The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 22 2007,12:06)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2007,06:04) Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 20 2007,23:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2007,21:45) What is your credentials that you should take Matt 28:19 out! Hi WorshippingJesus, My sincerest apologies to you. I did not realize that we needed to post our credentials to state our belief on this forum. What I stated about Matt 28:19 was only what I have read that other scholars, you know, the ones that have the credentials, believe to be true. I can not take it out. I am not a man of many theological letters, I am merely an engineer. If I remember correctly, Jesus was a carpenter, that hung around with some fishermen and tentmakers. Peace to you, Tim TimothyVI All I was saying is if you contradict what is written, then you should be able to back it up with credable evidence. If you cant do that then why contradict scriptures unless you are just wanting to be contentious. And if you dont agree with the tranlsators that is fine, but if you want someone do believe you then they will want to know if you are a Greek or Hebrew scholar and why you contradict them. And you alude to a claim about scholars believeing something to be true about Matt 28:18 but show no quotes, evidence or anything. BTW All this so called false humility running around here could make an honest man sick. Hi WorshippingJesus, You asked what my credentials were, I replied that I had none. And that so called false humility could make an honest man sick. Well, if that is considered false humility to you, and you consider yourself an honest man, I will do you the honor of never again replying to any of your questions. Tim

TimothyVI

There must be an missunderstanding here.

My reply was not directed toward you.

I dont see you with that problem.

I was respnding to your statement…

Quote

My sincerest apologies to you. I did not realize that we needed to post our credentials to state our belief on this forum.

Which seemed a little condescending and sarcastic.

If not then no problem.

All is good.

Blessings  

[Phoenix]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2007,06:07)

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 20 2007,01:00) Um… Like Nick says… Quote No suggestion there are several persons in God. Seems like something men made up to me Hugs P Its good to see NH and t8 has all their followers here! That warms my heart.

Oh puhleeezzze WJ

Get over yaself LOL

What Nick said was exactly true!! and because it proved you wrong you accuse me of being their follower? No. I just pointed out to you the truth of what was said. Stop being a SAD SACK, let the Ego go, and accept the fact that you were proved wrong.

God Bless You

Phoenix

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 23 2007,21:04)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2007,06:07) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 20 2007,01:00) Um… Like Nick says… Quote No suggestion there are several persons in God. Seems like something men made up to me Hugs P Its good to see NH and t8 has all their followers here! That warms my heart. Oh puhleeezzze WJ Get over yaself LOL What Nick said was exactly true!! and because it proved you wrong you accuse me of being their follower? No. I just pointed out to you the truth of what was said. Stop being a SAD SACK, let the Ego go, and accept the fact that you were proved wrong. God Bless You Phoenix

P

What?

He was talking about the Shema!

And I responded…

Quote

Phoenix Thats it! And its amazing how so many walk around talking about being faithful and serving this One God, while at the same time they bow down and serve a man calling him Lord and Master. Whats up with that?

There is only One God, “One Spirit”, Three persons.

My point is that NH and others like t8 claim they worship one God and yet bow down to a smaller God calling him Lord and master.

2 Cor 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Eph 4:5
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:

You do believe there is only One Lord, One God, and One Spirit dont you?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,

One God and Three persons?
Where is this written?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Neh 9
” 20Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst. “
God gives of His Spirit

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,07:22)

Hi, Neh 9 ” 20Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst. “ God gives of His Spirit

NH

Who gives “The Manna” and gives “The Spirit”?

[Phoenix]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2007,21:32)

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 23 2007,21:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2007,06:07) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 20 2007,01:00) Um… Like Nick says… Quote No suggestion there are several persons in God. Seems like something men made up to me Hugs P Its good to see NH and t8 has all their followers here! That warms my heart. Oh puhleeezzze WJ Get over yaself LOL What Nick said was exactly true!! and because it proved you wrong you accuse me of being their follower? No. I just pointed out to you the truth of what was said. Stop being a SAD SACK, let the Ego go, and accept the fact that you were proved wrong. God Bless You Phoenix P What? He was talking about the Shema! And I responded… Quote Phoenix Thats it! And its amazing how so many walk around talking about being faithful and serving this One God, while at the same time they bow down and serve a man calling him Lord and Master. Whats up with that? There is only One God, “One Spirit”, Three persons. My point is that NH and others like t8 claim they worship one God and yet bow down to a smaller God calling him Lord and master. 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD: You do believe there is only One Lord, One God, and One Spirit dont you?

