wounds forever,but can show it if he wants to.HIS APPEARING IS JUST FOR THEM TO SEE AND WITNESS.
TO FEEL AND TOUCH,and be convinced.This does not mean that His permanent body is flesh,for he said: When you are resurrected,you will be spirit like the angels.
Angels are not made out of flesh. A spirit body is made of spirit; like the wind.A terrestrial body is not equal to a celestial body.
A flesh body is not as a spirit body.1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a *natural body*; it is raised a *spiritual body*. There is a *natural body*, and there is a *spiritual body*. Both have bodies;but one is a spirit body.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was **made a quickening spirit**.
A quickening spirit is not a quickening flesh,or a glorified *flesh*body.
This is a new invention, by some churches.The flesh is glorified into spirit.(quickened).
Not glorified into a better flesh substance.Satan and his angels are not made of glorified flesh,but
spirit; as the holy angels. Satan and his angels are not
roaming this earth in the flesh,that can be seen,and touched.They can appear in the flesh,only if God allows.
The key to understanding is to know how to decern the scriptures.A small misinterpretation can cause a flood of errors.
As some can see.wakeup.
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:[/quote]
Quote
Hi journey,While I appreciate you explaining the same exact thing a second time, let me respond with what I said to Wakeup in the Matt 4:4 thread:
mikeboll64,Oct. wrote:Wakeup,
Listen very carefully, and just DIRECTLY address my point, okay? I don't need you to post the same huge “explanation” over and over. I'm having a problem WITH that explanation, and am asking for CLARIFICATION to solve that problem. And you continuing to post the same thing over and over is NOT clarifying what I need to be clarified.
You said: “God does not become anything but God.
It is his *Word* that became flesh.'Hi Mike,
this is what I said;Quote he has given life to his Word, and made it a spirit or a being sitting with him at all times for the one single purpose and planning ahead as he always does, to transform his Word and turn it into flesh and make a Son for himself.
I think I need to correct myself as it is getting clearer.
His Word already had life. He did not give it life. He could not have made it spirit for it was already spirit. He could not of made it a being, for it was already inside God, therefore already a being. The bible does not say anywhere that God bought his word “out of himself” but says that the Word is God, and the Word was “WITH” God, and everything was made through the Word.
So it was inside him, and also next to him. It went everywhere with him.Now you ask;
if the Word was God, and Christ is the Word of God, then God must be Christ and Christ must be God. They must be the same.
I say No, because Christ prayed to his Father.
I say No, because the Father resurrected Christ.
I say No, because God called Christ his SON.
I say No, because Christ called God his FATHER.
FATHER – SON CANNOT BE THE SAME.
You are not your Dad?
So there is a RELATIONSHIP here.
Not a schizefrenic, or an imposter claiming to have a Son,
for that would make God a liar, and Christ also.I also say No, because Christ called us “Brethren” and not sons.
So what I was trying to relay in my previous post is that God's Word became flesh and not God himself. The Word was just that before Christ. The Word.
When the Word became flesh and changed to the form of a man, a new creation came to be,
from spirit to flesh,
whereas the spirit was always controlled totally by God,
God says this, and the Word obeys.
Now, we have similarities, for the Word, now flesh still obeys, God says this, and Christ obeys,
Only one thing different now,
The Word now has a body, and a mind of his own.
He speaks whatever God tells him to speak,
and he also can think for himself.
Instead of the Word just “obeying” everything,
the Word now prays to the “Owner”/God and asks of him help, and praises God.
Obeying – asking – Obeying – asking,
two different things.
The Word is different now,
a new creation,
a mind of it's own but in total tune of God.
He thinks for himself now, and makes his own decisions,
and does everything for the honour of the Father.
He is trusted and proven true.When we understand that Christ is not God from the hundreds of scriptures,
we start to understand John 1:1 better.j42
Quote So what I was trying to relay in my previous post is that God's Word became flesh and not God himself. The Word was just that before Christ. The Word.
