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Hi w,
You quote col2,
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”So IN CHRIST lives God.
God was IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself[2Cor5]So Christ was not also THAT WHICH WAS IN HIM.
Niether was any TRINITY GOD IN HIM for that makes FOUR.
A vessel like US.
God is at work in US too to will and to do[phil]Olive
You say…
Quote So wj, what of all the scriptures above? Could you maybe explain to me how those scriptures disprove the Trinitarian view or contradict these scriptures?
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Can you honestly say the Father is sent by Jesus and the Father does not speak of himself and the Father speaks only what he hears and the Father takes from Jesus and gives to us?
You can white out these as well as others if you want, but I have chosen to believe the words of our Lord and God.
You say…
Quote You seperate then combine, the seperate again. Blah. At least you did take one thing from my post. Danger, you use it quite frequently now, must have been painful to hear such words, due to the way you spat them back at me. You know wj, there will be a day Praise YAH, that we will not have the scriptures to run to, to search. Only what the spirit brings forth, blessed be the day.
Boy you really don’t like John 16:13-15 do you? The scriptures “came forth” from God and this is what God says about his word…
Matt 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, *Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled*.
19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: *but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven*.We should run to the scriptures for they…
1 Pet 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.You say…
Quote No wj, I just like the words grace and favor, they appeal to me. Why the sarcasm?
You say…
Quote Sounds too much like legion………..wj
I am of one spirit, not many.I assume the “One Spirit” you speak of is the Father, is that correct?
Then how do you explain these?
II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?Phil 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.Do you have “2 Spirits”, the Father and the Son?
You say…
Quote
wj, are you using reference as accordingly:
Man=Nick,T8, Ken
Woman=olive, not3in1, charityYou have three titles to one God, without one being God. Seperate then combine.
wj, if you even for a moment think you have the purest form of scriptures………..
No inference here. Just pure scripture.
The scriptures say…
Rom 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:The heavens declare his Glory. You say “separate then combine”. The very building blocks of the creation is based on “Plurality of Oneness”.
Can you give me an example of anything in creation that is totally singular?
The molecular structure of the entire universe is the “atom”.
Whereas the word atom originally denoted a particle that cannot be cut into smaller particles, the atoms of modern parlance are composed of subatomic particles: Protons, Neutrons, Electrons.If you are married you are one flesh with your husband yet you are separate persons.
Why is it so hard to believe that God is One and yet plural.
God = Father, Son and Holy Spirit!
I said…
Quote
I must not be doing a good job here, because I never said the Spirit is a “different Spirit”.You said…
Quote AND HIS PEOPLE STOOD TOGETHER SAYING AMEN !!!!!! Thanks for the “much love to you wj, may his peace be upon you”, words of encouragement!
You say…
Quote
You cannot attach a person (flesh) title to spirit, for flesh and blood do not enter into the kingdom, need I say it slowerF L E S H A N D B L O O D, D O N O T E N T E R T H E K I N G D O M.
Which gives the groaning and wailing of DANGER DANGER.
HMMM. Not sure what you mean but, if you are implying that Jesus is flesh and blood, are you saying that is all that he is? “Flesh and Blood”.
We have just seen scriptures that says Jesus is Spirit. You seem a little angry here. Could you elaborate on what exactly you mean?
Blessings!
Hi W,
Inference and Logic is no basis for adding to scripture
and stating that God's own Spirit is another person from Him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2007,08:37) Hi W,
Inference and Logic is no basis for adding to scripture
and stating that God's own Spirit is another person from Him.
NHPlease give me a quote or example of scripture where you think I am adding.
These are Jesus words NH. Was he just making inference?
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2007,09:04) Hi W,
Does scripture say the Spirit of God is another person.
No.
So why do you teach this?
NHIf you take away the word “person” from the Holy spirit, then what do you have?
The same thing the JWS have. An “Impersonal” Spirit that is only a power or a force.
This makes you a desciple of the modern day Arians!
