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Quote (kenrch @ June 06 2007,13:11) What is this Spirits name …Hey you! The same as the third separate person of the Trinity. That's even more confusion when you say hey you both will answer 
KThen you deny yet another scripture!
Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:These are the words of our Lord and he speaks of “Three” here with a singular name!
Quote (kenrch @ June 06 2007,15:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,11:54) Quote The Father (Spirit John 4:24) Son (who is one with the Spirit) and then their is somehow another spirit according to the Harlot.
WHO is this spirit?
We have and scripture says that their is one Spirit and God is that Spirit.
So again I ask what spirit is the SPIRIT (GOD) in.Three IN one. Does that or not include the Holy Spirit?
IHN&L'
K
The Spirit is not in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit, Just as the Father is Spirit, Just as the Son is Spirit.
One spirit.
Now who is this “person”, “Comforter”, Spirit of Truth, Jesus talks about that the Father and Jesus will send?
The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)You obviously use a lot of white out, or are these pages missing in your bible?
K. You are purposely ignoring these scriptures.
What are you afraid of? Why dont you address them?
According to Jesus words is there “Another” or not?
I don't know is the comforter yet another spirit
Just how many spirits are their?
The Holy Spirit is a person that comes from the Father?
Doesn't scripture say there is one spirit
KSo the Father was subservient to the Son?
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)One God, Three Persons, One Spirit.
This is the only explanation!
Zech 7:11
But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,13:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,12:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,11:49) Hi W,
You said“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!'
But this is theological gibberish.
God as Spirit is greater than Christ
NH“Blaspheme” Greek…’blasphemeo’
1) to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate, blaspheme
2) to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed atNH
Are you saying that men cant Blaspheme The Father or the Son?
You are making inference again if you say that the Spirit is greater than the Son because of Blasphemy!
I know you like to think this disproves the Trinity but you are mistaken.
For again Jesus is greater than the Spirit for he sends the Spirit. Isnt that what you believe Jesus means when he says…
Jn 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom *I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus, who is greater?)I know you would like to think that what Jesus is saying is the servant is less a human than the one who is over him, but servitude dosnt mean one is greater in being!
The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are One God and each person in this One God has a role.
Check it out…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Does this mean Jesus is greater than the Spirit?
Hi W,
The Spirit was GIVEN to Christ.
God gives without repentance.
The Spirit given to Christ was the Spirit GIVEN by Christ to his Body on earth-it could not be GIVEN till he ascended.
But the treasure within his blessed vessel was always greater than the vessel itself.
He was only the Son of God and the Spirit is of God, Who he told us was greater than he is.
So with us we have this great treasure in earthen vessels.
NHThe treasure that was in his flesh which was his vessel is himself the Word that was with God and was God and was “Tabernacled” among us and we beheld his Glory as of the Only begotten of the Father.
Jn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt (Tabernacled) among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.The Father and the Holy Spirit was also in him!
Quote (olive @ June 06 2007,09:27) Sorry Wj. I get fustrated sometimes. It is no laughing matter regarding our salvation. Please forgive.
OliveI know what you mean!!!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,17:37) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,13:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,12:14) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,11:49) Hi W,
You said“If you blaspheme the Holy Ghost which is God then you have just cut off the only one who can bring you to Jesus who is God in the flesh and our only Savior who alone has the power to forgive sins!'
But this is theological gibberish.
God as Spirit is greater than Christ
NH“Blaspheme” Greek…’blasphemeo’
1) to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate, blaspheme
2) to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed atNH
Are you saying that men cant Blaspheme The Father or the Son?
You are making inference again if you say that the Spirit is greater than the Son because of Blasphemy!
I know you like to think this disproves the Trinity but you are mistaken.
For again Jesus is greater than the Spirit for he sends the Spirit. Isnt that what you believe Jesus means when he says…
Jn 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom *I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus, who is greater?)I know you would like to think that what Jesus is saying is the servant is less a human than the one who is over him, but servitude dosnt mean one is greater in being!
The Father and Son and Holy Spirit are One God and each person in this One God has a role.
Check it out…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Does this mean Jesus is greater than the Spirit?
Hi W,
The Spirit was GIVEN to Christ.
God gives without repentance.
