The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,14:23)

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 18 2007,11:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,13:29) Hi Oxy, We know sons become independant life forms from their fathers. Do spirits of beings become independant beings from their life source? God gives of His Spirit to His Son and the Son gives of that Spirit to his brothers. Does God lose His Spirit by sharing or does the son? No that Spirit of God ever unites them with God. One Spirit. You are right in saying that the Son becomes independant from His Father, but yet He is still One with the Father. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is seperate from the Father, otherwise how could the Father send Him? And tho He is seperate, still He is One with the Father.  God does not lose His Spirit as He is omnipresent. Hi OXY, So he was not really a son but it is a euphemism for remaining one being with God? Funny that because it says he is a son.

Once again you are misquoting me. I NEVER said that!

I think it is pretty pathetic the way you always look for a way to criticise.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,11:33)

If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say, then Yeshua is the Son of a breath or a force.

If the Holy Spirit of God fathered the messiah, then God is his Father.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 18 2007,12:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,11:33) If the Holy Spirit is not a person as you say, then Yeshua is the Son of a breath or a force. If the Holy Spirit of God fathered the messiah, then God is his Father.

t8

So then you believe the Holy Spirit is the Father?

If that is true then the Holy Spirit is a person!

So how does that work with John 16;13?

But the question is when did the Holy Spirit Father Yeshua?

Was it not at his natural birth?

If this is true, then he was not a Son untill he came in the flesh!

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus [Mt 1.20].
If the Spirit is another person from God
how is Jesus the Son of God?

[Oxy]

I agree t8. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary exactly as the Scriptures describe, making God the Father of Jesus.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,11:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,03:16) Hi all! If the Holy Spirit is not a person then maybe someone can explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me:  for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Well at least we know that the dove was NOT female!

kenrch

Are you laughing at the words of Yeshua or the Holy Spirit?

Would you belittle the nature of the Holy Spirit as being gentle as a dove?

You do realize that it was not a litteral dove that descended on Yeshua dont you?

So instead of mocking why dont you explain the verses?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,13:00)

Hi WJ, Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus [Mt 1.20]. If the Spirit is another person from God how is Jesus the Son of God?

NH

If the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus, (Which I agree), then that would mean that the Holy Spirit is a person and is God!

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
If the Holy Spirit is a person and not the Father,
then the Father is not the father of Jesus and that is nonsense.
The Spirit of God is OF GOD.

[Oxy]

The Holy Spirit is indeed the Spirit of God, but is not the Father. He comes FROM the Father to do the Father's bidding.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
God is in heaven and does not leave but does His work in his creation by His own Spirit.
Gen 1.2
Never another person from God.

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,15:14)

Hi Oxy, God is in heaven and does not leave but does His work in his creation by His own Spirit. Gen 1.2 Never another person from God.

So does that mean the Spirit is actually the Word of God? Because according to Scripture:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

Which raises another interesting point. If the Word of God was God's first creation, the the Word created Himself. Tricky.

[kenrch]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,13:04)

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,11:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,03:16) Hi all! If the Holy Spirit is not a person then maybe someone can explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Well at least we know that the dove was NOT female! kenrch Are you laughing at the words of Yeshua or the Holy Spirit? Would you belittle the nature of the Holy Spirit as being gentle as a dove? You do realize that it was not a litteral dove that descended on Yeshua dont you? So instead of mocking why dont you explain the verses?

WJ does God have a gender? Why do you limit the Spirit by implying that the Spirit is a HE?

My point WJ is that the Holy Spirit is God and IT.

Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate person.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
Does scripture say the Word was created?
Begotten is used of the Son.
Was the Spirit WITH GOD?
Scripture does not say so yet those who would make a trinity should find such things written.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,13:26)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,13:04) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,11:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,03:16) Hi all! If the Holy Spirit is not a person then maybe someone can explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me:  for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Well at least we know that the dove was NOT female! kenrch Are you laughing at the words of Yeshua or the Holy Spirit? Would you belittle the nature of the Holy Spirit as being gentle as a dove? You do realize that it was not a litteral dove that descended on Yeshua dont you? So instead of mocking why dont you explain the verses? WJ does God have a gender?  Why do you limit the Spirit by implying that the Spirit is a HE? My point WJ is that the Holy Spirit is God and IT. Act 2:3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate person. Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

kenrch

Then you should white out John 16:13 out of your Bible along with others. If the Spirit is just an it then it is just an it that lives in us.

Yeshua is also called the bread of life nd a vine, does that mean he is bread and a vine and not a person?

Sorry, I dont serve an it!

[Oxy]

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,15:26)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,13:04) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,11:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,03:16) Hi all! If the Holy Spirit is not a person then maybe someone can explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me:  for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Well at least we know that the dove was NOT female! kenrch Are you laughing at the words of Yeshua or the Holy Spirit? Would you belittle the nature of the Holy Spirit as being gentle as a dove? You do realize that it was not a litteral dove that descended on Yeshua dont you? So instead of mocking why dont you explain the verses? WJ does God have a gender?  Why do you limit the Spirit by implying that the Spirit is a HE? My point WJ is that the Holy Spirit is God and IT. Act 2:3  And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate person. Act 2:17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

A Father always USED to be male. These days, who knows?

Seriously though, God FATHERED Jesus, which is a pretty clear indication.

As for the Holy Spirit, if Jesus calls Him “He”, then guess what, I'll go along with that.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
With what?
Implication??

[Worshipping Jesus]

kenrch

You say…

Quote

WJ does God have a gender?  Why do you limit the Spirit by implying that the Spirit is a HE?

I hope so. He is our Father isnt he? Am I limiting God by calling him a he?

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,15:29)

Hi Oxy, Does scripture say the Word was created? Begotten is used of the Son. Was the Spirit WITH GOD? Scripture does not say so yet those who would make a trinity should find such things written.

Scripture does not say the Word was created, but some who post here seem to think that He was, using their misunderstanding of the following Scripture to justify it.

Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:

Sorry, this is from the Preexistance thread

[kenrch]

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 18 2007,13:30)

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,15:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,13:04) Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,11:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 18 2007,03:16) Hi all! If the Holy Spirit is not a person then maybe someone can explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Well at least we know that the dove was NOT female! kenrch Are you laughing at the words of Yeshua or the Holy Spirit? Would you belittle the nature of the Holy Spirit as being gentle as a dove? You do realize that it was not a litteral dove that descended on Yeshua dont you? So instead of mocking why dont you explain the verses? WJ does God have a gender? Why do you limit the Spirit by implying that the Spirit is a HE? My point WJ is that the Holy Spirit is God and IT. Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. The Holy Spirit is NOT a separate person. Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: A Father always USED to be male. These days, who knows? Seriously though, God FATHERED Jesus, which is a pretty clear indication. As for the Holy Spirit, if Jesus calls Him “He”, then guess what, I'll go along with that.

The Holy Spirit is Male? The Spirit of God is God and can be whatever HE wants. Is the bride of Christ all females? What gender is the Body of Christ?

God bless,

Ken

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,15:32)

Hi Oxy, With what? Implication??

Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He” 8 times in the following 2 verses. You call that an implication??

Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.

On top of that, Jesus addresses the Holy Spirit as “Himself”

Also the Holy Spirit hears, guides, announces, speaks, and glorifies Jesus.

And you say He is an it?

[Author]

Posts