The serpent in the Garden of Eden

This topic contains 563 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  NickHassan 8 months ago.

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  • #821905
     Jodi 
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    Hi Gene,

    To the ancient Hebrews the words good verses evil meant functional verses dysfunctional.

    When man sinned God brought dysfunction unto the earth, infertility is one great example, to soil, plants, animals, and humans. The biological mechanism that causes infertility is certainly dysfunctional. People in places like Pakistan still believe that infertility is a curse from evil spirits.  It most certainly is a curse, but it is a curse from God when He brought dysfunction upon the earth. He brought forth many unclean spirits in like manner.

    God can bring forth dysfunction and it is done through and for a righteous purpose.

    Man can bring forth dysfunction but it is done by either pure unintentional ignorance or on purpose through intelligence for selfish gain.

    Let’s always be mindful of the words of Jesus, “

    Matthew 7:21 For it is from WITHIN, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

    A person makes HIMSELF unclean, he defiles himself. Wicked spirits come from man’s own heart. A wicked spirit, whether it be the spirit of envy, or slander, or murder, or deceit,..etc…comes FROM WITHIN MAN.

    So we have the unclean spirits that God casts, like He did with Saul, and we have the wicked spirits that come from within man, PRODUCED out of his OWN IMAGINATION.

    God can make humans infertile and He as we know, can heal them. Man likewise has produced toxins in this world that make humans infertile. They have designed toxins out of their own imaginations that cause side effects, sometimes unknowingly other times not. They tainted a tetanus vaccine given to young girls and woman in 3rd world countries to make them sterile. Many woman had miscarriage or delivered stillborn babies. These men act like gods administering population control, they have exalted themselves through their own imaginations creating evil, thinking highly of themselves believing they are doing good. God will CAST them DOWN!!

    2 Corinthians 10: 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    Ephesians 6: 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    The SPIRITUAL wickedness comes from man’s imagination. That is exactly what the scriptures say. It has exalted itself, and God will cast it down! The weapons of righteous men against these IMAGINATIONS are not carnal weapons, man does not war and win through his own self utilizing his flesh, but through God’s Spirit.

    Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. 3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

    Jeremiah 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

    Daniel 2: 27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king; 28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

    Daniel says that there is a God in heaven that can actually revealeth secrets, in comparison to the “wise men”, this is because the soothsayers speak lies of their own imaginations, as we are told elsewhere in scripture.  When the Egyptian ‘wise men” wanted to perform their “powers”, they gave the people both hallucinogens and also deceived them with magic, with deceptive tricks! If any man has any sort of TRUE powers or prophecies they come from God and God ALONE, and they are given to fulfill the will of God. There exists no unclean spirit that comes from some other supernatural power, if one attests to such, he is a deceiver working from his own imagination speaking from a spirit of falsehood defiling himself from WITHIN.

    Ezekiel 13: 3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

     

    #821906
     Jodi 
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    Adam and Eve were created with flesh and with the senses, to enjoy sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch. Adam and Eve wanted to eat the fruit because it was pleasing to the eye, they thought it would taste good. Upon the fall of man, they now ate the fruit not just for the taste to fulfill their desire, but also they had to in order to survive.

    Adam and Eve were also created as an independent creature with an intellect to compare and contrast, to be curious, to seek knowledge, to seek accomplishment, to be creative and create, and with an imagination necessary in order for us to be independent and individual.

    Adam and Eve wanted to be like God, but they didn’t know exactly what it meant to be God. What did they know of God anyway, or rather, what did they NOT know? They knew He was the Creator and had great wisdom and power in order to create.  We see that it was that wisdom that they desired.

    Adam and Eve were created ignorant.

    When we are given a test do we just want all the answers given to us? If we are just given the answers did we actually learn it, did we understand it, did we accomplish? I guess it really depends on the subject of the test, if we really care if we learned it or not, lol! The subject here though is to know God and to know ourselves. We were made ignorant for a reason.

    Ignorance is dysfunctional but it is to God’s glory and our own that we become functional through His wisdom.

    Palms 73: 22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.

