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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 21 2008,11:59) Quote (t8 @ May 17 2008,18:16)
WJ, if you are implying that this scripture is saying that Jesus is YHWH, then you have to exclude the Father from being YHWH.Your logic betrays you t8. Besides you denying the Grandville Sharp rule, apparently you believe the Father is going to return to the earth. So if you are saying that the Father is (YHWH), God in Titus 2:13, then you have to exclude Jesus from being the one spoken of here…
Then shall the LORD (YHWH) go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Zech 14:3, 4)You see how your logic only works the way you want to see it t8?
If Jesus is YHWH, then who is the son of YHWH?
Does Jesus have a son? I know that some teach this according to recent TV programmes.Yeshua is the image of the invisible God. God dwells in his son, just as he can dwell in us.
God was in Christ redeeming the world to himself and he will do it again when the messiah returns.
It doesn't say God is Christ.
Thanks for listening.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 22 2008,08:23) 1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
a) refers to the things of God
b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a) God's representative or viceregent
1) of magistrates and judges
All the points can be proven in scripture except for the Trinity references.I don't want to teach that which is not written.
You may disagree, but you are free to do that.
Thanks.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 22 2008,08:23) Where is the scripture that ascribes Divinity to these so-called gods you speak of?
Putting words in my mouth again?- Theos/elohim are used of others besides the Most High God.
- We can also partake of divine nature.
I believe both. You are free to not believe.
T8……Trinitarians are master deceivers and their purpose is to distort meline, and twist the truth, but their folly will have an end. At the return of our Brother and lord Jesus. While they take you on these long trials and add implications to what your not saying, and there even so bold to change the words or add words not even the text, and doing it even without fear. They are truly clouds without water who's destruction is not lingering . Jude spoke well of them foaming out to their own same.
But you be strong and don't give in to these perverter's of God Word.
Peace to you brother and May God strength you in this……….gene
I agree that it is deception.
I also think that a lot of innocent people are caught up in the doctrine, and the teachers will be accountable for what they have taught.
I think of myself. I was brought up to believe in the Trinity, when I fist became a believer. But after a while, something in me just knew that something about that doctrine wasn't right.
So God called me out of that doctrine and I know that he does with others too.
Scripture was the second witness and conviction the first.
T8……I believe if a person has God's spirit in them, that spirit of truth will guide them in there minds and will cause them to question things that don't make sense and that are not sound. As it says, ” brethren you have no need of a teacher, because (the spirit itself) will teach you all things.
If God is in you He will cause you question in your mind those false teachings and guide your mind into the way of truth.
peace to you…………..gene
Amen my brother Gene,
Hope our brother T8 also join with us in displaying the true meaning of scriptures by not bending towards the doctrine of Trinity.
May God continue to use you in this forum.
AdamHello all,
I stumbled upon this forum from searching about the history of the trinity. I am a new Christian. Before I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior I was pretty much agnostic. I didn’t really care if there was a God or not. I lived a completely secular life style.
After reading through the first 7 or so pages of the discussion I skipped to the end to see when the last post was. To my amazement it was still going on. I got to thinking to myself. Maybe they are not asking the right question.
Maybe instead of debating over whether or not Jesus Christ is “God the son” as part of the trinity. We should ask ourselves, “What would change if I did or didn’t believe that?” We all agree that Christ is the “Son of God” or “Gods only son” And I think most of us would agree that Christ was fully man. And we know from scripture that he out ranks the angels and is at the right had of God the father. So we can conclude that he is fully man, but he is also more than human. He is the word of God.
Would we not still go through Christ to get to the father?
Would we not still pray through Christ so that our prayers would be heard by the father?
Would we still bow down to him as Philippians 2:10 says?
Would we not still be saved by accepting Christ as our lord and savior and believing that God raised him from the dead?
If we deny Christ before man, would he not still deny us before his father.
Would we still need to strive to be a good servant of Christ? 1 Tim 4:6
Would we not still be his sheep? And him the shepherd?
Did he not still die for our sins?
Is he not still the lamb of God?
Is he not still going to come back as our king?
