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2 Chronicles16:8 Were not the Ethiopians and the Lubims a huge host, with very many chariots and horsemen? yet, because thou didst rely on the LORD, he delivered them into thine hand. 9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. Herein thou hast done foolishly: therefore from henceforth thou shalt have wars. 10 Then Asa was wroth with the seer, and put him in a prison house; for he was in a rage with him because of this thing. And Asa oppressed some of the people the same time. 11 And, behold, the acts of Asa, first and last, lo, they are written in the book of the kings of Judah and Israel. 12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
Zech 1:8 I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, F2 and white. 9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be. 10 And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.
Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
Psalm 91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Psalm 35:5 Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.
Psalm 35:6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them
Job 1:7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
There is nothing in Job that would have us believe that the adversary is some rebel spirit against God and wants to be evil unto Job for wicked sake. On the contrary the adversary is God’s agent that walks to and fro and noticed the hedge around Job and saw that he needed testing and refinement. Notice how the adversary said to God to stretch out YOUR HAND, this shows that this is in fact God’s angel asking permission to inflict Job, as the angel does not follow his OWN will. Throughout the book, Job blames God for his punishment, likewise do the other men. The adversary was a loyal servant to God and did not act upon himself. The book of Job is written from the perspective of a man knowing that God sends forth His angels as saw-tawns (adversaries) also referred to as evil angels in scripture. The angel is in fact a Son of God, but unto man he is seen as a saw-tawn. Was God really wrong about Job in the beginning? Obviously God didn’t actually think Job didn’t need testing, otherwise He would have NEVER allowed HIS HAND to strike Job administered through His angel. The infliction brought about by the angel did in fact turn Job away from his vanity and ignorance and made him into a more righteous man.
I have more that I can discuss on the book of Job if need be, I was trying to spare a lengthy post, but I would like to add,
Job 10:17 You renew Your witnesses against me, And increase Your indignation toward me; Changes and war are ever with me. 18 ‘Why then have You brought me out of the womb? Oh, that I had perished and no eye had seen me! 19 I would have been as though I had not been. I would have been carried from the womb to the grave. 20 Are not my days few? Cease! Leave me alone, that I may take a little comfort,
The saw-tawn is referred to by Job as GOD’S WITNESS. Job wants GOD to leave him alone.
Hi Jodi,
I don’t know about anybody else, but
I don’t read long posts w/o substance_______________
The Witness Ed =151Ed J,
I can totally understand why people dont want to read a long post.
Majority of my long posts use many scriptures, that is why most the time they end up being so long, so it is a very odd statement by you to say they have no substance. I highlight the text in a scripture so if people are skimming through they can extract quickly what the focus is.
Ed J,
The adversary in the book of Job, I claim through direct example of scripture is only an adversary to Job, not an adversary to God.
The adversary asks God for God’s Hand to inflict Job. God grants HIS HAND, clearly the adversary is God’s messenger carrying out God’s will.
Jodi….I have came to the same conclusion concerning Job. It was God the Father that took premptive action against Job, that can be determine, because it was GOD WHO BROUGHT UP JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE. It was all needful to deliever Job from potential problems growing in his character that could have destoryed him in the future.
The lessons of Job will be taught also in the thousand year reign of Jesus and the Saints. The whole earth is shilded, by Evil Being placed in the bottomless (bottomless because there is no end of evil) pit, but the earth will be shielded from it, and all the earth will only have good blessing and teachings for a thousand years by Jesus and the Saints, and after the thousand years regin evil is released back on the earth, an all the earth will turn against Jesus and the Saints, who will retract back to Jerusalem and the evil will cause armies of the world will come against it, and God the Father will bring fire down from heaven and destory them, why?, to prove a simple point. God must always abide “IN” you “forever” as he WAS “IN” Jesus and the Saints, who were the only ones spared FROM ALL THE EARTH BECAUSE GOD THE FATHER WAS “IN” THEM.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Jodi,
You seem to claim the right to appoint meanings of words according to your perception of their context etc.
You have assembled a dogma to defend and it seems that you cannot be wrong?
The thief comes to steal and destroy. He had stolen earth becoming it’s god by getting man to obey him. He was a murderer from the beginning and wishes to lead men to their destruction through blindly following him.
Job was aware that nothing happens except by the permission of God but that does not make our God a tempter.
