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God gave his son, God sent his son. In other words, Jesus did not become the Fathers son when he was born of Mary; he was his son long before then. After all, did he not create everything?
Col. 1:16 “ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth…”
If Jesus had become a son when he was born of Mary; should not the Holy Spirit be his father?
Mat. 1:18 “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary
was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of
the Holy Ghost.”
You must have wondered about that yourself. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, is he God? Is he a person? Do we know his name? Does he have a name? I don’t mean “helper” or “comforter”; those are not names, that is what God’s Holy Spirit does, he helps us, and comforts us. Should it not surprise us that everything in the Universe has a name?
Ps. 147:4 “ He telleth the number of the stars, he calleth them all by their names”.
Except the one (person?), whom we credit with being most influential in our Christian life, the Holy Spirit? If the Holy Spirit was a person, was God, God would have made that very clear in scripture, and again, it would make the Holy Spirit another equal to God. This is only more confusion. Many will reason and say, Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit as a “he”, that is prove of a person.
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send, in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
If one little word, “he”, is prove that the Holy Spirit is a person, than the same must be said of another little word, “her”.
Mk. 13:28 “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near.”
Now you may not find the word “her” in all translation, but it is in my bible, “The Ryrie Study Bible, King James version”. And even if it were present in every bible, no one would assume the fig tree was a woman.
There is not a single scripture that says, the Spirit is God, all scriptures say, the Spirit of God, God’s Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of the Lord. Never is the Spirit addressed in the way we address the Father or the Son; and both are called by their name, so why is the Holy Spirit never called by his name? He has no name; he does not exist, as a third person that is.
I have a question; who raised up Jesus from the dead, God, meaning the Father, or the Spirit?
Acts 13:30 “But God raised him from the dead.”
So, is Paul contradicting himself when he says in Romans it was the Spirit?
Rom. 8:11 “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
It was the Spirit OF God that raised up Jesus, not another person. God has a spirit, Christ has a spirit, Paul had a spirit, I have a spirit, you have a spirit, everybody has a spirit; we call it a mind. You never heard any one say; are you out of your spirit? Or, have you lost your spirit? Whether we call it spirit or mind, its all the same, the difference is; God’s Spirit is Holy, ours is not.
May I also bring to your attention that Paul’s letters, Peter’s and John’s, all start with, “Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ”, never a mentioning of the “Holy Spirit.” If I was the Holy Spirit I would feel left out, wouldn’t you?
Paul always gives thanks to the Father.
Rom. 1:8 “First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all…”
1 Cor. 1:4 “I thank my God always on your behalf…”
Phil. 1:3 “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you.”
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
1Thes. 1:2 “We give thanks to God always for you all…”
My point is this; considering what the Holy Spirit does for us, would he not deserve some thanks too?
John says, if we abide in the doctrine of Christ we have both, the father and the Son; should we not have all three?
2 John 9 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son.”
v. 10 “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God’s speed.”
Very powerful words, should really make us think!
Why would we even think that our God, who is all wise and all-powerful, would need another person to do all his work? When God wants something done, all he has to do speak the word and it is done;
Ps. 33:9 “For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.”
Let me make another point.
Rev. 3:1 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things says he that has the seven Spirits of God…”
Why haven’t we heart about God’s seven Spirits? Are they all persons? Seven is God’s number of perfection. The seven Spirits of God only emphasize his perfect Holy Spirit. Paul says there is a spirit in man;
1 Cor. 2:11 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which
is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
This spirit in us, should we ask who is he? Or should we ask what is it? This spirit is our mind; it is what sets us apart from the animals. This mind enables us to learn how to read and write to calculate, to think, to plan and build, with it we make choices, all the things God does. That is the image of God, he has created us in, but it is not another person. We influence other people by example and by what we teach them. God influences us with his Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit. Paul writes to the Philippians;
Phil. 2:5 “ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.’
This mind that was in Jesus was the mind of God, Gods spirit, his Holy Spirit.
Why would Paul say?
Eph. 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
Eph. 4:6 “ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.
Col. 1:3 “We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ…”
And what else can this next scripture mean except what it says;
1 Cor. 15:28 “And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also
himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”
Some people think, God is to complicate to be understood, that’s because some people have made God to complicated to be understood. God in his word, the bible, has given us everything we need to know about him; if we go beyond that, its like going to the moon, trying to find out how life began.
Anyone that dares to tamper and distort these scriptures should keep in mind what Paul says in,
Gal. 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”
Those who are our teachers should take this scripture very serious.Hi,
God is one.
God is in heaven and is invisible Spirit
The Spirit of God ever proceeds from that one God.
That Spirit unites our God with His Christ and with all who are in him.Hi,
God lives in His church as or by His Spirit.
Eph2
19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.Hi Steve,
In another thread you quoted Jn16
” 20Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.21A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
22And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. “
I believe it reflects 2Peter 1
” 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: “The light within dispells the darkness
Hi,
In another thread david said.“Many websites have stated that Ronald “denies the trinity, calling the Holy Spirit “not a separate being” but simply “the power of God” “
From the JW official site
'THE Bible's use of “holy spirit” indicates that it is a controlled force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish a variety of his purposes. To a certain extent, it can be likened to electricity, a force that can be adapted to perform a great variety of operations. “What does scripture say?
Jn16
” 13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. “
Rom8
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. “
1Jn2
' 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.It seems that the anointing Spirit of God is more than just the power of God.
Hi 94,
Do you say the spirit of Christ was with God in the beginning?
In which case the spirit of Christ spoken of in Rom 8 is not the Holy Spirit that anointed Jesus at the Jordan and which we share?Rom8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.??
