The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[Anonymous]

my point is, who was Paul refering to? He uses this term to denote Jesus does he not?

[Proclaimer]

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (2 Corinthians 3:17, ESV)

I would have thought that it was referring to God (Yahweh) in this case. We know that we can be forgiven for words against Christ, but blasphemy against the Spirit cannot. So is the Spirit greater than Christ? Well if the Spirit is God's essence then yes it may be so.

Who I am is my mind. What I am is man. Similarly can I say the same thing about God? i.e., What is God? He is Spirit. Who is God? He is the Father.

These are my thoughts and I am open to correction.

[Anonymous]

Quote (trettep @ Mar. 25 2005,03:09)

The term Lord is applicable to both the Son and the Father because they are both the members of the Godhead at this time. Paul

Hi Trettep,
What do you mean by “at this time”?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Lets look at Acts 20.24f
” But I do not consider my life to be of any account as dear to myself, so that I might finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
And now, behold, I know that all of you among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face. Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God . Be on your guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the CHURCH OF GOD, which he purchased with his own blood.”

Was it the blood of God?
Was it the blood of the Spirit of God?
No it was the blood of Jesus, the Son of God.

The church of God is the body of Christ and it was his blood that was shed to purchase our salvation.

[Anonymous]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2005,03:43)

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (2 Corinthians 3:17, ESV) I would have thought that it was referring to God (Yahweh) in this case. We know that we can be forgiven for words against Christ, but blasphemy against the Spirit cannot. So is the Spirit greater than Christ? Well if the Spirit is God's essence then yes it may be so. Who I am is my mind. What I am is man. Similarly can I say the same thing about God? i.e., What is God? He is Spirit. Who is God? He is the Father. These are my thoughts and I am open to correction.

t8,
You changed this post. Seems to me that you aren't too sure of yourself here. I hope your'e not letting your theology getting in the way of the truth.

[NickHassan]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 25 2005,03:43)

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (2 Corinthians 3:17, ESV) I would have thought that it was referring to God (Yahweh) in this case. We know that we can be forgiven for words against Christ, but blasphemy against the Spirit cannot. So is the Spirit greater than Christ? Well if the Spirit is God's essence then yes it may be so. Who I am is my mind. What I am is man. Similarly can I say the same thing about God? i.e., What is God? He is Spirit. Who is God? He is the Father. These are my thoughts and I am open to correction.

Hi t8 and MM,
Jesus, clearly, is not The Spirit.

The Spirit of God was sent by the Father and filled Jesus.

So, as you say, this verse can only refer to the Father, who IS Spirit.

[Proclaimer]

Modem Mouth you are way of track with your words.

I started a post and put in something like 3 letters (if I remember the letters were “asd”. Then I edited the post to say what I wanted to say.

Why?

Simply because I wanted the post to follow the previous one as I was answering the question that you asked there. Sure I could have quoted you, but I was saving room and making it a bit easier for the readers by reserving the next post after yours, before someone else got it.

Your accusation is untrue. Perhaps you are off track with your teaching too. After all you may believe in the Trinity, but you also believed that I was altering my posts to suit when I wasn't doing that. You were wrong here and could be elsewhere. I could be wrong too. But I do seek truth everyday with honest intentions.

In my opinion changing one's posts to suit would be like going back in time and changing what you have done. I think that it is atually a form of dishonesty. If I make a mistake or change my stance I will say why in another post, because it is about changing when truth is presented and encouraging others to change with truth.

Ramblinrose changed her posts to suit with no consideration for the way the coversation flowed, and I disagreed with that as it seemed to be reputation first and truth second.

I have always said that there is no problem changing spelling or making your point clearer. But changing the message is not endorsed on this Forum and all old posts can be restored as backups are regularly done.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2005,03:16)

Hi t8 and MM, Jesus, clearly, is not The Spirit. The Spirit of God was sent by the Father and filled Jesus. So, as you say, this verse can only refer to the Father, who IS Spirit.

I agree with your view.

[Anonymous]

t8,
Not an accusation, just an observation. And the original post was opposite to what you later posted. Something like “yes, it would seem that way”.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Ben Elohim @ Feb. 22 2005,20:45)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2005,20:10) Hi BE, 2Cor 4 16 “Therefore do not lose heart ,but though OUR OUTER MAN IS DECAYING, yet OUR INNER MAN IS BEING RENEWED day by day” How do you explain this scripture? It means WHO we are in our hearts is being renewed by the Spirit of God and WHAT we are is decaying human bodies.. Please note how this discourse ends Nick – resurrection of the body. See 2 Corinthians 5:5 to understand why the “inner man” is being renewed just as your mortal body “outer man” will be renewed on that Day.