Hi Jodi,
We know from Daniel and other places about the Watchers.
And from Prov 20.27 that God knows the heart of every man just as God in Jesus did.
‘The spirit of man is a lamp of the Lord, searching all the innermost parts of his being’
But the lamb in Rev 5 has the seven spirits of God , also seen in Rev 4 .5 .
Rev 1.20 identifies the seven stars in the hand of the Son of God as angels.
Zech 4.10 speaks of the seven as the eyes of the lord which range to and fro throughout the earth.
Nothing is hidden from the Creator.
Though the devil is used by God to test man his fate is predetermined.
Hi Gene,
Where do you find scriptural support for your idea that the 1000 year reign will be about teaching?
We are told that the sons of God will rule and reign with the Lord. 2tim.2.11. Rev 20.4 Heb 4
Should we add to what is revealed?
Hi Jodi,
There is no scriptural evidence that the role of the Watchers is anything but being the eyes of the Lord.
They are not appointed to be punishers or testers as far as I can see.
Satan was among the sons of God when he met with God.
Are these angelic sons as in Job 38.7 and Ps 89.6?
Hi Jodi,
You may not see Satan as an adversary to God but God has higher standards.
Rev 12.7 f
And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.
The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place for them in heaven.
The great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan,
who deceives the whole earth; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Nick….SO IF NOT TO TEACH US “all” SOMETHING, then why even have the despensation of, THE MILLENNIAL REGIN OF JESUS AND THE SAINTS FOR? Does God the Father do things void of reason or purpose? “Know you not you shall “all” be “taught” by God”, said Jesus, there is not a single thing ever done by God the Father that does not teach brother. Who is like our Heavenly Father who teaches us “all things”?. Thanks and praise be to our GOD AND HEAVENLY FATHER FOR EVER AND EVER. AMEN.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Nick….Satan has been used by God FROM the beginning to bring about God’s purposes from the get go, He was not acidently put in the garden to tempt Eve, that was all planned by God from the start, He used Satan as a “catilist” to speed up the process to shorten the time of “His” desired out come. Even as He uses him now to forward His PURPOSE TO TEACH US ALL ABOUT “GOOD AND EVIL”. WHY?, SO WE CAN ALL BECOME MORE LIKE HIM. IN “KNOWING GOOD “AND” EVIL”.
ANYWAY, I AM PRETTY SURE YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS.
Peace and love to you and yours brother……….gene
Hi Gene,
If God does not spell out the whole reason for the millennial rest of Hebrews 4 should we make one up?
We know he appoints his Spirit filled brothers as kings and rulers-Lk 19
and the earth is restored to the ways of God.
Ed J,
The adversary in the book of Job, I claim through direct example of scripture is only an adversary to Job, not an adversary to God.
The adversary asks God for God’s Hand to inflict Job. God grants HIS HAND, clearly the adversary is God’s messenger carrying out God’s will.
Hi Jodi,
That’s like saying Pilate was God’s messenger carrying out God’s will
…I guess you must believe that as well too, huh?____________
God bless
Ed JNICK…..I WOULD ASK YOU , WHY THEN WHEN EVIL IS CAST INTO THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, THE WHOLE EARTH BECOMES AT PEACE, even the nature of animales are changed, and after thousand years when the whole earth is at peace and the Saints with Jesus have rulled over the whole earth, and when evil is again released, the whole earth is turned back to evil and rebel against Jesus and the Saints? Why does scripture say “and they shall wear out the Saints of the most high, (how can you tell people that they need to be saved if all their lives they only saw and did good, because evil was not present). Can’t you see how hard it would be to tell them they need to recieve the spirit inorder to maintain t h e way of God, God must send to them his spirit to keep them like Jesus and the Saints have in them. The people will say to them, we haveno need of the spirit because we all ready do only good by our own choice, so evil is released on them and they turn against Jesus and the Saints, and they retract back to Jerusalem and they form armies and go to attack jerusalem, then God brings fire down abd destorys them. Just as scripture shown Nick. What is the BIG LESSON, YOU MUST HAVE THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD “IN” YOU TO KEEP YOU FROM SINNING, SOMETHING THE PEOPLE IN THE EARTH AT THAT TIME DID NOT HAVE.