The Spirit given to Christ was the Spirit GIVEN by Christ to his Body on earth-it could not be GIVEN till he ascended.
But the treasure within his blessed vessel was always greater than the vessel itself.
He was only the Son of God and the Spirit is of God, Who he told us was greater than he is.
So with us we have this great treasure in earthen vessels.
NHThe treasure that was in his flesh which was his vessel is himself the Word that was with God and was God and was “Tabernacled” among us and we beheld his Glory as of the Only begotten of the Father.
Jn 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt (Tabernacled) among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.The Father and the Holy Spirit was also in him!
Hi W,
Is it not the same as for us then?2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.We are not following him?
Yet he too was fiilled with the Spirit.
Lk4
'1Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert,'WJ, I certianly don't want to take up any of the Harlot's habits and start confusion.
What is your definition of the trinity?
Now you say that the Spirit is not in another Spirit. Then how are the TRIO one?
Was Jesus filled with the Holy Spirit or the comforter, spirit of truth.
I'm after the truth and I'm not here to argue.
Ok, the comforter IS the Holy Spirit.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
This is the Spirit that Jesus was full of without measure, correct?
The Holy Spirit (comforter, Spirit of truth) comes from the Father and Jesus will send the Spirit .
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:The comforter, the Holy Spirit (they are one in the same John 14:26) would not come unless Jesus would be resurrected.
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter [Holy Spirit] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit (comforter) that the comes from the Father that he was full of without measure.
Of course this is the Spirit in 1Cor 12.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.The comforter is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God(1Cor.12:3). Is the Spirit of God a separate person? Is your spirit a separate person?
If you are able to send your spirit to other people to guide and teach them is it you or another person that is sent?
Of course we are unable to do that but the Father can and does send His Spirit (comforter, Holy Spirit) which is NOT another person. If God's Spirit were another person then the Spirit would have a name, just as Jesus and even we have a name.
The Holy Spirit is sent by Jesus because Jesus paid our debt. If it were not for Jesus we would not be able to receive GOD'S SPIRIT.
To recap:
The comforter, Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit. John 14:26; 15:26; 16:12. 1 Cor 12:3, 11. What is God?
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.If this is true then let it be true.
IHN&L,
Ken
Wj,
In the Hebrew scriptures, Yahweh chose men, due to their faith and works, abraham, noah, david, moses, joesph.
When these were chosen they received grace, or Yahweh's spirit. David speaks much of this.
Psa 84:11 For a sun and a shield is Jehovah God, Grace and honour doth Jehovah give. He withholdeth not good To those walking in uprightness.
Gen 6:8 And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.
In receiving this grace, the spirit of Yahweh, would speak to them, come in dreams.
Now there is no denying this, if you do then I truly feel there is no hope for you.
Luk 2:40 and the child grew and was strengthened in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.
So, we know that the spirit was, is.
Now, I know this might be a little hard to handle, since you are one that runs to the scriptures and says 'See it is written', but you must remember (why I want to call you david, I don't know) WJ, the spirit is the teacher, you have repeatedly used the scripture w/ the word 'another', now mind you wj, we know that scripture was altered, but the spirit cannot be altered, it does not teach of another.
So, how can one 'claim' that the spirit is a different one. The spirit has been established, even through the Hebrew scriptures.
Now, I know you defend the trinity w/ your life. Your zeal is heard and seen with your words.
See, Wj, through Christ's prayer to Yahweh, no longer do we have to wait upon the Father to chose us, when we accept Christ, we are given the spirit.
Why do you think the Holy is added to the spirit all the time.
Isa 6:3 And this one hath called unto that, and hath said: `Holy, Holy, Holy, is Jehovah of Hosts, The fulness of all the earth is His glory.'
Luk 4:18 `The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because He did anoint me; To proclaim good news to the poor, Sent me to heal the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives deliverance, And to blind receiving of sight, To send away the bruised with deliverance,
Joh 14:26 and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
There is not another.
Joh 15:26 `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father–the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
John 14.16, is the only scripture that reads another comforter, why is that wj, why does John 14.26, 15.26, 16.7 only read comforter?
Isa 23:4 Also–when I walk in a valley of death-shade, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy rod and Thy staff–they comfort me.
Why would not the spirit testify of Christ? Christ testified of Yahweh, as being the true and living God. They are one.
