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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:19) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2013,12:14) Mike, Quote In John 17:5, the word “eichon” is written in the first person singular form……… which in the imperfect tense means, “I kept on having/holding”. In Matthew 27:16, the word “eichon” is written in the third person plural form…….. which in the imperfect tense means, “THEY kept on having/holding”.
So whether you prefer “having” or “holding”, the fact is that JESUS is the one who was having/holding that glory.
The first person singular means “I' according to my testing. Thank your for the correction.
I am still am fine with I had.
You are welcome. Thank YOU for ACCEPTING the correction. This ACCEPTANCE of the truth of the matter seems hard to come by on this site……… so well done.
You say you are good with “I HAD”. Okay. For argument's sake, I can live with “I HAD”.
Now, tell me if there was ever a time someone spoke about something they HAD – when they didn't really ever HAVE that thing before.
Give me an example.
Mike,It's use depends on characteristics that only God has. His foreknowledge and that he knows a person before they are formed in their mother's womb. This allows him to give a person a “gift” before the person comes to exist. The closest I know to this is a will that gives an inheritance to a child that has not been conceived as of its writing.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2013,00:07) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,23:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I believe the Prophets were also said to have received the word of God but that was on an individual basis.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
I also know that the children of Israel were called God's children in the Law of Mosses.
Deuteronomy 14:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
He indirectly calls them gods in another passage as the reason they are to obey his commandments.
Deuteronomy 10:16-18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 he doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
k1Ch 17:3 That night the word of God came to Nathan, saying:
who was saying
Ac 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
it is clear that it was the written word right ? yes
Lk 3:2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that THE ONE who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”THIS IS WHY JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW ;
Jn 1:14 THE WORD became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Rev 19:13 He(THE SON OF GOD) is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MAN THAT CLAIM “THAT HE CAME FROM HEAVEN AND THAT HE WENT BACK ” THIS IS A FACT.
T,I mentioned the prophets and omitted the new testament as it was not yet written when Jesus spoke.
Even including the NT, it is always humans that are said to have received the word of God.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,00:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2013,00:07) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,23:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I believe the Prophets were also said to have received the word of God but that was on an individual basis.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
I also know that the children of Israel were called God's children in the Law of Mosses.
Deuteronomy 14:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
He indirectly calls them gods in another passage as the reason they are to obey his commandments.
Deuteronomy 10:16-18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 he doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
k1Ch 17:3 That night the word of God came to Nathan, saying:
who was saying
Ac 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
it is clear that it was the written word right ? yes
Lk 3:2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that THE ONE who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”THIS IS WHY JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW ;
Jn 1:14 THE WORD became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Rev 19:13 He(THE SON OF GOD) is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MAN THAT CLAIM “THAT HE CAME FROM HEAVEN AND THAT HE WENT BACK ” THIS IS A FACT.
T,I mentioned the prophets and omitted the new testament as it was not yet written when Jesus spoke.
Even including the NT, it is always humans that are said to have received the word of God.
kthat was not my point ,so read my quote again and see the difference
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2013,01:55) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,00:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2013,00:07) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,23:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I believe the Prophets were also said to have received the word of God but that was on an individual basis.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
I also know that the children of Israel were called God's children in the Law of Mosses.
Deuteronomy 14:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
He indirectly calls them gods in another passage as the reason they are to obey his commandments.
Deuteronomy 10:16-18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 he doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
k1Ch 17:3 That night the word of God came to Nathan, saying:
who was saying
Ac 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
it is clear that it was the written word right ? yes
Lk 3:2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that THE ONE who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”THIS IS WHY JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW ;
Jn 1:14 THE WORD became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Rev 19:13 He(THE SON OF GOD) is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MAN THAT CLAIM “THAT HE CAME FROM HEAVEN AND THAT HE WENT BACK ” THIS IS A FACT.
T,I mentioned the prophets and omitted the new testament as it was not yet written when Jesus spoke.
Even including the NT, it is always humans that are said to have received the word of God.
kthat was not my point ,so read my quote again and see the difference
T,Then I am not seeing what you mean. Could you please make is clearer? Thank you.
Gene wrote:[/quote]
Quote Journey….You are right, the enemies of God do not want John 5:7 to be in scriptures, because it show that the FATHER and the WORD, and Holy Ghost (spirit) “ARE” ONE they all are one being, our GOD. Notice it says in verse, (7) “ARE” ONE, but in verse (8) it says “AGREE IN” ONE”, being, that is, and that being is the flesh man Jesus Christ and he is called the Faithful witness. Who came (into existence) not by Just Spirit but by water and Blood, a normal berth process of Human flesh, just as we all have in common with him. Jesus was begotten in the womb of Mary by God and became both a son of man and a son of God by that very process, he never preexisted his berth on this earth.
