The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
You say
“Rom. 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit(as Sons of God our spirit should be the spirit of Christ), that we are the children of God: “

Your addition to scripture is unwarranted and unwise IMHO.
We have our own natural human spirit and the sons of God also are anointed with the Spirit of Christ

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,09:34)

Hi 94, You say “Rom. 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit(as Sons of God our spirit should be the spirit of Christ), that we are the children of God: “ Your addition to scripture is unwarranted and unwise IMHO. We have our own natural human spirit and the sons of God also are anointed with the Spirit of Christ

Hi Nick:

Ga 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

And so, you have your opinion and I have mine.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Indeed, like Paul, you should have the eternal Christ Spirit life within you and by faith know that it will cause you to be raised. You have died in baptism and being seated with Christ in the heavenlies should take little importance by the fact that your tent still survives.

[942767]

Hi Nick:

2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. HE THAT ABIDETH IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, he hath both the Father and the Son.

God is still working on me and so, I may not be where I need to be, but I am striving to obey the Word of God.

Ga 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul is saying that he is not obeying his own thoughts but is striving to obey the Word of God, and this also is what I strive to do.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
I do not think our striving helps us serve God for it is not by might nor by power but by the Spirit, and the striving of men more often frustrates the opportunities for God to do the few and simple works that He wants to do through us.

Ps 46
“10Be still, and know that I am God:”

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,11:15)

Hi 94, I do not think our striving helps us serve God for it is not by might nor by power but by the Spirit, and the striving of men more often frustrates the opportunities for God to do the few and simple works that He wants to do through us. Ps 46 “10Be still, and know that I am God:”

Hi Nick:

This is what Jesus says:

7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.  
7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  
7:23
And then will I profess unto them *, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.  
7:24
Therefore whosoever * * heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:  
7:25
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.  
7:26
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:  
7:27
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.  

I believe that I will do as he says not because I have to but because I love him.  How about you?

[NickHassan]

Absolutely 94,
But God's Spirit leads the sons of God to serve and to please their God. They cannot add.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,12:29)

Absolutely 94, But God's Spirit leads the sons of God to serve and to please their God. They cannot add.

Hi:

God is my Father, and I am always aware of my accuser.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,13:15)

Hi 94, The sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.

Hi Nick:

And so, what does being led by the Spirit of God mean to you?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
If you are born of the Spirit you must wait for that wind to blow.

Philip could have set off with his own idea of evangelising but far more was accomplished in God's will by waiting for the wind which directed him to stand alongside the road waiting for the eunuch to pass.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,13:39)

Hi 94, If you are born of the Spirit you must wait for that wind to blow. Philip could have set off with his own idea of evangelising but far more was accomplished in God's will by waiting for the wind which directed him to stand alongside the road waiting for the eunuch to pass.

Hi Nick:

And so, being led by the Spirit means that I have to wait for the wind to blow? I'll have to check the forcast so that I can make sure that I evangelize on the right day.

[NickHassan]

amen

[Not3in1]

WJ – found it!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Kenrch

Thanks for your response! However you didn’t answer my questions.

I have to admit that I am a little confused about what you believe. And based on your response I think you are little confused about what I believe.

For I find it leaves me with a lot more questions about your belief!

So lets see if we can clarify our beliefs and narrow it down!

You say…

Quote

Sure I have the Spirit of the Son I wouldn't be a son of God if I didn't.  The Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit they are one.

You say you have the Spirit of the Son but the Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit!

Can you help me understand how that is not 2 Spirits? 1. “The Spirit of the Son” and, 2. “The Holy Spirit”, which I think you are saying is the Fathers personal Spirit? Is that correct?

Is there a scripture that says there is 2 Spirits?

Was this Spirit of Jesus that is in the Holy Spirit, (as you say) created when Jesus was born?

And if it was, is it the Spirit of a man? And if it is the spirit of a man, then how can that Spirit fill millions of believers and be with us till the end of the world?

You see because I believe what Jesus said literraly…

Matt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, *I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen*.

Also Jesus said that both he and the Father would come and make there dwelling with us…

Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, *and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him*.

We have the Holy Spirit and are “in the Holy Spirit” also, but does our Spirit fill all things? Are we everywhere?