There is a new teaching of the trinity, the word they use is 'seperatness', since they have to defend this, just as the councils did, they must create to secure their doctrine.
We don't have to be creative w/ words, to understand the meaning of scriptures.
I truly feel that John 4, was the proper scripture to bring to you. Christ speaks of 'you know not what your worship, we worship what we know'. Yahweh is spirit, and those worshipping him, need to worship in truth and spirit.
The spirit teaches, not of another.
Blessings on your endeavor to find the truth, worship in spirit, for Yahweh so searches for those that do.
much love to you wj, may his peace be upon you.
Hi W,
Lots of words.
Then you say
“Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit!”
Sadly you cannot find it written.
So just lots of words.Kenrch
Sorry!
The last part of my post was partly a reponse to Olives post!
OOPS!
Olive I will be posting a response soon! Blessings to both of you!
Hi W,
You say
“1. There is One God.
2. There is One Spirit
3. There is Three “Persons”Two out of three are WRITTEN
The last is added by men.Hi w,
You quote
“1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit”
and say
“( Again 2 persons are mentioned!)”Not So.
ONE BEING.God, who sends HIS SPIRIT.
Olive
You say…
Quote Wj, In the Hebrew scriptures, Yahweh chose men, due to their faith and works, abraham, noah, david, moses, joesph.
When these were chosen they received grace, or Yahweh's spirit. David speaks much of this.
Psa 84:11 For a sun and a shield is Jehovah God, Grace and honour doth Jehovah give. He withholdeth not good To those walking in uprightness.
Gen 6:8 And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.
In receiving this grace, the spirit of Yahweh, would speak to them, come in dreams.
Ok, I agree that the Spirit spoke to the men of old. But you show 2 scriptures that dosnt even mention the Spirit and I am assuming you are trying to say that Gods Spirit is the Father that exclusively spoke to them or did the work.
Lets look…
Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.Here we see “God” created, then we see the “Spirit of God” moved! Now it is not clear here if God and the Spirit of God are the same person.
But it dosnt say “God moved upon the face of the waters”, it says “The Spirit of God” moved…!
Later we read…
Gen 1:26
And God said,*Let us make man in our image*, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.Here we see us! Who is this us. Well since scriptures clearly bear out that ‘God alone” created the heavens and the earth, then we have to conclude that the us is Jesus according to John 1:3, Col. 1:16 and the Spirit according Ps 104:30, Job 33:4.Which of course would mean that we have three present.The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Check these out…
Num 11:25
And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and *took of the spirit that was upon him*, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.Num 11:29
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would *put his spirit* upon them!Job 26:13
*By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens*; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.Isa 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, *and his Spirit, hath sent me*.Isa 63:11
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that *put his holy Spirit within him*?Eze 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will *put a new spirit within you*; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:While these scriptures are not proof of a third person, the language indicates that “The Spirit” spoken of is subservient to YHWH. Much like the Holy Spirit Jesus speaks of.
You say…
Quote
Now there is no denying this, if you do then I truly feel there is no hope for you.There is always hope my friend!
You say…
Quote
Luk 2:40 and the child grew and was strengthened in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.So, we know that the spirit was, is.
Now, I know this might be a little hard to handle, since you are one that runs to the scriptures and says 'See it is written', but you must remember (why I want to call you david, I don't know) WJ, the spirit is the teacher, you have repeatedly used the scripture w/ the word 'another', now mind you wj, we know that scripture was altered, but the spirit cannot be altered, it does not teach of another.
!!!Danger Danger!!!
“we know that scripture was altered”
“we know that scripture was altered”
“we know that scripture was altered”
!!!Danger Danger!!!
Hence, all of the confusion. When we can change one scripture, then why not change others.
Sorry Olive. I don’t hold your view toward the scriptures. Hundreds of scholars have sacrificed their lives, some with their on blood, to bring us the purest word possible. Besides I believe God is able to preserve the scriptures. Until you or I or anybody else has any “Proof” that certain scriptures were altered then we should believe the Apostles and Jesus concerning the scriptures.
2 Peter 2:19
We have also a *more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed*, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:Jesus said there is “Another Comforter” the Father will send, and I believe his words. Especially when the context clearly shows it to be true.