    To be ignorant is to be like a beast. The serpent represents the ignorance of man acting without acknowledging God. Animals do not know of God they only know the flesh. The difference between animals and man in the flesh is that man can create dysfunction, while animals only function according to what God has established, whether it be the lion that eats meat, or the lion that eats grass.  The difference is that man can come to know God and thus learn to chose that which is functional. In order to be able to know God we had to be made self-aware, which produced a natural separation between us and God because of ignorance.

    We are separated by ignorance and our imaginations but can be unified by God’s wisdom. That is the serpent, the beast, the adversary, the old man, the prince or the king, the deceiver. All men are not under the influence of a supernatural entity, ALL men are under the same thing the influence of an ignorant imagination, this is WHY we are called FOOLS FOR FOLLOWING our OWN SPIRIT. 

    Whether animals are existing in the current dysfunctional world or the future functional world of peace, do they KNOW the difference? No, before the fall and after the fall they did not and do not know God. A man that does not seek and follow the wisdom of God remains as a SERPENT. The peace that will be restored on earth is for God and man’s enjoyment. The young child playing with the serpent, will be pleasing rather than the horror of a serpent that chokes, pierces, and devours a child.

    There is a functional way to fulfill our desires and a dysfunctional way to fulfill those desires. We are tempted by our own imaginations when we create in our own minds ways to fulfill our desires. Adam and Eve sure looked like fools thinking they knew how to fulfill their desire to become wise.

    Proverbs 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

    Jeremiah 4: 22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

    It’s not about not following the Serpent who is an influencing evil supernatural entity, it’s about not following the serpent who is a creature that does not have the knowledge of God.

    #821908
     Jodi 
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    Nick the scripture does not say that the serpent was deceived by someone else and then deceived Eve. But that is what you believe correct?

    The scripture says that the serpent deceived through it’s own craftiness.

     

    #821909
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You expound from your imagination.

    What is written is true.

    #821910
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The devil was a liar from the beginning.

    He is identified as the serpent of old in Revelation.

     

    Do we need your additions to scripture?

    #821912
     Jodi 
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    This is not my imagination but scripture

    The Dragon in Revelation are Kings

    The Dragon is called the Old Serpent

    Man is called a serpent

    Man is called a wild animal

    Man is called an adversary for having in mind the things of men

    Man is called a slanderer for following it’s own flesh

    Adam and Eve had fleshly desires of the senses of which they followed

    Serpents follow their fleshly senses

    Adam and Eve had desires of their minds, they desired to be wise

    By nature we are children of wrath when we fulfill the desires of the flesh and of the mind

    Sin entered the world through man

    Man is tempted by his own desires and becomes enticed to sin

    God warned Cain that sin lieth at the door and it wanted to RULE over him

    Cain sinned because HIS deeds were evil

    God placed enmity between the woman’s seed and the serpent’s seed

    “They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

    The carnal mind is enmity against God

    Jesus abolished in his flesh the enmity

    Jesus overcame his flesh through wisdom and strength from God’s Spirit

    God casts unclean spirits, He makes the deaf, mute, blind, insane, diseased

    Prophets, wizards, soothsayers following their own spirit, and speak lies and perform deceit.

    gods and their demons have no powers, they cannot walk or talk, they cannot do any evil or any good

    Pharisees believed in these demons

    Pharisees were said to be blind

    Pharisees are called serpents, hypocrates

    Pharisees were adversaries unto Jesus, provoking him to speak so they could persecute him.

    Man invents gods and their demons through their imaginations

    The adversary in the book of Job followed all of God’s commands and his work brought Job into righteousness

    The bond woman and the freewoman are allegorized as the 2 covenants

    ———

    The devil in Revelation 2 is defining a man as a slanderer, we know it was a man that literal threw men into prison. We know that men slander from their own spirit.

    You allegorize the devil to stand for a rebellious supernatural entity, that influences man to do evil. You deny the words of Jesus that wickedness comes from within and defiles a man.

    Peter is called an adversary for having in mind the things of MEN,

    You allegorize that when Peter was called adversary, it meant that a rebellious supernatural entity was influencing Peter. You deny the words of James that says temptation comes from within out of man’s own heart.

