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Hi Jodi,
Why do you follow the world in relegating the teachings of the Spirit to pagan superstition?
Do you not fear God?
Nick you said, ”
Hi Jodi,
Lk 14.11 does not say what you quote.
Lk 13.11f does.
But you seem to have deceptively missed the last statement of Jesus in v 16.
“And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound, lo these 18 years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?””
I have NOT DECEPTIVELY MISSED anything!
Have I NOT said that in the OT God is called a saw-tawn HIMSELF,and His messengers are called saw-tawn as well? Are CURSES not an ADVERSARY?
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live
Deut 28:15 “But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: 16 Cursed shall you be in the city, and cursed shall you be in the country. 17 Cursed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of your body and the produce of your land, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flocks. 19 Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. 20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me. 21 The Lord will make the plague cling to you until He has consumed you from the land which you are going to possess. 22 The Lord will strike you with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with severe burning fever, with the sword, with scorching, and with mildew; they shall pursue you until you perish. 23 And your heavens which are over your head shall be bronze, and the earth which is under you shall be iron. 24 The Lord will change the rain of your land to powder and dust; from the heaven it shall come down on you until you are destroyed. 25 The Lord will cause you to be defeated before your enemies; you shall go out one way against them and flee seven ways before them; and you shall become troublesome to all the kingdoms of the earth. 26 Your carcasses shall be food for all the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and no one shall frighten them away. 27 The Lord will strike you with the boils of Egypt, with tumors, with the scab, and with the itch, from which you cannot be healed. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you……58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues–great and prolonged plagues–and serious and prolonged sicknesses. 60 Moreover He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt, of which you were afraid, and they shall cling to you.
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Nick has not God said that He would inflict people and their descendants with all sorts of infirmities and sicknesses? Does He not say that I am the LORD, there is NONE ELSE, I FORM the DARKNESS, I CREATE EVIL, I the LORD DO ALL THESE THINGS? Do we not see HIM LITERALLY inflicting Saul with an EVIL SPIRIT? YES!!!!!!!!
What would you call the woman’s infirmity, her FRIEND or her FOE? What had her literally bound was her infliction that came through God. This infliction was an adversary to her.
Luke 13:16 (YLT) and this one, being a daughter of Abraham, whom the Adversary bound, lo, eighteen years, did it not behove to be loosed from this bond on the sabbath-day?’
My understanding keeps the TRUTH of GOD intact! You on the other hand speak of false gods inflicting man.
It is really quite simple Nick you either believe God’s OWN WORDS and understand scripture through those words, or you deny them and follow fables, teachings that were stirred up through idolatry and self-righteousness.
Hi Jodi,
Matt 8.16f
When the even had come, they brought unto him many who were oppressed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, AND healed all that were sick: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
Your interpretation is that
“scripture tells us directly that being posssessed with devils is nothing other than an infirmity”
Your self serving interpretations are all like that.
Why not believe what the Spirit says?
Jodi…..One simple question, what is A SPIRIT?, TO YOU?.
JODI…UNDERSTAND I AM NOT IN COMPLETE DISAGREEMENT WITH SOME OF THE THINGS YOU ARE SAYING HERE. I DO BELIEVE ALL LIFE HAS ONLY ONE SOURCE, RATHER IT BE GOOD OR EVIL, AND THAT SOURCE IS GOD THE FATHER. IMO
Nick has PRESENTED some VERY strong points also Jodi, THIS IS AN EXCELENT DISCUSSION, for those on meat of the word. Hopefully we all can come to a clearer conclusion with the help of God the Father.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Jodi,
All life comes from God.
All power originates in the creation of God.
But God tempts nobody and in Him there is no darkness or shadow of turning.
God is very tolerant for now but His judgements are already written.
God allows testing of the saved and the death of some.
It is foolishness to blame God for evil.
He owes nobody anything.
He is Sovereign.
Hi Jodi,
You look at the meanings of words such as devil and Satan
and because they can be used for humans too
you seem to assume that they always do.
False teaching.
Hi Jodi,
He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be at the end of the world.
The Son of Man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
mt13.37f
Which human enemies can you relate this to, since your view of the OLD MAN has been found to be erroneous?
Hi Jodi,
Eph 2.11
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision, in the flesh made by hands.
Eph 2.14f
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments, contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man.
You left out a phrase and changed the meaning of enmity in your third post first page.
Nick you said to me, “But God tempts nobody and in Him there is no darkness or shadow of turning” ”
It is foolishness to blame God for evil.”
Indeed as I have said several times and quoted James, that God tempts no one.
Yes it would be very foolish to blame God for evil that comes from sin, that comes from our own desires and our own imaginations.
I have clearly distinguished the difference between the word evil (RA) that is used in scriptures about what God brings forth out of His righteousness to carry out His plan, VERSES the evil (RA) that comes from within man.
Hi Jodi,
Out of the mouth comes what the heart is full of.
Whited sepulchres full of dead men’s bones.
Man is a vessel for sin in the flesh.