You say…
Quote So, how can one 'claim' that the spirit is a different one. The spirit has been established, even through the Hebrew scriptures. I must not be doing a good job here, because I never said the Spirit is a “different Spirit”.
I have maintained the Spirit is “One”. Yet we see three persons in us by that “selfsame” Spirit!
You say…
Quote Now, I know you defend the trinity w/ your life. Your zeal is heard and seen with your words. See, Wj, through Christ's prayer to Yahweh, no longer do we have to wait upon the Father to chose us, when we accept Christ, we are given the spirit.
Why do you think the Holy is added to the spirit all the time.
Again, the scriptures dosnt need me to defend it. But yes, I will stand by them with my life!
Yes, when we believe in and accept Christ, then we receive the Spirit and are born again.
But who is the Spirit that we receive?
Lets see who this “One Spirit” is.
*The Spirit of God*
Matt 3:16, Matt 12:28, Rom 8:9,14, 15:19, 1 Cor 2:11, 14, 3:16, 7:40, 12:13, Eph 4:30, Jn 4:2
*The Spirit of Jesus*
Gal 4:6, Acts 16:7, Rom 8 9,10, 2 Cor 3:16-18, Phil 1:19, 1 Peter 1:11
*The Holy Spirit or Comforter or Holy Ghost*
Lk 3:16, 11:13, 1 Thess 4:8, Jn 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:13-15, Matt 28:19, Mark 1:8, 3:29, Lk 1:15, Jn 7:39, Jn 20:22, Acts 1:5, 1:8, 2:33, 10:38, 13:2
These terms are used synonymously and are referring
to the “ONE God”.The Apostles speak of them interchangeably! And clearly they are not always referring to the Father or to the Son, for they may be saying “Spirit of Christ” “Spirit of Jesus” “Spirit of God” “The Spirit” “Holy Spirit” Spirit of the Son” “His Spirit” “Holy Ghost” “One Spirit” “Spirit” “Comforter” “Spirit of Truth” “Finger of God” “Living Water” “Life giving Spirit”
There is only one conclusion one can draw from these scriptures. And that is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God!
You say…
Quote
Isa 6:3 And this one hath called unto that, and hath said: `Holy, Holy, Holy, is Jehovah of Hosts, The fulness of all the earth is His glory.'Luk 4:18 `The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because He did anoint me; To proclaim good news to the poor, Sent me to heal the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives deliverance, And to blind receiving of sight, To send away the bruised with deliverance,
Joh 14:26 and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.
There is not another.
Joh 15:26 `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father–the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
John 14.16, is the only scripture that reads another comforter, why is that wj, why does John 14.26, 15.26, 16.7 only read comforter?
Isa 23:4 Also–when I walk in a valley of death-shade, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy rod and Thy staff–they comfort me.
!!!Danger Danger!!!
“John 14.16, is the only scripture that reads another comforter, why is that wj, why does John 14.26, 15.26, 16.7 only read comforter? “
“John 14.16, is the only scripture that reads another comforter, why is that wj, why does John 14.26, 15.26, 16.7 only read comforter? “
“John 14.16, is the only scripture that reads another comforter, why is that wj, why does John 14.26, 15.26, 16.7 only read comforter? “
!!!Danger Danger!!!
So is this one of those scriptures we use the white out on, or scratch out, or accuse the translators and the text as being wrong like maybe John 1:1.
If you look at the context of the scriptures it is clear that the “Comforter”, is “Another”.
Or would you say the Father is subservient to Jesus…
Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Can you honestly say the Father is sent by Jesus and the Father does not speak of himself and the Father speaks only what he hears and the Father takes from Jesus and gives to us?
You say…
Quote Why would not the spirit testify of Christ? Christ testified of Yahweh, as being the true and living God. They are one. There is a new teaching of the trinity, the word they use is 'seperatness', since they have to defend this, just as the councils did, they must create to secure their doctrine.
We don't have to be creative w/ words, to understand the meaning of scriptures.
Yes they are One. But the Spirit does not speak of himself. The Father and the Son do!“…for he shall not speak of himself” Jn 16:13
The problem you have is not the Spirit testifying of Christ, but the Spirit only speaking what he hears and taking from Jesus what the Father has given him.
