The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2007,00:58)

Hi Tim, What is a person?

Hi Nick,

These are definitions of the word person from the dictionary.
Which of these persons do you consider God to be?

I really wanted an answer to my first question though. If scriptures call God a person
I want to know these things.

1.A living human. Often used in combination: chairperson; spokesperson; salesperson.
2.An individual of specified character: a person of importance.
3.The composite of characteristics that make up an individual personality; the self.
4.The living body of a human: searched the prisoner's person.
5.Physique and general appearance.
6.Law. A human or organization with legal rights and duties.
7.Christianity. Any of the three separate individualities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as distinguished from the essence of the Godhead that unites them.

You can’t claim that number seven is your answer and then deny the trinity.
Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
Num 5.
“6 Speak unto the children of Israel, When a man or woman shall commit any sin that men commit, to do a trespass against the LORD, and that person[5315] be guilty;
Number 5315
Transliteration:
nephesh {neh'-fesh}
Word Origin:
from 5314
TWOT:
1395a
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47

Total: 753
Definition:
soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
living being
living being (with life in the blood)
the man himself, self, person or individual
seat of the appetites
seat of emotions and passions
activity of mind
dubious
activity of the will
dubious
activity of the character
dubious

Heb 1
“1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person[5287], and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”
Number 5287
Transliteration:
hupostasis {hoop-os'-tas-is}
Word Origin:
from a compound of 5259 and 2476
TDNT:
8:572,1237
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
confidence 2, confident 1, person 1, substance 1

Total: 5
Definition:
a setting or placing under
thing put under, substructure, foundation
that which has foundation, is firm
that which has actual existence
a substance, real being
the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing
the steadfastness of mind, firmness, courage, resolution
confidence, firm trust, assurance

GOD IS A PERSON-The Father.

[TimothyVI]

Hi Nick,
Your first verse is saying that the person that commits the sin is guilty.
It does not call God a person. It calls the sinner a person.

Num 5:6 Speak unto the children of Israel, When a man or woman shall commit any sin that men commit, to do a trespass against the LORD, and that person be guilty;

Your second verse, Heb 1:3 does not call God a person in any bible except the KJV.

As usual the KJV has a trinity influenced translation wherin they wanted God to be one of the three persons of the trinity.
Almost all of the other translations use a different word than person.

NIV Heb.1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being

NASB Heb.1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature,

NLT Heb. 1:3 The Son reflects God's own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly

YLT Heb. 1:13 who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence

Even the Greek interlineary says that He is the emblem of the understanding of Him

I could go on and on, but you see that none of the other translations of Heb 1:3 call God a person, and your first verse wasn’t even talking about God when it said person.

I guess I still consider God a spirit, which He is definitely called, and not a person, which He is never called.

Thank you for taking the time to try to find one for me though. I can respect your opinion that God is a person, but I will have to agree to disagree.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
I gave you examples of “person” in both Testaments.
Looking at Heb 1
Heb 1
“1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person[5287], and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high”

God is the Father.
God is not a trinity.
God is a person, not three persons
God is the Majesty on High.
Jesus is the Son of God.
He is not God.
God speaks through him.
He is at the right hand of God.
He is another person from God.

[TimothyVI]

Hi Nick,

No you didn't give me examples in both testaments.
Did you read your text in Num 5:6 again? It wasn't even talking about GOd
when it said person.

And I showed you that Heb 1 was only translated person in the one bible.
And translated more correctly in every other bible version printed.

I don't want to argue with you Nick. I respect what you contribute here too much
for that. I just thought that you had some information
that would be helpful to me. That you actually had scripture that called
God a person.

Other than that,

God is the Father.
God is not a trinity.
God is not three persons
God is the Majesty on High.
Jesus is the Son of God.
He is not God.
God speaks through him.
He is at the right hand of God.
He is another person from God.

Wow, we are pretty close.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
I gave you examples of the use of the word PERSON in both testaments.
Only the second related to the
ONE PERSON of GOD,
the FATHER.

[TimothyVI]

Thanks Nick,

I see.

You thought that I asked for examples of the use of the word person in scriptures.
That was not what I had asked. I know that the word person is used numerous times.
My original question was,
Does it say in any scripture that God is a person?

Blessings,

Tim

[Cult Buster]

The HOLY SPIRIT (a Person) is endowed with very “personal” characteristics like:
Intelligence and knowledge, feelings and teaching ability.

(John 14:26) “for He will teach you all things”.
1 Cor. 2:13,14 He teaches us spiritual things, helping us to discern spiritual things
(1 Cor. 12:11),He makes decisions –deciding who gets what spiritual gift
He has emotions and can be grieved (Eph. 4:30)
Romans 8:26 “The Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

(John 16:8) He convicts of sin, of righteousness and judgment
Rev. 22:17
He invites people to “come” (Matt. 12:31, Mark 3:29) He can be sinned and blasphemed against, which can lead to the unpardonable sin
“The Spirit Himself bears witness…. that we are children of God (Romans 8:16
He speaks (Acts 8:29)
teaches (Luke 12:12)
reveals (Luke 2:26)
testifies (Acts 20:23)
searches (1 Cor. 2:10,11)
He sets people apart for service and sends them on their way (Acts 13:2,4)
He commands and guides (Acts 8:29)
He declares things to come (John 16:13)

In John chapters 14-16 Christ referred to the Holy Spirit 24 times with personal PRONOUNS. HE,  HIM. He addresses the Holy Spirit as a person, and treats Him as a person.