Wouldn’t the world still have been created through him?Later on in that passage it says for us to labor and strive for godliness because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the savior of everyone, especially of those who believe.
I believe if you truly love someone you would die in their place. I think that really defines love. That being said, “For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son.”
God himself is eternal so he couldn’t die for us even though that’s how much he loves us. So he sent the Word, his son, his own words which he used to speak this world into existence, which is a part of him, to this world to become flesh and to dwell among us and be the ransom for our sins.
Think about this. Growing up your younger brother tells you “Dad says we need to come home in an hour.” Did your dad tell you to come home in an hour? You know his word told you to come home in an hour, right? His word has the same authority as he does, right? His word, in the physical sense, is not him, but people are judged everyday by their word. Do we say then if we are being judged by our word that it isn’t us?
We can pray silent all day long but there is just something about when we make our prayers audible. When our thoughts become audible words it has more power. God said…and it was done. God spoke this universe into existence.
God did what he would not let Abraham do to Isaac on the mountain. Isaac was the promise, the covenant, between Abraham and God. God made Abraham a great nation and through his blood line, God made his word flesh.
We are limited to so much in this world but God is limitless. Time isn’t a factor to him as it is with us. We can only perceive 4 dimensions, x, y, z, and time but we can’t really explain what time actually is. We just know its there and it’s in constant motion. So how can we expect to be able to comprehend Gods true self?
I think when we start to try and go over every little detail about every little thing we loose focus on the big picture. Sure, we need to pay attention to detail to the bible, but not loose focus on what really matters.
Accepting Christ as savior believing he rose from the dead. Giving our life to him in full submission. Give up all sins and striving for perfection. Saying yes to God one day at a time, one choice at a time. If we stumble we need to get right back up and our next choice needs to be a yes for God. We need to love God and love our neighbor as ourselves.
So really what would that one little detail do to your faith?
I will leave you with something to ponder. In ever instance that Gods Audible voice is heard on earth there is a physically representation of God here on earth. Be it the burning bush or the angel of the lord. So has anyone ever thought that God gave his audible voice a permanent physical form? In the form of a man named Jesus Christ. So that he could dwell among his people. Give his own life for the salvation of his creation out of love. Something that he wouldn’t allow Abraham to do to Isaac.
Wow! Das,
You sure know alot for being a new Christian. Good for you – seek Him out!
I just wanted to say WELCOME, and we are glad that you're here.Love,
MandyWelcome DG,
Remember to follow the way of Jesus.
It is not written that accepting Jesus saves us
but it is written that we must repent and be reborn of water and the Spirit.Nick,
So if it isnt written that accepting Jesus Christ doesnt save us then what does Romans 10:9-13?
Im not saying once saved always saved. I believe that once you know the truth your held accountable for your actions.
People can get saved one day and then go back to the way they were before. I feel like true christians are those who
pick up their cross everyday and carry it. They are willing to go the extra mile to help anyone in need.Romans 3:23 says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
I agree with you that we need to repent.
It took 1 day for God to get the isearlites out of Egypt.
It took him 40 years to get the Egypt out of the isearlites.It only takes those few words to accept Christ as our lord and savior.
It takes our entire lives to strive for perfection. and its a daily battle against this world.Dasgooey…….welcome to the Heaven net site. We have a lot of serious discussions here and we go in depth on many issues of God's word. I have seen a few things that i would disagree with on what you said. However welcome and may your experience here be both encouraging and enlightening. It's good to have you here.
Peace to you and yours……….gene
Quote (Dasgooey @ May 29 2008,11:22) Nick, So if it isnt written that accepting Jesus Christ doesnt save us then what does Romans 10:9-13?
Im not saying once saved always saved. I believe that once you know the truth your held accountable for your actions.
People can get saved one day and then go back to the way they were before. I feel like true christians are those who
pick up their cross everyday and carry it. They are willing to go the extra mile to help anyone in need.Romans 3:23 says all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
I agree with you that we need to repent.
It took 1 day for God to get the isearlites out of Egypt.