Hi,
In the OT God filled His chosen servants with His SpiritPsalm 51:11
Do not cast me away from Your presenceAnd do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.but they were few in Israel and God's Spirit was rather WITH the people.
Isaiah 63:11
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock?Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,Now Christ has opened the door to all men reborn into him to be filled with that Spirit.
Matthew 3:11
“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.In the time of Christ's reign we will see that Spirit of God poured out on Israel in even greater glory.
Jl2
27And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Hi,
Acts 19
Acts 19
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7And all the men were about twelve.
So those who have received the Spirit of God should KNOW they have done so.
Rom 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.It is ESSENTIAL
Lk11
13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?It is POSSIBLE
Hi,
It is possible to study the bible and, using logic and sound techniques, extract truth from it.
But that is not helpful unless the words reach our hearts and invoke an obedient response.
Truly we still must be reborn of water and the spirit as knowledge is useless alone.LU
Thought I would post this in this thread to help explain my view of the Spirit.
Blessings! WJ
*A challenge for the Unitarians, Henotheist, and Arians*
Please tell me based on the following scriptures how do you reconcile them from any other view but a Trinitarians?
How do you explain the following scriptures?
1 Cor 2:13
*For by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made *to drink into one Spirit*.Eph 4:4
There is one body, and *one Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;II Cor 3:17
Now the *Lord is that Spirit*: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.We see many scriptures that show that Jesus – The Spirit of God – The Spirit of Christ – God – The Father – Spirit of him – The Spirit – His Spirit – Comforter – Holy Spirit that are terms being used in speaking of *God dwelling in our Body* the Temple of God, the Temple of the Holy Spirit or the Temple of Christ.
That “ONE Spirit” is not only called the above, but also the following.
*The Spirit of God*
Matt 3:16, Matt 12:28, Rom 8:9,14, 15:19, 1 Cor 2:11, 14, 3:16, 7:40, 12:13, Eph 4:30, Jn 4:2
*The Spirit of Jesus*
Gal 4:6, Acts 16:7, Rom 8 9,10, 2 Cor 3:16-18, Phil 1:19, 1 Peter 1:11
*The Holy Spirit or Comforter or Holy Ghost*
Lk 3:16, 11:13, 1 Thess 4:8, Jn 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:13-15, Matt 28:19, Mark 1:8, 3:29, Lk 1:15, Jn 7:39, Jn 20:22, Acts 1:5, 1:8, 2:33, 10:38, 13:2
These terms are used synonymously and are referring to the “ONE God”, and yet we know they are different persons.
The Apostles speak of them interchangeably! And clearly they are not always referring to the Father or to the Son, for they may be saying “Spirit of Christ” “Spirit of Jesus” “Spirit of God” “The Spirit” “Holy Spirit” Spirit of the Son” “His Spirit” “Holy Ghost” “One Spirit” “Spirit” “Comforter” “Spirit of Truth” “Finger of God” “Living Water” “Life giving Spirit”
Yet the Word clearly says there is only “One Spirit”. Since we know there is only “One God”, then we have to conclude that the “One Spirit” is the “One God”.
The following scriptures bear this oot…
Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God* dwell in you. Now if any man have not the *Spirit of Christ*, he is none of his.
10 And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the *Spirit of him* that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by *his Spirit* that dwelleth in you.Now we see most of the terms I mentioned earlier in Rom 8:9,10,11. A close look at these scriptures shows Paul uses the terms interchangeably to describe the “One Spirit”.
They are all living within us!
Look and see!
*Father*
II Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as *God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them*; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.*Son*.
II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the *Spirit of Jesus Christ*, Phil 1:19
*Holy Spirit*.
I Cor 6:
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the *Holy Ghost which is in you*, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.Jn 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Jn 16:
14 *He shall glorify me*: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.These words are interchageable and mean one thing, that there is three persons that dwell in us!
If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture…
Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*.Does the Father cry Father?
Yet we know God dwells in his people!
Look and see…
The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit divinely and unequelly and wonderfully joined together as ONE!
God dwells in us!
God = Father, Son And Holy Ghost!
This is scriptural!
Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the *name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*.Hope this helps to explain what I mean about the “One Spirit” that we have all been made to drink into and that dwells in us.
WJ
Hi WJ,
Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.[Acts10]
But God did not anoint him with another member of any trinity did He?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2008,18:33) Hi WJ,
Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.[Acts10]
But God did not anoint him with another member of any trinity did He?
NHIs Acts 10 the sum of your undrstanding of the Spirit of God?
Why dont you reconcile the tons of scriptures that I mentioned?
How do you explain three living in us yet One Spirit?
Hi WJ,
Tons of tortured and twisted verses do not make one truth.
If you cannot reconcile Acts 10.38 you should start again.
And if you are humble and love scripture you would do so.Quote (t8 @ Aug. 05 2004,18:33) Colossians 1:15 KJV
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:NIV
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.NASB
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.YLT
who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,WE
The Son is like God who cannot be seen. He was his Son before anything was made.Although the last version probably takes a lot of licence with it's interpretation, it is what I believe.
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.I personally believe that Jesus was begotten of God before creation and God created all things through him and for him. We (creation) were made in God's image; from God through Christ.
Jesus Christ is the firstborn and the only one to come directly from the Father.
1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.I believe that this line of authority is all the source lineage.
i.e. the woman came from man. Man came from Christ and Christ came from God.
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.John 16:27
No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.Tatian (165 A.D)
“For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him”.
I am bringing this up, because I truly believe that this is the truth.
Peace and Love Mrs.WJ,
How about a combo spirit? You can get them seperately or all together. If two people can become one flesh why can't two spirits become one spirit in an even fuller way than when they were seperate.BTW, what is everybody doing up so late:(
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