A SIMPLE BUT VERY IMPORTANT LESSON ALL MAN KIND MUST COME TO CLEARLY UNDERSTAND. We only keep the way of God by the spirit he has given us brother. I hope this more clarifies my point Nick.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Ed J,
The adversary in the book of Job, I claim through direct example of scripture is only an adversary to Job, not an adversary to God.
The adversary asks God for God’s Hand to inflict Job. God grants HIS HAND, clearly the adversary is God’s messenger carrying out God’s will.
Hi Jodi,
That’s like saying Pilate was God’s messenger carrying out God’s will
…I guess you must believe that as well too, huh?Hi Ed J,
11 The work of his hands Thou hast blessed, and his substance hath spread in the land, and yet, put forth, I pray Thee, Thy hand, and strike against anything that he hath — if not: to Thy face he doth bless Thee!’12 And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Lo, all that he hath [is] in thy hand, only unto him put not forth thy hand.’ And the Adversary goeth out from the presence of Jehovah.The adversary asked God’s Permission to strike Job. God’s HAND and the adversary’s hand are one and the same because the adversary is one of God’s faithful angels.Did Pilate ask God’s permission? Was Palate serving himself or God? Do we EVER see Pilate being in the PRESENCE of God? Do we ever see the adversary in Job DISOBEY God? NO we do not!! Does the book of Job ever say that the adversary is of a wicked mind, and that he wants to do wicked deeds for wicked sake? NO!! Was the adversary a slanderer, or was he ABSOLUTELY CORRECT about Job? He was ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!Does Jesus believe that his crucifixion WASN’T the result of evil men?Job believed that his infliction came directly FROM God, and Job questioned God’s righteousness. Does the book of Job say that Job’s infliction CAME FROM God? YES!Did Jesus question God’s righteousness? Did Jesus ask God just to leave him alone, like Job did? NO Jesus did not!!There is no similarity to the adversary in the book of Job to that of Pilate. There is no similarity to how Jesus dealt with his suffering to that of how Job did, either.SIMPLE FACTS from the book of JobJob’s infliction came from God and it was delivered through an OBEDIENT MESSENGER who was CORRECT about the heart of Job.There is nothing in the book of Job that leads us to believe that the adversary was an adversary TO GOD, on the contrary we see the adversary as a LOYAL servant of God, carrying out God’s will. He was ONLY seen as an ADVERSARY TO JOB.Hi Jodi,
You may be impressed by the attitude of Satan to God in Job 1-2 but I see it as lacking respect.
Job2.5..but put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face
And the Lord said to Satan
”Behold he is in THINE HAND, but save his life”
God does not tempt.
Hi Gene,
If something is not revealed should we fill the gaps with logic and what we imagine is commonsense?
Hi Jodi,
“You may be impressed by the attitude of Satan to God in Job 1-2 but I see it as lacking respect.
Job2.5..but put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face
And the Lord said to Satan
”Behold he is in THINE HAND, but save his life”
God does not tempt.”
Hi Nick, I’m sorry that you feel it was disrespectful of the adversary to SPEAK the COMPLETE and UTTER truth to God! How horrible that must have been for God to hear someone speak the TRUTH. You are really grasping at straws here. Job did EXACTLY what the adversary said he would do. He cursed God quite a lot, and THEN some more where he got to the point that he asked God to just leave him alone. Job was offensive to God, Job was by all means the one who was disrespectful to God. When was the last time you even read the book of Job Nick? I am really starting to wonder.
So convenient how you say, ”Behold he is in THINE HAND, but save his life” and you leave OUT the part where the adversary had asked for God’s hand FIRST, thus making the hand of the adversary God’s hand. Also as already posted Job called the adversary God’s WITNESS.
You are right Nick God TEMPTS no one. However that is not what is occurring in the book of Job by any means. God is testing.
Pslams 7:9 Oh, let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end, But establish the just; For the righteous God tests the hearts and minds.
Pslam 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Zech 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
God knows the men who need testing, that is EXACTLY why God gave the adversary HIS HAND.
In the END JOB CALLED on the name of the LORD.
God does not tempt, but He certainly CURSES, TESTS, and REFINES.
Job was REFINED not TEMPTED and it was done through the hand of God’s messenger in complete OBEDIENCE to God and thus God’s will and God’s hand.
Nick can you admit that Job was in fact REFINED by God in the book of Job through the adversary’s OBEDIENCE to God?
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