It took him 40 years to get the Egypt out of the isearlites.It only takes those few words to accept Christ as our lord and savior.
It takes our entire lives to strive for perfection. and its a daily battle against this world.
Hi DG,
Romans was written to the SAVED.
Check Ch1.Quote (Dasgooey @ May 29 2008,09:12) Hello all, After reading through the first 7 or so pages of the discussion I skipped to the end to see when the last post was. To my amazement it was still going on. I got to thinking to myself. Maybe they are not asking the right question.
Maybe instead of debating over whether or not Jesus Christ is “God the son” as part of the trinity. We should ask ourselves, “What would change if I did or didn’t believe that?” We all agree that Christ is the “Son of God” or “Gods only son” And I think most of us would agree that Christ was fully man. And we know from scripture that he out ranks the angels and is at the right had of God the father. So we can conclude that he is fully man, but he is also more than human. He is the word of God.
we are being judged by our word that it isn’t us?
We can pray silent all day long but there is just something about when we make our prayers audible. When our thoughts become audible words it has more power. God said…and it was done. God spoke this universe into existence.
God did what he would not let Abraham do to Isaac on the mountain. Isaac was the promise, the covenant, between Abraham and God. God made Abraham a great nation and through his blood line, God made his word flesh.
We are limited to so much in this world but God is limitless. Time isn’t a factor to him as it is with us. We can only perceive 4 dimensions, x, y, z, and time but we can’t really explain what time actually is. We just know its there and it’s in constant motion. So how can we expect to be able to comprehend Gods true self?
I think when we start to try and go over every little detail about every little thing we loose focus on the big picture. Sure, we need to pay attention to detail to the bible, but not loose focus on what really matters.
So really what would that one little detail do to your faith?
Hi Das, welcome to a wonderful family of God.
You know we all have crossed that boundary that you have quoted above. All of us have got the saving knowledge of Christ. The things we debate here are not done anywhere out side. This is a plotform where you can feel free to release your inhibitions. We are surrounded by the cloud of many good brothers and sisters. Some of your convictions about God and Jesus are not accepted by many brothers in this forum. Hope God will lead you through His Spirit to bring out revelations from His scriptures. I am happy you are having great zeal in knowing God.
May God continue to reveal His glory to you.
Peace to all
AdamHi DG,
If you do not know if your God is one or three then how can you pray or worship?
Jesus is the Son of God and less than our Father God.
All he has and is came from GodWelcome DG,
I hope that your time on Heaven Net spurs you on to grow in truth. It is better than TV!! We are all learning, keep that in mind when you read the opinions. Nothing can replace the guidance of the Holy Spirit within you.Have fun,
LUWelcome DG I have always followed man in the past, until about 14 years ago when the W.W.C. of God split up. It was a chaos, while in the past everyone was all so peaceful all became argue mental. Many went and started their own Churches, and original Remnants of the Church went back to even believing the trinity and other doctrine that I just do not believe in and have proven to myself as being wrong, and that my friend is the most important thing that you should do for yourself.
Always prove it with scriptures.
1 Thes. 5:21 ” Prove all things.”not3in1…….Good to see you back, hope you and your family are all doing well.
Love and peace to you and yours………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2008,13:50) Hi DG,
Romans was written to the SAVED.
Check Ch1.
Nick,Could you explain then if we just repent and dont except christ as our savior how we are saved.
Are we not saved through christ. So if you dont accept christ then repenting would be useless.
There is a whole group of people “the Jews” that dont accept christ as their savior but im sure they repent. What about them. They are a God fearing people but they dont accept christ.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 29 2008,16:12) not3in1…….Good to see you back, hope you and your family are all doing well. Love and peace to you and yours………..gene
Bro Gene,Thanks. I've been studying quite a bit lately and found that this site helps to keep me motivated. I just need to do more proving and less personal stuff here. It's easy to get off track. Especially when I'm home more now with an injured knee. It just helps to study and then compare what is said here.
Plus, I need to quite being such a baby.
And realize that if my feelings get hurt it's not the end of the world. I'm such a chick in that way. I'm working on it.Love ya,
Mandy
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