There is no defending Gods word, it defends itself. I have presented to you line upon line scriptures that suport the Trinitarian view. In fact probably around 90% of what I have presented is scripture. Now we can build our doctrine based on scripture or we can build it based on what we can understand.
And as far as being creative, I think that one has to be very creative to get around these scriptures and the clear teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
You say…
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I truly feel that John 4, was the proper scripture to bring to you. Christ speaks of 'you know not what your worship, we worship what we know'. Yahweh is spirit, and those worshipping him, need to worship in truth and spirit.Don’t you find it interesting that the word “Worship, proskuneo” is used by Jesus for worshipping the Father, when this same word “proskuneo” was being practiced on him many times without rebuke?
You say…
Quote The spirit teaches, not of another Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there are 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “Another” comforter who the Father will give)Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit!
Blessings
I don't understand what's so hard to accept. Don't you think that the Father is able to send His Spirit to dwell in His children?
Ok, the comforter IS the Holy Spirit.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
**The Holy spirit is sent by the Father in Jesus' name.**
This is the Spirit that Jesus was full of without measure, correct?The comforter, Holy Spirit (they are one in the same John 14:26) would not come unless Jesus would be resurrected.
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter [Holy Spirit] will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit (comforter) that the comes from the Father that he was full of without measure.
Of course this is the Spirit in 1Cor 12.
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.The comforter is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God(1Cor.12:3). Is the Spirit of God a separate person? Is your spirit a separate person?
If you were are able to send your spirit to other people to guide and teach them is it you or another person that is sent?
Of course we are unable to do that but the Father can and does send His Spirit (comforter, Holy Spirit) which is NOT another person. If God's Spirit were another person then the Spirit would have a name, just as Jesus and even we have a name.
The Holy Spirit is sent by Jesus because Jesus paid our debt. If it were not for Jesus we would not be able to receive GOD'S SPIRIT.
To recap:
The comforter, Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit which is God's Spirit. John 14:26; 15:26; 16:12. 1 Cor 12:3, 11. What is God?
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.This says it all for me WJ. The Holy Spirit comes from the Father who is Spirit. The Holy Spirit OF God is sent by the Father in Jesus' name, Again, because He is our mediator between us and the Father. No one will receive the Father's Spirit unless they first accept Jesus.
So we have the Holy Spirit (who is comforter etc) that comes from the Father, John 14:26.
The Father's Spirit's name is Jehovah for the Spirit of God IS God. Just like your spirit is you. Your Spirit has not a different name neither does God's Spirit have a different name because the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit.
Your spirit is you AND Jehovah's Spirit is Jehovah!
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
If you saw Jesus then you have seen the Father because Jesus was full of God's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the comforter, guide, Spirit of truth etc.
There is nothing difficult until you try to add what isn't there, a third person.
Quote Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit! The original Trinity stated that God was three Equal persons in one. That didn't work for some so instead of accepting what the Holy Spirit is trying to tell them, instead of letting go of their tradition they changed the definition to: Three persons the Father being the greatest then Jesus then the Holy Spirit.
Now we have another definition: Three person+one Spirit.
God is not the author of confusion.
IHN&L,
Ken
Kenrch
You say…
Quote
Now we have another definition: Three person+one Spirit.God is not the author of confusion.
Kenrch
A little misrepresentation again.
Quote Three person+one Spirit.
These are not my words but yours.One God, Three persons, One Spirit.
We are not gonna agree I see. I will leave it there.
May the Lord and Saviour Jesus continue to show his own the wonderful truths found in the scriptures concerning himself.
Hi W,
You have never answered how one of the so called “persons” is also the one unifying Spirit.
Or offered that the PERSON you call “the Spirit” also has a spirit too.
You really need to clarify this confusion
as your credibility is suffering.WJ these are your words in your post.
Posted: June 07 2007,08:39
——————————————————————————–
KenrchThanks you very much for your patience!
You say…
Quote
What is your definition of the trinity?Now you say that the Spirit is not in another Spirit. Then how are the TRIO one?
I am really taken back as to why you ask this, especially since you have been apposing the Trinitarian view for so long and even more so have clearly heard my position on it.
I have repeatedly shown that scriptures bear out three persons yet One God.