Either he produces fruit from the Spirit of God or he is a son of Satan producing evil fruit.
Two choices.
Hi Jodi,
So the ENMITY spoken of in Eph2.15 is between Jews and Gentiles, the Law, with the touchstone of circumcision, is superseded by the Law of the Spirit in the ONE Body of Christ.
Hi Jodi,
Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God.
Rom 8.7
The word used is the same.
But clearly there is no relationship with the meaning of Eph 2.15
Please be careful handling the sacred words.
Nick scripture is clear on what the enmity is,
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) …. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Jesus destroyed the enmity the carnal mind, he never once OBEYED his carnal mind, he ONLY OBEYED the Spirit of God. He produced a new man, the old man was the man that walked serving the false god, the carnal mind serving the belly/flesh.
Does our flesh tell us to serve it so we can survive?
Is that not a lie, for we must serve God in order to live?
Jesus said we cannot serve two masters we cannot serve God and mammon.
Does not a wild beast or a serpent only serve it’s belly?
Jude 1: 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain,and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit…22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:…26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
FROM what we KNOW NATURALLY. To know something NATURALLY is the PURE OPPOSITE of being deceived by a supernatural entity. Deception COMES THROUGH OURSELVES from what we KNOW NATURALLY.
This is exactly what happened in the Garden of Eden, it was what Eve knew NATURALLY, like a wild beast, and IT DECEIVED her.
Man is likened to wild beasts not because they are being influenced by a supernatural entity, but because their mind is set on what they know naturally.
But you just want to IGNORE all this Nick, and you want to accuse me of using my imagination when it is clearly written, that by one man SINNED ENTERED, and that wickedness comes from within.
As Jesus says we cannot serve God and mammon he also says,
Matthew 16: 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. 24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples,If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
This is EXACTLY what I am saying, there is a LIE created by our own nature that says that we must serve ourselves in order to live. What does man profit serving mammon? Peter is an adversary for having in mind the things of men, men who seek after serving the flesh instead of serving God.
The adversary, the devil, the old serpent, that RULES over us, that separates us from God, is our carnal mind.
When they Israelites sinned against God in the wilderness, when they murmured for water and food, it was a supernatural entity making them HUNGRY?..making them fear for their lives?… making them BLIND to have faith in the God? NO, their carnal minds was their adversary, their slanderer, making them like a serpent seeking to serve only their bellies.
Hi Jodi,
The NEW MAN is Christ Jesus.
The OLD MAN is occupied by LEGIONS of Satan’s servants.
Children of the devil, unwittingly led by the wicked one, the god of this world.
Hi. Jodi,
I know you are stuck in your dogmatic groove but the enmity spoken of in Ephesians, in context, is between Jews and gentiles.
Hi Jodi,
There is no doubt that temptation comes from within.
Man is a vessel for all sorts of vipers.
Hi Jodi,
Of course Jesus was speaking to a satan in Peter.
A satan that preferred service towards man to that towards God.
Humanism still has a big following.
Let’s look at this scripture again and see what else it applies to,
Jude 1: 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit…22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:…26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
Cain SINNED because he was acting like a BRUTE BEAST, like a wild animal that only knows to follow his own flesh, what he knows to follow naturally, not because he was influenced by some supernatural power.
1 John 3: 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No * one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous.
If you exchange the word DEVIL with the Carnal Mind, then it makes sense that Cain killed his brother because HIS DEEDS were evil. If you exchange the word with evil supernatural influences, it becomes absurd!!
-The one who practice sin is of the Carnal Mind-
-The carnal mind has sinned from the beginning-
-Jesus appeared to destroy the Carnal Mind-
-By this the children of God and the children of the carnal mind are obvious-
How does this fit with other scriptures?
-The one who practice sin is of the Carnal Mind-
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
21 For it is from WITHIN, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”
-The carnal mind has sinned from the beginning-
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin ….. For to be carnally minded is death Romans 8:6
-Jesus appeared to destroy the Carnal Mind-
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity 16 …having slain the enmity thereby:
24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
By this the children of God and the children of the carnal mind are obvious-
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Let’s do the same with the scripture below,
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
-him that had power of death, that is, the carnal mind-
Romans 8: 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Let’s try this one,
John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him;
-the carnal mind now put into the heart of Judas..to betray him-
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would….19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like:
Let’s try this one,
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
-Ye are of your father the carnal mind, and the lusts of your father ye will do–
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
-The carnal mind was a murderer from the beginning-
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
12…And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like
-The carnal mind was a liar from the beginning-
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper?
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
13 Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men.
12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.
Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices
——-
Genesis 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
It is very clear Nick, Cain killed his brother because HIS WORKS were evil, the carnal nature WAS IN the beginning and it was a liar and a murderer.
We reap iniquity by trusting in our own way and not trusting God’s way. God warned Cain that “sin” lieth at the door and “he” wanted to rule over him.
GOD DID NOT WARN CAIN of a SUPERNATURAL ENTITY that wanted to rule over him.
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