Another point, “Ha Satan”, does not want John 5:7 to even be in scriptures because it shows that The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, “ARE” ONE and the same thing, he wants people to believe God and His word and Holy Spirit are all three different things. Why?
So he can use it to move Jesus away from his Flesh and Blood roots and in this way, “SEPARATE” His IDENTITY, with His fellow human brothers and sisters, and of course His “EXAMPLE” to us of How to overcome, is lessened, by making him “DIFFERENT then we are, so why wouldn't “Ha-Satan”, try to discredit that verse as not being in the original text.
All Trinitarians and Preexistence's don't want it to be there, because it goes against their concepts of Jesus being “the word”, instead of our GOD and His word being one and the same thing. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
1John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.Thank you Gene, that's right.
Can I also share this?The enemy also does not want US to know;
1. That we can OVERCOME THE WORLD, if we believe Jesus is the Son of God. (Satan hates this)2. That Jesus is the SON OF GOD (Satan also hates this Father/Son relationship)
3. That the Father bears record in heaven and is also a witness. (Satan hates this. Do as thou shalt, no ones watching!)
4. That the Father, his WORD, and Holy Ghost is one. That it all comes from God.
The world will say, you believe in the trinity if you believe this?,
No, we don't pray to the Holy Ghost, it is given from God,
nor do we pray and say Dear Word, when addressing the Father,
but we pray to the Father, and believe on him through his spoken Word recorded for us in the holy bible,
and he gives the holy spirit as a helping hand to understand his Word so we can be full of light, and have strength/self control in the spirit of God.5. That we can receive the spirit of truth. Although Satan knows the scriptures, he cannot understand all of them, because understanding has been taken away. The holy ghost is not in him, and he is in darkness. He hates the fact that we can know more truth than him. He hates that we know what he is up to and what he will do even to the end, and that we are prepared and warn others also.
6. He hates that not only Christ bears witness whilst he was in the earth, but that we also, if we have the holy spirit in us, bear witness also.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,02:15) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2013,01:55) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,00:49) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2013,00:07) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,23:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I believe the Prophets were also said to have received the word of God but that was on an individual basis.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
I also know that the children of Israel were called God's children in the Law of Mosses.
Deuteronomy 14:1
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
He indirectly calls them gods in another passage as the reason they are to obey his commandments.
Deuteronomy 10:16-18
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: 18 he doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.
k1Ch 17:3 That night the word of God came to Nathan, saying:
who was saying
Ac 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
it is clear that it was the written word right ? yes
Lk 3:2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that THE ONE who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”THIS IS WHY JOHN THE BAPTIST KNEW ;
Jn 1:14 THE WORD became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Rev 19:13 He(THE SON OF GOD) is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY MAN THAT CLAIM “THAT HE CAME FROM HEAVEN AND THAT HE WENT BACK ” THIS IS A FACT.
T,I mentioned the prophets and omitted the new testament as it was not yet written when Jesus spoke.
Even including the NT, it is always humans that are said to have received the word of God.
kthat was not my point ,so read my quote again and see the difference
T,Then I am not seeing what you mean. Could you please make is clearer? Thank you.
Kpay attention to ;Luke 3;2
then go to ;John 1;33
now pay attention to what JB says who he saw or came to him in luke 3;2
then ;look what JB said in John 1;33 “THE ONE”WHO SEND ME …….
SO HERE YOU HAVE A VISITOR THAT HAD TALKED TO JB AND TOLD HIM WHAT WILL AND HAS TO COME ,
K
1Ch 17:3 That night the word of God came to Nathan, saying:in this scripture Nathan received a visitor that spooked to him ,and his name was ;THE WORD OF GOD “
T,
John the Baptist was also a prophet to whom the word came.
Are you claiming that when it states the word of God came to Nathan that it is speaking of a being called The Word of God?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2013,09:45) T, John the Baptist was also a prophet to whom the word came.
Are you claiming that when it states the word of God came to Nathan that it is speaking of a being called The Word of God?
KYES,
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 23 2013,20:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,10:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2013,09:48) Mike……..So i can also say the Glory I had with the Father before the world began right?
You could only say it if you actually HAD glory before the world began, Gene. Did you?Also, don't forget that it is literally, “the glory I WAS HAVING”.
Hi Mike:He had that glory by the following principle:
Quote
Rom 4:17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Quote
Jhn 17:24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Love in Christ,
Marty
No Marty. One cannot speak of something they HAD – unless they actually HAD that thing in the past.You can PRETEND your claim makes a lick of sense – along with Kerwin and Gene…… but it never will. Nor do the scriptures you posted actually support what you claim.
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 24 2013,01:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,11:25) Now he just needs to find an explanation that uses words that are actually IN the scriptures. Those extra words in the KJV version of 1 John 5:7 aren't found in ANY Greek ms before the 14th century. They have been PROVEN to be a later ADDITION to John's words, and are therefore not included in any more recent Bible.