When the Word became flesh and changed to the form of a man, a new creation came to be,how come that Paul mist this explanation in his letters or did he
were is it say so in his letters Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,22:32) j42 Quote So what I was trying to relay in my previous post is that God's Word became flesh and not God himself. The Word was just that before Christ. The Word.
When the Word became flesh and changed to the form of a man, a new creation came to be,how come that Paul mist this explanation in his letters or did he
were is it say so in his letters
Terra.Paul did not explain about the word of God.
But john did.
God and his Word had no beginning.
John said in the beginning was the Word.This was when God's Word was *beginning* to be used by God to create. God was beginning to speak out his Word.
After God brought forth his Word,a *living being*.They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,05:35) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2013,11:32) So please tell me, if spirits can be touched and eat then how would both of those proofs have worked to convince the disciples that Jesus was not a spirit?
Again, already answered, Kerwin………… LOTS of times.What Jesus actually taught: Spirits don't have flesh and bone.
What Kerwin reads into Jesus' words: Spirits can't be touched and can't eat.
Only the former is to be believed, Kerwin. The things you've read into it are of no consequence to any seeker of truth.
Mike,You are not answering the question I asked but another one that is what your mind seems to tell you I asked.
You see the first proof when Jesus stated that spirits do not have flesh and blood though your interpretation of it is narrower than mine. You miss the fact that the disciples still doubted him after that and that he then gave them a second proof that he was not a spirit.
As you take a second look at what I asked considering the second proof also consider that Scripture states nothing about angels not having flesh and bone like structure but states the two that visited Lot looked like men.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 22 2013,18:12) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,22:32) j42 Quote So what I was trying to relay in my previous post is that God's Word became flesh and not God himself. The Word was just that before Christ. The Word.
When the Word became flesh and changed to the form of a man, a new creation came to be,how come that Paul mist this explanation in his letters or did he
were is it say so in his letters
Terra.Paul did not explain about the word of God.
But john did.
God and his Word had no beginning.
John said in the beginning was the Word.This was when God's Word was *beginning* to be used by God to create. God was beginning to speak out his Word.
After God brought forth his Word,a *living being*.They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.wakeup.
Quote They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.if this is true ;WHY DID IT TOOK SO LONG TO CREATE ALL THINGS
Quote Paul did not explain about the word of God.
But john did.
God and his Word had no beginning.
John said in the beginning was the Word.SO PAUL AND JOHN ARE IN DISAGREEMENT
WHY AND HOW IF “THE WORD ” HIS “CHRIST ” THEY ARE NOT IN DISAGREEMENT AT ALL ,ONLY IF YOU SAY THAT THE WORD HIS “NOT” CHRIST THEN PAUL AND JOHN ARE IN A DISAGREEMENT ,Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,23:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 22 2013,18:12) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,22:32) j42 Quote So what I was trying to relay in my previous post is that God's Word became flesh and not God himself. The Word was just that before Christ. The Word.
When the Word became flesh and changed to the form of a man, a new creation came to be,how come that Paul mist this explanation in his letters or did he
were is it say so in his letters
Terra.Paul did not explain about the word of God.
But john did.
God and his Word had no beginning.
John said in the beginning was the Word.This was when God's Word was *beginning* to be used by God to create. God was beginning to speak out his Word.
After God brought forth his Word,a *living being*.They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.wakeup.
Quote They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.if this is true ;WHY DID IT TOOK SO LONG TO CREATE ALL THINGS
Terra.Why did it took so long in creating all things?
God has his plan worked out accordingly.
Man had to multiply from generation to generation.
This takes time.
While evil has to grow from bad to worse,
all this takes time.
The seed of evil was sown in the garden,and the time of harvesting the evil; is at the time of the harvest.(rev 14:18–20).wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 22 2013,18:36) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,23:23) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 22 2013,18:12) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2013,22:32) j42 Quote So what I was trying to relay in my previous post is that God's Word became flesh and not God himself. The Word was just that before Christ. The Word.
When the Word became flesh and changed to the form of a man, a new creation came to be,how come that Paul mist this explanation in his letters or did he
were is it say so in his letters
Terra.Paul did not explain about the word of God.