Spawned by the JWs cult.
Hi W,
What nonsense.
God was fully manifest in Christ in nature and power and you say just an impersonal force?
That same Spirit manifests Christ in the sons of God now.
You do not understand God at all it seems.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2007,02:47) Kenrch You say…
Quote
Three persons AND one Spirit.Aren't these your words?
They told me that 3+1 =4
Are you trying to say that the Trio are IN one Spirit who happens to be one of the Trio?
If that's the case AGAIN what Spirit is the Holy Spirit in?AGAIN: GOD IS NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION
Now since we know the Father, Son and Comforter is One Spirit.
Then by your math you take away the Spirit then The Father Son and Comforter are “Nothing”.
So lets try it your way.
Father and Son and One Spirit!
2+1=3
So you still have a trinity!
Yes you are right God is not the author of confusion!
It's there for all to see WJ. You said three persons AND one Spirit. Did you make a mistake? Just say so…I made a mistake OR don't you ever make a mistake.Truth is WJ you are so confused that you don't know what you believe anymore.
All are in the Spirit of God. But the Spirit of God is not IN another Spirit as you have said.
3 persons and one Spirit. This is what you said!
How does that make 3?
The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and NOT a separate person that is in another Spirit.
It must be terrible being a slave to the Harlot trying to make wrong right.
Quote Now since we know the Father, Son and Comforter is One Spirit. But that's NOT what you said WJ. You said that the Trinity is now three persons AND one Spirit.
Now you are changing your mind again!
The comforter IS God's Spirit. God's Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter [Holy Spirit] is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even [who is] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
The Comforter (Holy Spirit, Spirit of truth) comes FROM the FARHER.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God is a Spirit who is able to share Himself. The Holy Spirit comes FROM the Father.
Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Jesus They are ONE.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may BE ONE IN US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jesus' prayer is that we would be ONE with the Father and Himself.
Quote So lets try it your way. Father and Son and One Spirit!
2+1=3
So you still have a trinity!
The problem is that you are counting the Spirit as a third separate person. You see it's not 2 + 1, IT'S 2 IN 1!
Jesus IN the Father and we IN Jesus and the Father in ALL.
I don't know where your third person is in all of this?
Two with the same Spirit. Jesus' prayer was that we would ALL be one in the Spirit. At the end of this age ALL will be in the Holy Spirit because God will be ALL in ALL (1Cor 15:28).
The Harlot must make things difficult to hide the truth.
Twist and turns and lies are the way of the Harlot. She makes a mystery of the plain simple truth.
IHN&L,
Ken
Kenrch
Again Kenrch, as in the last go round we had I end with this.
I wish you the very best. I hope and pray that we all continue to grow in his grace and his knowledge until we come to the unity of the faith.
Blessings!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2007,11:56) Hi W,
What nonsense.
God was fully manifest in Christ in nature and power and you say just an impersonal force?
That same Spirit manifests Christ in the sons of God now.
You do not understand God at all it seems.
NHWell no. I dont understand you.
You say the it is not written the Spirit is a person, now you say he is.
Because if the “Spirit manifest Christ in the Sons of God”, (these are your words arent they) then is not the Spirit a person since Christ is a person?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2007,12:50) Kenrch Again Kenrch, as in the last go round we had I end with this.
I wish you the very best. I hope and pray that we all continue to grow in his grace and his knowledge until we come to the unity of the faith.
Blessings!
I pray that we would all be one, just as Jesus prayed. In some ways I suppose we are, believing that He is the Son of God that paid our debt so we could become His brethren.To me if one believes the above then they are my brothers and sisters in Christ no matter how much they are deceived. We will all be one some will simply have to accept that they were deceived and then accept the truth.
But to say that one is not in Christ because they don't believe as we do is to judge that only is reserved for the Father. Only God knows the heart!
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2007,12:57) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2007,11:56) Hi W,
What nonsense.
God was fully manifest in Christ in nature and power and you say just an impersonal force?