    Nick you allegorize the serpent as a creature that you believe is self-evident in the scriptures, but it is truly not! There is not one scripture as you admit that actually identifies this individual to who he is. He has NO NAME. How can you represent one thing to another when the other is never shown to exist in scripture? One could say Peter was the serpent in the Garden, that would be more scriptural then what you speak!

    Satan- directly called a man

    Devil-directly called a man

    Satan-is never scripturally identified to actually be a rebellious supernatural entity from another creation

    Devil- is never scripturally identified as a rebellious supernatural entity from another creation

    You have followed a doctrine of pure imagination because you conveniently disregard the obvious connections of scripture.

    For instance, Cities, MEN, and Kings are said to dwell in heaven, God’s prophets were said to dwell in His abode, and God casts them down.

    The Dragon and his messengers are said to be kings and God casts them down, but you say there is a casting down from literal heaven of a rebellious supernatural entity that influences the kings.

    I define Revelation 12 according to what the scriptures have actually shown us, that men are said to dwell in heaven metaphorically, and we do know that it is men that are going to persecute the remnant, and we do know that men are wicked because they follow their own flesh and not the wisdom of God.

    You accuse me of imagination, but it is you my friend that is way out in left field, you need to ask the coach to put you at center.

    We have the old serpent and likewise we have the OLD MAN!!

    Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

    Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

    John 8: 44 “You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by NATURE the children of wrath, even as others.

    Old Man- one who speaks lies

    Old Man-deceitful lusts

    Devil-desires of our fathers who speak lies from their OWN NATURE

    Children of the devil are those that by their VERY NATURE are children of wrath.

    Serpents live off of their OWN NATURE, what a PERFECT metaphor that Eve was deceived by the serpent/her OWN NATURE.

    Do not be deceived by your own NATURE, the flesh

    Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh;

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    We MIND the flesh, the flesh is an adversary it is a slanderer. When powerful men mind the flesh joining forces they become a dragon ready to devour. The flesh is ignorant, the flesh separates us from the truth and knowledge of God by our OWN imaginations.

    There is not a scripture that says we MIND the FLESH, that we follow our OWN NATURE because we are influenced by invisible supernatural evil creatures.

     

     

    #821913
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    No you did imagine it.

    The great dragon, the serpent of old, also known as Satan and the devil.

    Rev 12.9

    A most inconvenient verse for those with imagination.

     

    Did I miss the accuser of the brethren in v 10.

    And the devil had great wrath being thrown down to earth so beware.v12

    Then the dragon (Satan, the devil etc)gets busy.

    Perhaps you missed it?

     

     

    #821914
     Jodi 
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    True Story,

    A young boy was taken to mental health counselling by his parents because over a period of time the boy started to change his behavior, he was liking typical girl things and acting like a girl, even telling his parents he was a girl.  The therapist learned early on from the boy’s own words that the boy believed his parents liked girls more than boys. He had a younger sister and he perceived through his imagination that his parents liked girls more than boys, so he decided he would get more attention and be liked more if he also was a girl. His imagination led him to believe something that was false. When he learned from his parents that this was not true in the slightest he soon changed his behavior back to the young boy they knew. The boy’s sister might have very well gotten more attention, it could have been because she was younger and had more needs, nothing to do with the fact that she was a girl. Or maybe the parents did dote on their daughter more than the boy, but it didn’t mean that they loved her more.  Because of the boy’s desire for attention and affection, which is according to our nature, that desire and his ability to compare caused in him to have envy and fueled his imagination to problem solve, with him creating in his mind that it was because she was a girl, and thus he needed to become a girl.

    It is very common for kids to become envious over younger siblings who do tend to get more attention. Some children will even behave badly, because they find that attention for being bad is better than no attention at all. Envy is a product of desire when our desires are not being met as we see fit.

    This boy certainly had an unclean spirit in his heart, a spirit causing him to go the wrong way, telling him to be a girl, telling him to be bad to get attention. This unclean spirit was produced in his own mind being fueled by his ignorance, his imagination, because of his natural desire for attention.