I was going to reply this yesterday but I got cut off to go to church.

Ok. I dont know what a shema is and I didnt know Nick was talking about the shema. But I followed his post when he asked for the verse because he didnt remember it off the top of his head. But he was right though… he knew it didnt state several other persons.

Quote

P Its good to see NH and t8 has all their followers here! That warms my heart.

You addressed that comment to me. Why? It warms your heart yet you show a sad emoticon? why? To me that was a sarcastic comment and because it was addressed to me I felt I had to respond.

Quote

My point is that NH and others like t8 claim they worship one God and yet bow down to a smaller God calling him Lord and master.

Yes and I agree with them. This is the way I look at it. And please remember this is my opinion.

God, the Father created everything… through Jesus (whose name is Michael the Archangel. Since Jesus' name did not come about till he came down here on earth). Michael is God's chief. He commands Michael what to do and how to make it. And no doubt Michael had all these other angels helping him also. [David – if you are reading this.. if this is how the JW's percieve it as well then that will make sense to me]

Hehe start throwing your stones at me hehe.

Much the same as God sends messages through his Archangels which is then conveyed to his servants – Moses, Abraham etc.

So, basically, what Im trying to say is… Jesus is Gods Son sent to earth to rally us back to the Father. So he (Jesus) is relaying God's (the Father) message to us, to look to him (Jesus) because he knows the way.

God the Father actually accepts us worshipping Jesus because he said so on the Mount of Transfiguration. “This is my Son, whom I love, Listen to him”

Jesus explained in a parable (I think) about how we fed him when he was hungry and clothed him when he was naked and so on. His disciples didnt understand what he was talking about because they didnt remember doing this to him. But Jesus explained to them that they did it to those that did need it and when they did it to those that did need it they did for Jesus as well.

So, we worship Jesus… we are worshipping the Father as well. Which makes sense why Jesus says “the Father and I are One”

Did I make sense there?

Quote

You do believe there is only One Lord, One God, and One Spirit dont you?

Yes. But not the same way you see it though.

Hugs
Phoenix

[Phoenix]

Hi
Im not sure I said all the above correctly. But I am human and am not perfect and no doubt I could have explained better I am sure.

Hugs

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2007,18:19)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2007,07:22) Hi, Neh 9 ” 20Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst. “ God gives of His Spirit NH Who gives “The Manna” and gives “The Spirit”?

Hi W,
God [the Father] gives His Spirit.
That Spirit is not a son or another person.
It is the Spirit of God[the Father]

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Wherever the Spirit of God is
there is our Father God
as Spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
So you say there are three persons in one God.
and so
They are three spirits that make one Spirit?