That same Spirit manifests Christ in the sons of God now.
You do not understand God at all it seems.
NHWell no. I dont understand you.
You say the it is not written the Spirit is a person, now you say he is.
Because if the “Spirit manifest Christ in the Sons of God”, (these are your words arent they) then is not the Spirit a person since Christ is a person?
Hi W,
Your words again not mine.
You really should put aside your idea of persons.
Christ is among us as the Spirit of Christ from the Spirit of God.
We are together in Christ in God.NH
Where is this written?
Quote Christ is among us as the Spirit of Christ from the Spirit of God.
Wow, all this time and it just accured to me that you dont even believe the Father is a person!First of all NH. Christ is in us.
Secondly, your statement “the spirit of Christ is “from” the Spirit of God” is not written.
Spirit of Christ from the Spirit of God.
Two Spirits?
No.
Spirit of Christ, Spirit of God, selfsame Spirit.
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.1 Cor 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the “selfsame” Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.Do you see 2 spirits here NH? …
Phil 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of “the” Spirit of Jesus Christ,Gal. 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth “the” Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.2 Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access *by one Spirit unto the Father*.HMMM! How do you explain that one!
Hi W,
You blindly continue to stumble over the obvious.
Let me tell you one more time about God and His Spirit.
God poured of His own Spirit to the fullness into His Son who poured that Spirit into his brothers.That Spirit ever proceeds from God through the Son into us.
One God
united with
One appointed Lord Jesus
united with
US brothers in the Spirit of God.JOIN US
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2007,08:30) Quote Could you maybe explain to me how those scriptures disprove the Trinitarian view or contradict these scriptures? Wj, read the scriptures, they give account to the powers of the spirit. We are given a gift once the spirit is received, do you know what yours is?
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.WJ, maybe is it is because you only read the 'portion' of the verse, read all of it, w/o thinking of defending the trinity.
the spirit of truth
Joh 17:17 sanctify them in Thy truth, Thy word is truth;
what he hears, what he speaks,
Joh 3:34 for he whom God sent, the sayings of God he speaketh; for not by measure doth God give the Spirit;
show you things to come.
Joh 4:23 but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him;
Christ words that are written are truth, what he spoke was taught by the father, he told us of things to come. No difference. Christ did not come to glorify himself. Try to open your heart and hear the words, you are very good on cross referencing scripture.
Joh 7:18 `He who is speaking from himself his own glory doth seek, but he who is seeking the glory of him who sent him, this one is true, and unrighteousness is not in him;
Wj, you refer to:
Jn 16:15
Mat 7:9-11 `Or what man is of you, of whom, if his son may ask a loaf–a stone will he present to him? and if a fish he may ask–a serpent will he present to him? if, therefore, ye being evil, have known good gifts to give to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?
Quote You know wj, there will be a day Praise YAH, that we will not have the scriptures to run to, to search. Only what the spirit brings forth, blessed be the day. Boy you really don’t like John 16:13-15 do you?
I have it highlighted in my scriptures? I think you missed the meaning to the statement,
Mar 13:11 `And when they may lead you, delivering up, be not anxious beforehand what ye may speak, nor premeditate, but whatever may be given to you in that hour, that speak ye, for it is not ye who are speaking, but the Holy Spirit.
You reference: Matt 5:
Let's dicuss this on another thread, what I was meaning, you think you have the purest form of scriptures, if this be so, why is the warning giving:
Rev 22:19 and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'
Quote We should run to the scriptures for they… 1 Pet 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.You have settled a challenge, that I ask earlier, explain your trinity theory to a child, I did this with my son, once I learned of these teachings, he looked at me like where is my mother and what have you done w/ her.
WJ, you ask:
You say…
No wj, I just like the words grace and favor, they appeal to me.
Why the sarcasm?Does grace and favor not appeal to you? How can that be sarcasm. It is salvation.
You say…
Quote Sounds too much like legion………..wj
I am of one spirit, not many.I assume the “One Spirit” you speak of is the Father, is that correct?