There is no other way to view or reconcile “ALL” scriptures. You have to accept some and disregard others if you do not hold a Trinitarian view. Most of the time people who don’t accept the Trinitarian view resort to accusing the text or mistranslation. I think this is unacceptable, for if you don’t believe the scriptures that many gave their lives and blood to bring us in the purist form that we have, then you leave the scriptures open for “Private Interpretation”! What do we have then? We have nothing that is sure.
2 Peter 1:9
We have also a *more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed* , as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:Again, in summary!
1. There is One God.
2. There is One Spirit
3. There is Three “Persons”This is written and many scriptures bear this out.
You say…
Quote
Was Jesus filled with the Holy Spirit or the comforter, spirit of truth.I'm after the truth and I'm not here to argue.
Ok, the comforter IS the Holy Spirit.
I hope you mean this. Now you say “the Comforter is the Holy Spirit”.
You are correct. These are titles of a “Person”.
However, later in your post you say…Quote
The comforter is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God(1Cor.12:3). Is the Spirit of God a separate person? Is your spirit a separate person?
If you are able to send your spirit to other people to guide and teach them is it you or another person that is sent?
Of course we are unable to do that but the Father can and does send His Spirit (comforter, Holy Spirit) which is NOT another person. If God's Spirit were another person then the Spirit would have a name, just as Jesus and even we have a name.
The Holy Spirit is sent by Jesus because Jesus paid our debt. If it were not for Jesus we would not be able to receive GOD'S SPIRIT.
Of course my Spirit is not another person, but I am not God and I can’t “Send my Spirit”.
If Jesus meant the “Comforter, Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth” was the Father, then why didn’t he just say my Father will send himself, or my Father will come to you and I will send him and he will not speak of himself but whatever my Father hears that will he speak and he will glorify me and my Father will teach you all things for he will take from me all the things he has given me and give it to you. So tarry until you be endued with power from on high, because I will send my Father to you and I will also baptize you in my Father for my Father is the Spirit!
I don’t mean to be redundant here but the scriptures and the “Spirit of Truth” is all we have.
Just bear with me.
Here it is again…
The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.
Here are a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!
Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(There is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons are mentioned!)Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there are 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “Another” comforter who the Father will give)Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and, 2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifies of Jesus)Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)Is this “Comforter”, “The Holy Spirit”, “The Spirit of Truth”, the Fathers personal Spirit spoken of in these scriptures, and how do you draw that conclusion?
Yet we know there is “ONE Spirit”.
That “ONE Spirit” is not only called the above, but also the following.
*The Spirit of God*
Matt 3:16, Matt 12:28, Rom 8:9,14, 15:19, 1 Cor 2:11, 14, 3:16, 7:40, 12:13, Eph 4:30, Jn 4:2
*The Spirit of Jesus*
Gal 4:6, Acts 16:7, Rom 8 9,10, 2 Cor 3:16-18, Phil 1:19, 1 Peter 1:11
*The Holy Spirit or Comforter or Holy Ghost*
Lk 3:16, 11:13, 1 Thess 4:8, Jn 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:13-15, Matt 28:19, Mark 1:8, 3:29, Lk 1:15, Jn 7:39, Jn 20:22, Acts 1:5, 1:8, 2:33, 10:38, 13:2
These terms are used synonymously and are referring to the “ONE God”.
The Apostles speak of them interchangeably! And clearly they are not always referring to the Father or to the Son, for they may be saying “Spirit of Christ” “Spirit of Jesus” “Spirit of God” “The Spirit” “Holy Spirit” Spirit of the Son” “His Spirit” “Holy Ghost” “One Spirit” “Spirit” “Comforter” “Spirit of Truth” “Finger of God” “Living Water” “Life giving Spirit”
Yet the Word clearly says there is only “One Spirit”. Since we know there is only “One God”, then we have to conclude that the “One Spirit” is the “One God”.
Now we have to reconcile three persons spoken of that dwells in us by that one Spirit.
Look…
*Father*
II Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(This is the Father living in us and walking in us)*Son*.
II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus
Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?
(No question Paul says “Yeshua Christos” is in us)*Holy Spirit*.
Jn 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(Jesus has always spoken of the Father, but when he gets here he speaks of “Another”.)Here you see three persons spoken of that lives in us.
I say three persons because we know there is not three Spirits but One.
1 Cor 12:11
But all these worketh that one and the *selfsame Spirit*, dividing to every man severally as he will.You say…Quote
If God's Spirit were another person then the Spirit would have a name, just as Jesus and even we have a name.