    Thanks to the knowledge of his father, and the understanding he received from him, that infants often do need more attention, and that they do love boys just as much as girls, he overcame the evil spirit in his heart.

     

     

    #821915
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Interesting.

    Thank you.

    #821916
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi…tell me who is cast into the bottomless pit for a thousand years then? Is it men or is it all evil or (disfunctional) things . AND if it is mans own imaginations in them, that is the devil and satan, does that mean all mankind will be cast into the bottomless pit also? When this takes place why does all created flesh take on new natures, if these things come from the persons themselves?

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #821917
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    What an incredible child.

    Capable of planning, analysing and reacting to all the complex feelings and emotions involved.

    Most adults are not capable of this – and to logically decide to reverse decisions based on these imaginations.

    To then be able to understand and relate it all to others shows unbelievable maturity.

    Amazing.

     

    Of course you could not help adding in your own sympathetic interpretations.

    Muddies the water and spoils the story in my opinion.

    #821919
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You offer

    “We mind the flesh. The flesh is an adversary, a slanderer.”

     

    Imagine that.

    Your flesh is your enemy.

    A sad situation for you to be at war against your own body.

    Gal 5.16f

    But I say to you walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets it’s desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice these things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

     

    Paul calls out the responsibility of each individual to abhor sin in the flesh and to listen to and learn from the Spirit.

    He does not focus on the defeated enemy, Satan, but calls for restoration and rebuilding in Christ Jesus.

     

    #821920
     princess 
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    Hi Princess, hi nick. 

    The desperate seek anything to worship. They fashion their gargoyles and idols. yes they do. 

    Yes worship of earthly demons has it’s fans. yes it does

    No but I say that the things which the gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God: and I do want you to be sharers in demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table and the Lord and the table of demons. 1Cor 10.

    light cannot prevail until it is dark, dark cannot be without the light. your dark may be someone’s light, and your light could be someone’s dark. do you bring more light or dark into the world. Solomon may disagree with you regarding demons. he did both. most assured your familiar with the verses that deal with this.  or do you need a scripture lesson attached so you understand. 🙂 

    As has the worship of female pseudodeities. you don’t seem like a son that would not love his mother. at one time you worship her. she was your everything. how hard is it for you to understand that cultures had women gods. there is a reason. you think bearing a child would never be painful, did any of your founding fathers every get hurt, sick. so only at the beginning females didn’t feel pain. childbearing is pain. well, strike up another one for eve. funny, how that works. 

    The children gather the wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven.Jer 7 oh look you just referenced the son, the father and holy ghost. I shorten the version of course, what did I tell you about those 3’s nick. 

    Plenty of options. with plenty of beliefs to choose from. 

    But life is short. as long as you find some beauty in this life its worth the time. 

    #821921
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    The letters of Paul are not addressed to the world.

    They are addressed to those who are the saints.

    Those who have come out of Satan’s grasp.

     

    They are forgiven and set free from the Law of sin and death.

    The work of Paul is to ensure their freedom is complete.

     

     

    #821922
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Isis, Astarte, Asherah are among the idols.

    The whore of Babylon collects a crop too.

    But for us there is one God, the Father.

    #821924
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You say

    “Man invents God and their demons through their imagination.”

    Really?

     

    Jesus cast out demons.

    Are you saying scripture lies?

     

    But  you rely so much on it for your dogmas.

    #821925
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You say

    ”…we have the wicked spirits that come from within man, produced out of his own imagination”

    Really?

    Do they have their own life within men?

    Are they able to converse with men?

    Are these the evil spirits dealt to by the servants of God?

     

     

    #821926
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You have rewritten Genesis as your own fairytale.

    All to defend your dogma.

    Will it pay off?

    #821927
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You quote Paul in Romans 8.7

    ”..because the carnal mind is enmity against God”

    I struggle to find it written that way.

    Which version did you use?

    #821933
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    This wisdom is not that which comes down from above but is earthly, natural , demonic.

    For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist there is disorder and every evil thing.

    Jas 3.15f

    Demonic fruit manifests as evil.

     

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