Then I will assume that the many spirit's you have dwelling in you are not legion? So you are saying w/ what you write, that Christ is above the Father.
That the spirit is of Christ…….not of Yahweh.
Quote Do you have “2 Spirits”, the Father and the Son? No, Wj, I said of one spirit, the same spirit as Christ, Paul, Peter, John, Moses, Abraham, Luke. I worship the same Yah also, the one that puts forth his spirit, decends like a dove.
You ask:
Quote Can you give me an example of anything in creation that is totally singular? The begotten son.
Quote If you are married you are one flesh with your husband yet you are separate persons. 1Co 11:3 and I wish you to know that of every man the head is the Christ, and the head of a woman is the husband, and the head of Christ is God.
Family, WJ…..family.
Quote Why is it so hard to believe that God is One and yet plural. Why is it so hard for you to believe, that you are part of that plural, that you speak of?
I said…
Quote
I must not be doing a good job here, because I never said the Spirit is a “different Spirit”.You said…
AND HIS PEOPLE STOOD TOGETHER SAYING AMEN !!!!!!Thanks for the “much love to you wj, may his peace be upon you”, words of encouragement!
WJ, I love you, my friend. Nothing more nothing less.
Quote HMMM. Not sure what you mean but, if you are implying that Jesus is flesh and blood, are you saying that is all that he is? “Flesh and Blood”. wj, straw…….
Quote We have just seen scriptures that says Jesus is Spirit. You seem a little angry here. Could you elaborate on what exactly you mean? Not angry wj, I did not write in anger, I have been given correction in my anger. You wrote to Nick, that (cannot find the post) in the manner that you just realized that Nick does not believe the Father is a person, which I stand in agreement w/ Ken and Nick, hence flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom.
Person is flesh, I am a person, you are a person, Yahweh is not a person……..that is why we are given spiritual bodies when we enter the kingdom. Yahweh is not flesh, he sent the flesh to us, being the word, being the fullness of him. Christ returned to Yahweh in spirit.
scripture feed and spirit bred.
Much love to you and yours wj.
Not3,
In the Trinity thread you wrote this:Quote (Not3in1 @ June 30 2007,18:33) OK, I'll take a stab at this. 1. The heavenly Father is the only God
2. Jesus is the only begotten of the only God
3. The holy spirit of God – is God himself
4. The Father is the only true God
When I read what you wrote about the Holy Spirit this verse came to mind. I wonder if you could comment on it for me.Romans 8:26-27
26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.Does “God” make intercession to Himself?
Hi Is 1.18,
Do your hands serve you?
Can you feed yourself without your hands helping you?
The Spirit is as the finger of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2007,19:13) God poured of His own Spirit to the fullness into His Son who poured that Spirit into his brothers. That Spirit ever proceeds from God through the Son into us.
One God
united with
One appointed Lord Jesus
united with
US brothers in the Spirit of God.JOIN US
I feel this is true, but do you think that the spirit does not exist? Even though the spirit was poured into his brothers, God can still have this spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2007,22:17) Hi Is 1.18,
Do your hands serve you?
Can you feed yourself without your hands helping you?
The Spirit is as the finger of God.
NHDoes your finger talk to you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2007,22:17) Hi Is 1.18,
Do your hands serve you?
Can you feed yourself without your hands helping you?
The Spirit is as the finger of God.
My hand doesn't serve me, no, it is part of me. If I lose it, I have lose part of me. At any rate, I think the hand analogy falls a long way short of explaining some of the detail we read in Romans 8:26-27. In these verses we see that the Holy Spirit not only is intelligent (the act of intercession requires this), but is also a seperate intellect to the Father. If one party makes intercession to another they must be different persons. We see this even more clearly in light of this statement:“He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit“
The Holy Spirit has a mind, and His mind is known by “He who searches the hearts” (cf. Revelation 2:23)
I would like to have some comments from Not3 here….
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