1 Cor 2:13
*For by one Spirit* are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made *to drink into one Spirit*.
Eph 2:18
For through him we both have access by *one Spirit* unto the Father.

You say…

Quote

Wait! Does your doctrine say three IN one or three ARE one.

There is “One God “in” Three persons” or Three persons “are” One God.

Is there a difference?

You say…

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The Son is in the Father.  We are in the Son who is in the Father who is the Holy Spirit.

Again if the Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit, how many spirits is that?

And if Jesus is a created spirit then how can millions of believers be in him and he be in them?

You say…

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Yes I believe that Jesus had the Spirit without measure. Jesus was full of the GOD.  The Holy Spirit IS God.

Amen! Now we are getting somewhere! The Holy Spirit is God!

You say…

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The Father and Son have the same Spirit.  There is but ONE Spirit.  Scripture says that God is that Spirit.

Now I am confused. You say “The Father and the Son have the same Spirit”, but earlier you said…

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Sure I have the Spirit of the Son I wouldn't be a son of God if I didn't.  The Spirit of the Son is in the Holy Spirit they are one.

Again, this implys 2 spirits and not one.

You say…

Quote

Are their three in one OR two in one.  Jesus said He and the Father are one.  Where is number three?

The scriptures and Jesus speaks clearly of a “third person”.

Here is a few scriptures that clearly show there is “another” Person!

Lk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: *he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire*:
(is this Holy Ghost the Father? If so, the Holy Spirit is subservient  to Jesus since Jesus is doing the baptizing!)

Lk 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall *your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him*?
(there is 2 persons mentioned here, 1. the Father who gives 2. the Holy Spirit or comforter!)

1 Thess 4:8
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
( Again 2 persons is mentioned!)

Jn 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and *he shall give you another Comforter*, that he may abide with you for ever;
(Again, there is 2 persons here, 1. The Father and 2. “another” comforter who the Father will give)

Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom *the Father will send in my name*, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(Again, 2 persons shown here, 1. The Father and,  2. The Holy ghost whom the Father will send)

Jn 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father*, he shall testify of me:(here is the third person proceeding from the Father and testifys of Jesus)

Jn 16:15
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.
(This scripture is obvious that the Spirit of truth is not the Father for the Spirit here is subservient to Jesus!)

Jn 16:14
He shall glorify me: for *he shall receive of mine* and shall shew it unto you.
(Again not the Father or the Son for he takes from Jesus and gives to us)

Jn 16:15
*All things that the Father hath are mine*: therefore said I, that *he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you*
(Again this person is not Jesus nor the Father for it would make no since for the Father here would be subservient to Jesus.)

You say…

Quote

Scripture does not support the Trinity doctrine anymore than it supports the “first” day sabbath of the Harlot.

There you go with the harlot stuff again. Is this the pat an
swer when you cant answer or don’t understand? The Trinity was taught by early church Fathers long before the creeds. Listen to the words of Ignatius who was a desciple of John the beloved in an epistle to the Trallians around 100 AD…

“They introduce God as a Being unknown; they suppose Christ to be unbegotten; *and as to the Spirit, they do not admit that He exists*. Some of them say that *the Son is a mere man*, and that *the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are but the same person*, and that *the creation is the work of God, not by Christ*, but by some other strange power.

So the whole Trinity and harlot argument is a straw. Give it up.

You say…

Quote

Please answer my question.  What Spirit is the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son in? It is three in one, correct? You believe the Holy Spirit is a third separate person.  Three in one correct?  Then you have to include the Holy Spirit as being IN the same Spirit that Jesus and the Father are in.

I only need to conclude what the scriptures say…

There is three persons, One God!

One Spirit, Three persons, One God!

You say…

Quote

Three in one is your doctrine NOT Father and Son in one Spirit that would be two in the ONE Spirit that scripture speaks about 1Cor. ch.12.  But your doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit is a third separate person and part of the Trio. Three in one then would include that person with NO Name and that third person would have to be IN that Spirit BUT Scripture says there is ONE Spirit.

I Cor ch. 12 dosnt even mention the Father.

Not to mention the scriptures I have aready shown that the Holy Spirit is a third person.