Those so called “missing words” are not found in the Alexandrian texts. You have it the wrong way around.If you read this version in NWT, you will only get half the truth…..
journey,The words were ADDED to only TWO mss (out of hundreds) in the 14th century.
It doesn't matter how eloquently you are able to explain them into the scriptures, because the fact will remain that John never wrote those words.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 24 2013,01:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,10:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 21 2013,09:48) Mike……..So i can also say the Glory I had with the Father before the world began right?
You could only say it if you actually HAD glory before the world began, Gene. Did you?Also, don't forget that it is literally, “the glory I WAS HAVING”.
But……..Mike we do have Glory reserved in heaven for us….
Agreed. But having glory RESERVED for us is NOT the same thing as us HAVING that glory before the world began.We can't ask God to give us the glory WE WERE HAVING BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN – because none of us were actually HAVING that glory BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,11:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
Kerwin,Are you continuing to insist that the word of God didn't come to angels – after I just posted one scripture that proves you wrong – and pointed you to a second one?
Did you read Rev 1:1 like I asked you to?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,12:02) <!–QuoteBegin–mikeboll+64
Do you think Jesus is asking to be glorified IN GOD'S PRESENCE when he says, ?
Mike,No, It did not come to me that Jesus was to be glorified in God's literal presence……
Interesting. What about John 17:24? It is part of the same passage. Where do you think Jesus wants them be with him – so they can see that glory God has given him? In God's presence in heaven? Or on earth, away from God?Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,12:34) This allows him to give a person a “gift” before the person comes to exist.
But it doesn't allow that person to say they WERE HAVING that gift before they actually had it.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2013,03:37) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,11:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
Kerwin,Are you continuing to insist that the word of God didn't come to angels – after I just posted one scripture that proves you wrong – and pointed you to a second one?
Did you read Rev 1:1 like I asked you to?
Mike,Revelation 1:1 does not support you as the angel serves as a messenger to communicate the message to John. The letters to the churches might be construed that way as they are addressed to the angels/messengers of each church. I believe that is a debate between those who call themselves Jesus' followers. I myself find it unlikely that Jesus would have an angel communicate the message to John so that John could communicate it to seven other angels.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2013,03:52) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,12:34) This allows him to give a person a “gift” before the person comes to exist.
But it doesn't allow that person to say they WERE HAVING that gift before they actually had it.
Mike,Actually it does as it is theirs and none others.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2013,03:47) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,12:02) <!–QuoteBegin–mikeboll+64
Do you think Jesus is asking to be glorified IN GOD'S PRESENCE when he says, ?
Mike,No, It did not come to me that Jesus was to be glorified in God's literal presence……
Interesting. What about John 17:24? It is part of the same passage. Where do you think Jesus wants them be with him – so they can see that glory God has given him? In God's presence in heaven? Or on earth, away from God?
Mike,Jesus is talking of the believers in general by that point as he switched to them in verse 20. He is also talking about believers being in him and he in them. I am prone to think he is asking that believers be with him spiritually.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,17:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2013,03:37) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2013,11:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2013,06:29) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2013,18:15) Mike, Do you believe the Law of Moses is the word of God?
Yes. But it is not the ONLY thing called “the word of God”, right?Why do you ask?
Mike,I asked because I was wondering why you do not realize that the children of Israel were the only group said to have received the word of God in the OT.
I have never heard of an angel the received the word of God.
Kerwin,Are you continuing to insist that the word of God didn't come to angels – after I just posted one scripture that proves you wrong – and pointed you to a second one?
Did you read Rev 1:1 like I asked you to?
Mike,Revelation 1:1 does not support you as the angel serves as a messenger to communicate the message to John. The letters to the churches might be construed that way as they are addressed to the angels/messengers of each church. I believe that is a debate between those who call themselves Jesus' followers. I myself find it unlikely that Jesus would have an angel communicate the message to John so that John could communicate it to seven other angels.
Kerwin.True. The seven churches had each their own angel(message).
Some corrupt;some not so corrupt.
They are warned to get things right.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2013,08:28) Agreed. But having glory RESERVED for us is NOT the same thing as us HAVING that glory before the world began. We can't ask God to give us the glory WE WERE HAVING BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN – because none of us were actually HAVING that glory BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN.
Mike…….Why would it not be the same thing as Having it already, can God LIE?, If Jesus was in his Plan from the beginning of the foundations of the earth, it was a done deal, just as, It was a done deal for Cyrus, 200 years before his berth, for John the baptist before his berth, for Moses before his berth, for the Prophet Jeremiah before his berth, for Jesus before his berth, for us before our berth also. How is that so hard for you to comprehend Mike? Come on you can understand that.Jesus was in his plan and will also and so was his Glory he was to receive , and Jesus never said he was Having it “already” before as a sentinel being, before he existed on this earth. That is your rendition, to keep alive you belief of His preexistence, as a God.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
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