Hi BE,
I seem to have missed this post.

2Cor 5.3f
“For indeed in this house,we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, inasmuch as we, having put it on, we will not be found naked.
For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened because we do not want to be unclothed, but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. Now he who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Spirit as a pledge”

So WE[soul] live in a house[body]and at the resurrection we are not left naked but put on a new heavenly body. The proof given us as evidence of this fact is the Spirit of Power whose comfort and teaching we enjoy.

It reminds me of Ps 49.13
” This is the way of those who are foolish and of those after them that approve their words. As sheep they atre appointed for sheol to consume so that they have NO HABITATION”

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Guest @ Mar. 26 2005,04:24)

t8, Not an accusation, just an observation. And the original post was opposite to what you later posted. Something like “yes, it would seem that way”.

Not true. It contained 3 letters that were unintelligible. I randomly typed out a few characters with my left hand. I even noticed that when I did that, I typed out the same 3 letters that I always type when I do this. i.e., “asd”.

If you look at the previous post written by trettep, you will notice that he said “Yes, I would say those are all valid points“. Then there was your post and then I replied with 3 letters (asd) initially. I don't think it takes a genius to work out why you thought what you thought. BTW trettep was answering my previous post.

A simple apology would be good.

[stroshow]

nick & t8

I guess my questions was if the holy spirt isnt a person, How could he talk,send and call for others,act,teach??

[Anonymous]

Thats OK t8, you don't need to apologise.

Seriously though, the original post I read was an entire sentence with one unintelligible word in it. This sentence agreed with me, then you changed it.

But whatever the reason, I really don't care that much. If I have upset you, then yes I do apologise. I'm not questioning your integrity.

[NickHassan]

Hi MM,
That is the most non accusatory accusation and the most non judgemental judgement I have seen for a while.

At least you were consistent and also wrote a non apologetic apology to go with it.

C'mon MM. Lets keep the discussion of scripture and not on personal attacks. That's too easy and we all fail don't we?

[stroshow]

can anyone else who doesnt think the holy spirit is a person tell me how could he talk,send and call for others,act,teach?? or break down the verses i showed up top and tell me something im not seeing? thanks..

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is
come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall
not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear,
that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to
come.

[NickHassan]

Hi SS,
God is in heaven. He is spirit.
He Sent his Son to earth and filled him with His Holy Spirit.
So the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus.
When Jesus went back to the Father he sent the Spirit to us.
The Spirit is the nature and power of God and knows God just as our spirit knows us.
The Spirit is the expression of the Father revealed in Jesus on earth so is not of separate nature or name.

[Anonymous]

Quote

He Sent his Son to earth and filled him with His Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus.

Nick,
Paul was also filled with the Holy Spirit, so why wasn't He also called the spirit of Paul? I don't follow your logic.

Galatians 4
God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

Would the Fathers own spirit call out “abba, Father” to Himself? Think it through.

[stroshow]

Nick, thats fine if you think that.. But my point is how could the Holy spirit be gods spirit, send people,forbid people, speak on its own? To me that sounds like a person… Are u just dismissing those Scriptures?

[NickHassan]

Hi ,
Somehow my last two efforts to post replies here have been eaten up by cyberspace but I will try again.

The Spirit of Jesus filled Paul and fills all in Jesus.
The Spirit of Jesus calls in us to his Father as we are in him.
The Spirit of Jesus in us serves God and helps us worship the Father.

I deny no scriptures that say the Holy Spirit is separate from the Father as there are none.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Guest @ Mar. 26 2005,23:49)

Thats OK t8, you don't need to apologise. Seriously though, the original post I read was an entire sentence with one unintelligible word in it. This sentence agreed with me, then you changed it. But whatever the reason, I really don't care that much. If I have upset you, then yes I do apologise. I'm not questioning your integrity.

Thats cool. I can assure you that however it came across to you, I wasn't agreeing. I was simply starting a post.

I am not upset about it really. But now that I think about it, I think we are both right. I definately remember posting quickly to secure the next position and then I started to edit the post but later opened up Notepad and copied it what I had written and continued writing from there.

I can now see that it was also possible (but I am not sure) that the beginning of the post may have been posted again after that.

In fact I think I have worked out what happened. My post starts with the following sentence:

I would have thought that it was referring to God (Yahweh) in this case. We know that we can be forgiven for words against Christ, but blasphemy against the Spirit cannot. So is the Spirit greater than Christ? Well if the Spirit is God's essence then yes it may be so.

What if the first sentence was posted in part. If so, it could have read as:
I would have thought that it was

Just an idea. Does that look like what happened? If so, then we were both right and both misunderstood.

Funny how we can misread each other. But I suppose when we persevere, we can get the truth eventually.

[Author]

Posts