Also you need the white out for this “unnamed spirit” you call him, which Jesus and the Apostles says he plainly exist.

Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them *in the name of (singular) the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost*:

You say…

Quote

So I ask you again “What Spirit is the Holy Spirit in?” May God help us be one even as the Father and Son are!  Kenrch

One God, Three Persons, One Spirit.

Now the questions again?

When you recieved Christ into your heart, how many Spirits did you recieve?

Does the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit live in you?

If not please explain!

Blessings.  

[Not3in1]

If the spirit of God is a unique and separate person, and having “spirit” is prerequisite to having a unique and separate personality, then the person called “the Spirit of God” must have his own “spirit” peculiar to himself and distinct from the Father and Son? Wouldn't we then be forced to the absurd belief in “the spirit of the Spirit”? If “the Holy Spirit” has no spirit of His own, then He could not be said to have a separate “personality.”

If “God” is three co-equal persons, the third person can no more be “the spirit” of the first person, than the first person can be “the spirit” of the third person. To avoid this, “the spirit of God” cannot have a separate personality, but must be the power, influence, sufficiency, fullness, or some extension of the Father, the real and unitary person called the One true God.'

Right?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2007,18:13)

If the spirit of God is a unique and separate person, and having “spirit” is prerequisite to having a unique and separate personality, then the person called “the Spirit of God” must have his own “spirit” peculiar to himself and distinct from the Father and Son?  Wouldn't we then be forced to the absurd belief in “the spirit of the Spirit”?  If “the Holy Spirit” has no spirit of His own, then He could not be said to have a separate “personality.” If “God” is three co-equal persons, the third person can no more be “the spirit” of the first person, than the first person can be “the spirit” of the third person.  To avoid this, “the spirit of God” cannot have a separate personality, but must be the power, influence, sufficiency, fullness, or some extension of the Father, the real and unitary person called the One true God.' Right?

Not3

You make logical statements with no scripture sis.

Look at my post and you will see the scriptures that clearly show The Father and the Son and the Spirit as three distinct persons, and they all three live in us by one Spirit!

Now we have a choice to accept the scriptures or we can accept only the ones that make sence to us. Which one is it?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 04 2007,18:40)

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 04 2007,18:13) If the spirit of God is a unique and separate person, and having “spirit” is prerequisite to having a unique and separate personality, then the person called “the Spirit of God” must have his own “spirit” peculiar to himself and distinct from the Father and Son?  Wouldn't we then be forced to the absurd belief in “the spirit of the Spirit”?  If “the Holy Spirit” has no spirit of His own, then He could not be said to have a separate “personality.” If “God” is three co-equal persons, the third person can no more be “the spirit” of the first person, than the first person can be “the spirit” of the third person.  To avoid this, “the spirit of God” cannot have a separate personality, but must be the power, influence, sufficiency, fullness, or some extension of the Father, the real and unitary person called the One true God.' Right? Not3 You make logical statements with no scripture sis. Look at my post and you will see the scriptures that clearly show The Father and the Son and the Spirit as three distinct persons, and they all three live in us by one Spirit! Now we have a choice to accept the scriptures or we can accept only the ones that make sence to us. Which one is it?

And so welcome to the only view that reconciles all of the scriptures.

Trinitarian view.

One God, Three persons, One Spirit!

[Not3in1]

God is not the author of confusion. Why would he give us scriptures that *seem* not to make sense? Shouldn't we interpret those scriptures with the scriptures that are clear? Scriptures that show the holy Spirit is WHO God is and not a third person:

1 Cor. 2:10-12

If my statements are logical, then I will rest tonight knowing I am not out of my mind to think the things I do…… Because if the Trinity is truth, then I want the Trinity. But if the Trinity keeps attacking my ability to reason scripture out, and my ability to make use of language and it's definitions, then I'm not sure what to do with the teaching? My mind wants to throw it out.

Without faith it is impossible to please God – I know this. But without your intellect and heart for understanding….it would seem impossible to seek him out and truly know him?

[Not3in1]

WJ, you are correct in that the Trinity does seem to reconcile the problems with certain scriptures…….but I'm not looking for a cure for the problems…….I'm looking for the truth of it all.

[Author]

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