Matt 28:19 Jesus speaks of One Name for the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost. Now we know there is only “One Name” whereby men may be saved, Jesus. This is why they baptized in Jesus Name, within that name contained all that the Father and the Spirit are.
In fact in the preceding verse Jesus says..
Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, *All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth*.Tell me, what is the Fathers name?
So the 'spirit without a name” argument is a straw. The Spirit like the Father and the Son has many appellations!
But there is “One Name” and at that “One Name” every knee shall bow.
You say…
Quote
Why would not the spirit testify of Christ? Christ testified of Yahweh, as being the true and living God. They are one.There is a new teaching of the trinity, the word they use is 'seperatness', since they have to defend this, just as the councils did, they must create to secure their doctrine.
We don't have to be creative w/ words, to understand the meaning of scriptures.
The problem you have is not the Spirit testifying of Christ, but the Spirit only speaking what he hears and taking from Jesus what the Father has given him.
There is no defending Gods word, it defends itself. I have presented to you line upon line scriptures that suport the Trinitarian view. In fact probably around 90% of what I have presented is scripture. Now we can build our doctrine based on scripture or we can build it based on what we can understand.
And as far as being creative, I think that one has to be very creative to get around these scriptures and the clear teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
You say…Quote
I truly feel that John 4, was the proper scripture to bring to you. Christ speaks of 'you know not what your worship, we worship what we know'. Yahweh is spirit, and those worshipping him, need to worship in truth and spirit.
Don’t you find it interesting that the word “Worship, proskuneo” is used by Jesus for worshipping the Father, when this same word “proskuneo” was being practiced on him many times without rebuke?
You say…
Quote
The spirit teaches, not of anotherJn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there are 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “Another” comforter who the Father will give)Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit!
Quote Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit! Three persons AND one Spirit.
Aren't these your words?
They told me that 3+1 =4
Are you trying to say that the Trio are IN one Spirit who happens to be one of the Trio?
If that's the case AGAIN what Spirit is the Holy Spirit in?AGAIN: GOD IS NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION
IHN&L,
Ken
Kenrch
You say…
Quote
Three persons AND one Spirit.Aren't these your words?
They told me that 3+1 =4
Are you trying to say that the Trio are IN one Spirit who happens to be one of the Trio?
If that's the case AGAIN what Spirit is the Holy Spirit in?AGAIN: GOD IS NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION
Now since we know the Father, Son and Comforter is One Spirit.
Then by your math you take away the Spirit then The Father Son and Comforter are “Nothing”.
So lets try it your way.
Father and Son and One Spirit!
2+1=3
So you still have a trinity!
Yes you are right God is not the author of confusion!
*A challenge for the Unitarians, Henotheist, and Arians*
Please tell me based on the following scriptures how do you reconcile them from any other view but a Trinitarians?
How do you explain the following scriptures?
1 Cor 2:13
*For by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made *to drink into one Spirit*.Eph 4:4
There is one body, and *one Spirit*, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;II Cor 3:17
Now the *Lord is that Spirit*: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.We see many scriptures that show that Jesus – The Spirit of God – The Spirit of Christ – God – The Father – Spirit of him – The Spirit – His Spirit – Comforter – Holy Spirit that are terms being used in speaking of *God dwelling in our Body* the Temple of God, the Temple of the Holy Spirit or the Temple of Christ.
That “ONE Spirit” is not only called the above, but also the following.
*The Spirit of God*
Matt 3:16, Matt 12:28, Rom 8:9,14, 15:19, 1 Cor 2:11, 14, 3:16, 7:40, 12:13, Eph 4:30, Jn 4:2
*The Spirit of Jesus*
Gal 4:6, Acts 16:7, Rom 8 9,10, 2 Cor 3:16-18, Phil 1:19, 1 Peter 1:11
*The Holy Spirit or Comforter or Holy Ghost*
Lk 3:16, 11:13, 1 Thess 4:8, Jn 14:16,26, 15:26, 16:13-15, Matt 28:19, Mark 1:8, 3:29, Lk 1:15, Jn 7:39, Jn 20:22, Acts 1:5, 1:8, 2:33, 10:38, 13:2
These terms are used synonymously and are referring to the “ONE God”, and yet we know they are different persons.