But john did.
God and his Word had no beginning.
John said in the beginning was the Word.This was when God's Word was *beginning* to be used by God to create. God was beginning to speak out his Word.
After God brought forth his Word,a *living being*.They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.wakeup.
Quote They had glory together in creating.
What God wants said,His Word speaks out.
God spoke and it stood fast.if this is true ;WHY DID IT TOOK SO LONG TO CREATE ALL THINGS
Terra.Why did it took so long in creating all things?
God has his plan worked out accordingly.
Man had to multiply from generation to generation.
This takes time.
While evil has to grow from bad to worse,
all this takes time.
The seed of evil was sown in the garden,and the time of harvesting the evil; is at the time of the harvest.(rev 14:18–20).wakeup.
it seems you are accommodating yourself to your own understanding ;God commanded and all who was part of it took their part of it ,
Ge 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness
WHO HIS THE “US” AND WHO HIS THE “OUR”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 22 2013,10:59) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 20 2013,18:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,10:59) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 16 2013,09:36)
Mike………God and His word are ONE and the same thing……..
If that was really true, Gene, then it was Jehovah Himself who BECAME FLESH and dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
Mike……. Indeed it was God the Father who was truly “IN” Jesus.
Gene,Did the Father God Almighty Himself become flesh and dwell on earth with the glory of His own only begotten Son? YES or NO?
Mike …….No, God is a SPIRIT as Jesus said He was, A Spirit can indwell a flesh person but can not be it, But all spirits desire a Body to exist “IN” and so does God the Father, or haven't you read where it says the Spirit “EARNESTLY” DESIRES US. Or perhaps you also Missed where it Says Know you not brethren your Body is the “TEMPLE” of the “LIVING” God. Or perhaps this ONE, Destroy this “TEMPLE” and in three days I (GOD) shall raise “IT” (the body of Jesus), up (from the grave.) and again, Know you not that you “ARE” the TEMPLE of The God, and the Spirit of GOD “DWELLETH” “IN” YOU and again One God the Father of all, who is above all through all, and “IN” YOU ALL and again, For it is God, which works “IN” you “BOTH” to Will and “DO” of “HIS” good pleasureWhat more can be said? If you cant get it then God has simply not allowed you to Mike and Pierre and all other who believe as they do. But to those who do understand this , this i say, not I, but the word of John .
Ye are of God little children, and have overcome them, because grater is He that is “IN” you the he that is in the world.
Now who is it that is “IN” you? , is it not GOD the FATHER'S very own “Spirit of Truth” that is Abiding “IN” you, yes it is and you are being Keptfrom the LIES by God himself. The reason there are so many different Mystery Religious teachings is because very few have the Spirit of the LIVING God in then and they make up probably 95% of all Christendom. IMO
peace and love to the Israel of God……………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,05:39) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2013,11:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2013,06:05) I've asked 9 very simple YES or NO questions. If and when you list all nine, with a YES or NO answer beside each one, we will continue. (And by YES or NO, I do not prohibit further explanations as to WHY an answer was either YES or NO. You can say as much as you want about your YES or NO answer – as long as your response actually starts with the word “YES” or the word “NO”.)
Mike,Your conditions leave half-truths as answers and that is unacceptable.
Plus your questions require being reworked as I suggested.
Then explain away those imagined “half truths” as you answer all nine with a YES or a NO.Like I've said, I don't require ONLY a YES or a NO. You are free to explain your YES or NO in as many words as you like………………… AS LONG AS THE ANSWERS START WITH A “YES” OR A “NO”.
Or you can refuse to deal with that post altogether, and leave me alone on the subject. You are the one who brought me into this by name. I didn't ask to wade through even more of your nonsensical, philosophical mumble jumble.
Mike,Oops! Sorry, I thought you did require a yes or no.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2013,05:33) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2013,11:19) I point out that your insistence that you go by the literal interpretation of the statement “the word was made flesh” put you in conflict with a literal interpretation of the words ” Jesus came in the flesh”. Can you explain how your interpretations of those two passages are not in conflict?