So is the Holy Spirit the ONE SPIRIT
or
ONE OF the spirits?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
So to you the Spirit is both
“the third person in God”
and God Himself?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 24 2007,19:34)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 23 2007,21:32) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 23 2007,21:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2007,06:07) Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 20 2007,01:00) Um… Like Nick says… Quote No suggestion there are several persons in God. Seems like something men made up to me Hugs P Its good to see NH and t8 has all their followers here! That warms my heart. Oh puhleeezzze WJ Get over yaself LOL What Nick said was exactly true!! and because it proved you wrong you accuse me of being their follower? No. I just pointed out to you the truth of what was said. Stop being a SAD SACK, let the Ego go, and accept the fact that you were proved wrong. God Bless You Phoenix P What? He was talking about the Shema! And I responded… Quote Phoenix Thats it! And its amazing how so many walk around talking about being faithful and serving this One God, while at the same time they bow down and serve a man calling him Lord and Master. Whats up with that? There is only One God, “One Spirit”, Three persons. My point is that NH and others like t8 claim they worship one God and yet bow down to a smaller God calling him Lord and master. 2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD: You do believe there is only One Lord, One God, and One Spirit dont you? I was going to reply this yesterday but I got cut off to go to church. Ok. I dont know what a shema is and I didnt know Nick was talking about the shema. But I followed his post when he asked for the verse because he didnt remember it off the top of his head. But he was right though… he knew it didnt state several other persons. Quote P Its good to see NH and t8 has all their followers here! That warms my heart. You addressed that comment to me. Why? It warms your heart yet you show a sad emoticon? why? To me that was a sarcastic comment and because it was addressed to me I felt I had to respond. Quote My point is that NH and others like t8 claim they worship one God and yet bow down to a smaller God calling him Lord and master. Yes and I agree with them. This is the way I look at it. And please remember this is my opinion. God, the Father created everything… through Jesus (whose name is Michael the Archangel. Since Jesus' name did not come about till he came down here on earth). Michael is God's chief. He commands Michael what to do and how to make it. And no doubt Michael had all these other angels helping him also. [David – if you are reading this.. if this is how the JW's percieve it as well then that will make sense to me] Hehe start throwing your stones at me hehe. Much the same as God sends messages through his Archangels which is then conveyed to his servants – Moses, Abraham etc. So, basically, what Im trying to say is… Jesus is Gods Son sent to earth to rally us back to the Father. So he (Jesus) is relaying God's (the Father) message to us, to look to him (Jesus) because he knows the way. God the Father actually accepts us worshipping Jesus because he said so on the Mount of Transfiguration. “This is my Son, whom I love, Listen to him” Jesus explained in a parable (I think) about how we fed him when he was hungry and clothed him when he was naked and so on. His disciples didnt understand what he was talking about because they didnt remember doing this to him. But Jesus explained to them that they did it to those that did need it and when they did it to those that did need it they did for Jesus as well. So, we worship Jesus… we are worshipping the Father as well. Which makes sense why Jesus says “the Father and I are One” Did I make sense there? Quote You do believe there is only One Lord, One God, and One Spirit dont you? Yes. But not the same way you see it though. Hugs Phoenix

P

Sorry I missed yoiur post.

Cant agree with your “Michael” is Jesus thing.

Is there a scripture to support this belief?

I find it interesting that you would accept a teaching like that that has no ambiguous scripture to support it, yet you dont accept that Jesus is God when there are several ambiguous scriptures saying he is.

You say…

Quote

You addressed that comment to me. Why? It warms your heart yet you show a sad emoticon? why? To me that was a sarcastic comment and because it was addressed to me I felt I had to respond.

I dont mean to be sarcastic but if its true (Which your agreeing with NH seemed so), that you do follow their doctrine then yes thats why the sad face was for.

I am not happy to see men following false doctrine.

You say…

Quote

God the Father actually accepts us worshipping Jesus because he said so on the Mount of Transfiguration. “This is my Son, whom I love, Listen to him”

You see this is what I mean. You make my point very well.

I agree with you that Jesus should be worshipped because to me he is my Lord and God.

But to worship Jesus if he is not God is “Idolatry” in Jewish and biblical terms.

True Jews were strictly Monotheistic and believed in worshipping only One.

This is what the Shema is all about…

Shema Yisrael (or Sh'ma Yisroel or just Shema) (Hebrew: שמע ישראל; “Hear, [O] Israel”) are the first two words of a section of the Torah (Hebrew Bible) that is used as a centerpiece of all morning and evening Jewish prayer services and closely echoes the monotheistic message of Judaism. It is considered the most important prayer in Judaism, and its twice-daily recitation is a mitzvah (religious commandment).

Its main content is loving the one God with all one's heart, soul and might, and the rewards that come with this.

The term “Shema” is used by extension to the whole part of the daily prayers that commences with Shema Yisrael and comprises Deuteronomy 6:4-9, 11:13-21, and Numbers 15:37-41.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema

p

The Lord specifically says in…

Deut 6:
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Matt 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Jesus also said…

Matt 6:24
No man can serve “two” masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Yet you say you worship him but at the same time you dont believe he is God.