In John 14:16 He calls Him the Comforter (Parakletos), which is a title which could only be held by a person.

[Cult Buster]

The Holy Spirit is God

Acts 5:3   But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?  
 5:4   Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.  

Mathew  12:31   Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.  (Blasphemy can only be committed against God)

1 Corinthians 3:17   Now the Lord (God) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.  

9:14   How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit (only God hath immortality) offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?  

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[Cult Buster]

God the Holy Ghost dwells in you.    Comparisons.

Compare

1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

With

1Co 6:19  What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Compare

1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

With

2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Compare

1Co 12:11  But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

With

1Co 12:28  And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

It is quite ridiculous really to say that the Holy Spirit is just the spiritual presence of the Father or the Son or of both. At the baptism of Jesus the Three were manifested there. The Father spoke from heaven, Jesus was in the water being baptized, and the Holy Spirit came down upon Jesus like a dove. The Father and Jesus needed no spiritual presence of any third party.

Mat 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,
Is there one Spirit?
Is this the Holy Spirit?
Is this one Spirit also one of the ” persons in God”?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Many note the personlike qualities of The Holy Spirit of God and draw from those inferences that the Holy Spirit of God must be another person from the source of that Spirit. That is foolish greek logic at work and is no way to discern truth. The Spirit is of God and has no separate being or will from God , the Father, Himself unlike the Son of God. The Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reveals what is already written and reminds us of those words.

[Tim2]

Nick,

“The Spirit does not speak on His own initiative.” So you agree He is a person? I see you capitalized He. So you think He's God?

How many things that aren't persons are called parakletos?

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim2,
Deliberately.

The Spirit of God is a manifestation of God and as Acts 5 shows us that Spirit must be treated with the respect due to God Himself.

Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than that against the Son of God?

[Tim2]

Hi Nick,

“The Spirit of God is a manifestation of God.” So now you're a modalist? So no one knows the thoughts of God except a manifesation of God?

I don't know why blasphemy against the Spirit is more serious than against the Son of Man. But it sure makes me fear the Spirit. And I know there's only one whom I should fear.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim 2,
The Spirit of God is the finger of God.
Why would you dare separate God from his own finger, His own Spirit?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2007,22:19)

Hi Tim2, Deliberately. The Spirit of God is a manifestation of God and as Acts 5 shows us that Spirit must be treated with the respect due to God Himself. Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than that against the Son of God?

Hi Nick,
Blaspheming against the Holy spirit is explained in verses 22-23.
It is attributing to Satan the very works of God.
You can blaspheme against the Son, but do not give Satan credit for what God does. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of God. One and the same.

“But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation ” (Mark 3:29).

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Tim2 @ April 04 2007,20:51)

Nick, How many things that aren't persons are called parakletos? Tim

Tim2

Aside from the times in John where parakletos is used to describe the new comforter that Jesus woud ask the Father to send back to us after He is gone, it is only used one other time in the entire bible. That is in 1 John when john says that the parakletos is Jesus.
Jesus is the truth, and the parakletos will be sent back by the Father as our comforter, the spirit of truth.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Tim

[NickHassan]

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 04 2007,23:46)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2007,22:19) Hi Tim2, Deliberately. The Spirit of God is a manifestation of God and as Acts 5 shows us that Spirit must be treated with the respect due to God Himself. Why is blasphemy against the Spirit more serious than that against the Son of God? Hi Nick, Blaspheming against the Holy spirit is explained in verses 22-23. It is attributing to Satan the very works of God. You can blaspheme against the Son, but do not give Satan credit for what God does. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit of God. One and the same. “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation ” (Mark 3:29).

Hi Tim 4,
So the Spirit is the Spirit of God and there is no trinity.
Thanks.

[Tim2]

Quote (TimothyVI @ April 04 2007,23:59)

Quote (Tim2 @ April 04 2007,20:51) Nick, How many things that aren't persons are called parakletos? Tim Tim2 Aside from the times in John where parakletos is used to describe the new comforter that Jesus woud ask the Father to send back to us after He is gone, it is only used one other time in the entire bible. That is in 1 John when john says that the parakletos is Jesus. Jesus is the truth, and the parakletos will be sent back by the Father as our comforter, the spirit of truth. 1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: Tim

Tim,

I would say that supports that a parakletos is a person.

So if the Father is a person, Jesus is a person, and the Spirit is a person, and they are all the same God, I'd say that is one God in three persons.

Tim

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