Already explained, Kerwin. If God causes an already existing spirit being to be born from the womb of a human woman, both of these things can be said about that spirit being:1. He was made flesh.
2. He came in the flesh.
The only contradiction is in your own mind – and the contradiction in your own mind is cause by personal desires.
In other words, you are creating a “problem” when in reality, none exists.
Mike,You need to show more work instead of leaving me to figure out the connections especial if I am taking the position of not knowing that connection.
Wakeup,
Quote Luke 24:39 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Spirits do not have flesh and bone.
Is Jesus a spirit?
Jesus has flesh and bone after his resurrection.
Therefore Jesus cannot be a spirit.You're half way there, Kerwin. Now, add the fact that flesh can't enter or inherit the kingdom of God – something that Jesus clearly has done, since he is Lord over that kingdom.
What does that tell us? That YES, Jesus WAS raised from the dead as flesh. But NO, Jesus can no longer consist of flesh.
In Phil 3:21, Paul speaks of having his own lowly body transformed into a glorious new body like the one Jesus now has.
My educated guess is that the flesh Jesus was raised from the dead in was transformed upon his ascension to heaven.
But you don't have to believe my version of it. As long as you remember that Jesus was raised in the flesh, but cannot exist in heaven as flesh, you'll have no choice but to come to a sensible conclusion of your own.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 21 2013,20:03) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 22 2013,11:06) Wakeup, 2 Chronicles 36:22 Young's Literal Translation
And in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, at the completion of the word of Jehovah in the mouth of Jeremiah, hath Jehovah waked up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, and he causeth an intimation to pass over into all his kingdom……….Was God Himself inside the mouth of Jeremiah? Or does it mean that Jeremiah spoke the literal words that God gave him to speak? Which one?
Mike B.Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and
***in divers manners***
spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets……….
Hi Wakeup,Please directly answer the question I asked. Which one?
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2013,06:16) You see the first proof when Jesus stated that spirits do not have flesh and blood though your interpretation of it is narrower than mine. You miss the fact that the disciples still doubted him after that and that he then gave them a second proof that he was not a spirit.
Kerwin,I haven't “missed the fact”. It's just that I don't agree that eating was a “proof” of him not being a spirit.
Luke 24:41 NET
And while they still could not believe it 107 (because of their joy) and were amazed, 108 he said to them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 109Note #107 says:
They still could not believe it.Is this a continued statement of unbelief? Or is it a rhetorical expression of their amazement? They are being moved to faith, so a rhetorical force is more likely here.
The NET scholars don't think the disciples were still in actual disbelief……. and therefore, the eating wasn't a “proof” of anything.
On the other hand, note #109 starts off leaning your way, but then ends up asking more questions than it answers. It says:
Do you have anything here to eat?Eating would remove the idea that a phantom was present. Angelic spirits refused a meal in Jdt 13:16 and Tob 12:19, but accepted it in Gen 18:8; 19:3 and Tob 6:6.
I have no idea what book of the Bible “Tob” is. I have sent a message to ask them, and am awaiting a response. But notice that they say “angelic spirits” refused meals sometimes, and ate them other times in scripture.
So if these scholars believe that angels are indeed spirits, and that they CAN eat food, then why would Jesus eating food prove that he WASN'T a spirit?
And what about Judges 13:16, that they listed? Does the fact that the angel who came to Manoah REFUSED to eat mean he WAS a “spirit”, and therefore NOT made of “spiritual flesh”?
This is why I say you're adding your own imaginations into the scriptures, Kerwin. Surely I couldn't use 13:16 to prove that angels AREN'T flesh – just because that one refuse to eat, right? So how can you prove that angels ARE flesh just because some of them DID eat?
You are going beyond what is written in an effort to prove what I believe is sheer nonsense in the first place. Heaven is a spirit realm, and nothing but spirit beings dwell there. Flesh cannot enter heaven – not even if you invent something called “spiritual flesh”.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