Can you see Pheonix that we are to only worship “ONE GOD”, God has not changed his mind,

Deut 4:35
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

1 Ki 8:60
That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

Isa 45:
5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is “no God” beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Comparing with Jn 1:1 and Heb 1:8 and Acts 20:28
and Jn 20:28 and 1 Jn 5:20 and many others we see that The Word/God, Yeshua, Jesus is God One with the Father and the Holy Spirit or elxe the scriptures would be broken.

You say you agree that Jesus is A Smaller god That would be Polytheixm.

And if you worship a smaller god who you believe to be an incarnate angel then it is “Idolatry”.

Sorry but this is what scriptures say.

Please search the scriptures to see if it is not so.

I said…

Quote

You do believe there is only One Lord, One God, and One Spirit dont you?

You said,,,

Quote

Yes. But not the same way you see it though.

Please explain how “ONE SPIRIT” can mean anything else.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Are you so enveloped in confusion that you do not understand yet that to serve Christ is to also serve his God?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2007,00:04)

Hi, Wherever the Spirit of God is there is our Father God as Spirit.

NH

So then you believe the Father God is not a person.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
I believe our God is the Father.
I believe God is one person.
God is one.

Jn 8
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Where did you get the notion of three persons in our God if not scripture?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2007,21:37)

Hi W, I believe our God is the Father. I believe God is one person. God is one. Jn 8 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Where did you get the notion of three persons in our God if not scripture?

Hi Nick,
Scriptures say that God is a spirit.
He is creating mankind in his spiritual image.

Does it say in any scripture that he is a person?

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim,
What is a person?

[kenrch]

We in the Spirit:
Apostles, prophets, teachers, pastors, evangelist all in one Spirit INCLUDING Jesus who is the Head. The Holy Spirit has everyone in the Spirit, the apostles etc. When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive the same Spirit that was in the apostles and prophets and Jesus. When John the Baptist received the Holy Spirit he did the work of Elijah. Through the Holy Spirit John was Elijah but still John.
Through the Holy Spirit Jesus was GOD but still Jesus. Jesus received the fullness of the Father's Spirit. John came in the spirit of Elijah. Jesus came in the Spirit of Jehovah!
Luk 1:17 And he shall go before his face in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to walk in the wisdom of the just; to make ready for the Lord a people prepared for him.
The Holy Spirit engulfs everyone we are all one in Christ (Gal. 3:28; 1Cor. ch. 12).Jesus being the first born is the head of all of us. He is in the Holy Spirit we are in the Holy Spirit. When we receive the Holy Spirit we SHOULD be one in Spirit. However Satan and our flesh prevents this from happening. We all believe in the head of the body but apparently we (all of us) don't do as the head of the body says through the Spirit, otherwise we would be one.
When the apostles died their spirit returned to God. The apostles were filled with the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit had the Apostles they were one. The Apostles and Elias are in the Holy Spirit. When John received the Holy Spirit he received Elijah through the Holy Spirit. That's why Jesus said John was Elijah but John didn't know it all he knew was that he had the Holy Spirit but through the Holy Spirit he did the work the personality of Elijah.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14 And if ye are willing to receive it, this is Elijah, that is to come.
Physically we have traits of our parents, their parents,our parents grand grand grandparents all the way back to our ancestors.
When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive traits of those in the Spirit including Jesus.
When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive Jesus the head of the Body. If we didn't we would walk around without a head LOL! Actually we would be able to walk at all, now would we?
When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive the very Spirit of God and all that is in Him.
One day God will be ALL in ALL!
There is one Spirit but many members of the Spirit which make the body, Jesus being the head. Make no mistake the HEAD is still part of the body! So it is only natural when we become part of the body we receive the HEAD.

IHN,
Ken

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2007,00:58)

Hi Tim, What is a person?

Hi Nick,

I wish that you would just answer simple questions. That wasn't a trick question, I really wanted to know if God is called a person any where in the bible.

Tim

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