The Apostles speak of them interchangeably! And clearly they are not always referring to the Father or to the Son, for they may be saying “Spirit of Christ” “Spirit of Jesus” “Spirit of God” “The Spirit” “Holy Spirit” Spirit of the Son” “His Spirit” “Holy Ghost” “One Spirit” “Spirit” “Comforter” “Spirit of Truth” “Finger of God” “Living Water” “Life giving Spirit”
Yet the Word clearly says there is only “One Spirit”. Since we know there is only “One God”, then we have to conclude that the “One Spirit” is the “One God”.
The following scriptures bear this oot…
Rom 8:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the *Spirit of God* dwell in you. Now if any man have not the *Spirit of Christ*, he is none of his.
10 And if *Christ be in you*, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the *Spirit of him* that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by *his Spirit* that dwelleth in you.Now we see most of the terms I mentioned earlier in Rom 8:9,10,11. A close look at these scriptures shows Paul uses the terms interchangeably to describe the “One Spirit”.
They are all living within us!
Look and see!
*Father*
II Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as *God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them*; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.*Son*.
II Cor 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that *Jesus Christ is in you*, except ye be reprobates?*Holy Spirit*.
I Cor 6:
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the *Holy Ghost which is in you*, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.Jn 14:
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you *another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.Jn 16:
14 *He shall glorify me*: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*.These words are interchageable and mean one thing, that there is three persons that dwell in us!
If you think the Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then how do you explain this scripture…
Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, *God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father*.Does the Father cry Father?
Yet we know God dwells in his people!
Look and see…
The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit divinely and unequelly and wonderfully joined together as ONE!
God dwells in us!
God = Father, Son And Holy Ghost!
This is scriptural!
Matt 28:
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the *name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*.
Col 2:
8 *Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.*
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:The Henotheist and the Unitarians and the Arians cannot swallow this truth.
They would rather throw the scriptures out than give up their man made doctrines.
Isa 11:2 Rested on him hath the Spirit of Jehovah, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and might, The spirit of knowledge and fear of Jehovah.
1Co 12:8 for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
Exo 31:3 and I fill him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all work,
1Sa 19:9 And a spirit of sadness from Jehovah is unto Saul, and he is sitting in his house, and his javelin in his hand, and David is playing with the hand,
2Sa 23:2 The Spirit of Jehovah hath spoken by me, And His word is on my tongue.
Job 4:9 From the breath of God they perish, And from the spirit of His anger consumed.
Ecc 7:9 Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry, For anger in the bosom of fools resteth.
Isa 4:4 If the Lord hath washed away The filth of daughters of Zion, And the blood of Jerusalem purgeth from her midst, By the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Isa 29:10 For poured out on you hath Jehovah a spirit of deep sleep, And He closeth your eyes–the prophets, And your heads–the seers–He covered.
So wj, what of all the scriptures above?
You seperate then combine, the seperate again. Blah. At least you did take one thing from my post. Danger, you use it quite frequently now, must have been painful to hear such words, due to the way you spat them back at me.
You know wj, there will be a day Praise YAH, that we will not have the scriptures to run to, to search. Only what the spirit brings forth, blessed be the day.
Quote Ok, I agree that the Spirit spoke to the men of old. This is good.
Quote But you show 2 scriptures that dosnt even mention the Spirit and I am assuming you are trying to say that Gods Spirit is the Father that exclusively spoke to them or did the work. No wj, I just like the words grace and favor, they appeal to me.
Quote They are all living within us! Sounds too much like legion………..wj
I am of one spirit, not many.Quote God = Father, Son And Holy Ghost! wj, are you using reference as accordingly:
Man=Nick,T8, Ken
Woman=olive, not3in1, charityYou have three titles to one God, without one being God. Seperate then combine.
wj, if you even for a moment think you have the purest form of scriptures………..
Quote I must not be doing a good job here AND HIS PEOPLE STOOD TOGETHER SAYING AMEN !!!!!!
Quote Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit! You cannot attach a person (flesh) title to spirit, for flesh and blood do not enter into the kingdom, need I say it slower
F L E S H A N D B L O O D, D O N O T E N T E R T H E K I N G D O M.
Which gives the groaning and wailing of DANGER DANGER.
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