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Quote There is no discussion with you!
I have repeated these questions because I haven't gotten answers.It is a fallacy on your part to try to connect the Watchtower to these questions.
Question: If these questions were from the Watchtower and you can't answer them, what does that mean?Quote You are not open for dialogue
No, I'm quite open to dialogue. I'm right now answering your questions, which is diverting us from my questions, which remain unanswered.Quote You are not open for dialogue, you completely evade scriptures that are obvious and go off on a tangent about something else!
You act like I've done this recently. Which scripture are you speaking of? I personally consider all my questions to be obvious. They are IN FACT so obvious, no one dares touch them.Quote Why dont you answer my questions that I posted earlier about One Spirit?
What? When yu mentioned that there is one spirit. God?Of course God is a spirit. The Bible says this. It also says there are many other spirits, spirit beings. “Spirit” in plural occurs about 40 times in the Greek scriptures. I'm uncertain as to what your point was, or if I even am sure what you are specifically talking about.
Well, you may have missed the point, so let me spell it out for you. You are happy to judge the trinitarian ideas as scripturally invalid because they can't point to a verse that explicitly bears them out…..and yet when you look at some of your own WT doctrines they would also be judged as invalid by this same standard.
Therefore it's a double standard.
Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,06:52) Quote Plain as the nose on your face! I”m sorry, do you know which scripture I'm talking about or not?
DavidIf you worship God you are worshipping the Spirit because God is the Spirit!
Quote Then please show me what these scriptures mean!
They mean what you think they mean, that God's spirit is inside people, NOT GOD THE SPIRIT, but God's holy spirit.God's spirit, like the doctors finger can be inside someone and we can speak of God (like the doctor) as being in someone, but we realize that it is his finger or God's finger, his holy spirit that is actually in the person.
God the spirit, who the universe cannot contain is not literally inside you. But God's spirit is in people.
Quote Do you limit God who fills all things right down to the atoms?
God is that tree over there. God is that eagle. I don't really hold to that philosophy. God created everything. He put spirit into living creatures. But God himself isn't inside the eagle.Quote Well, you may have missed the point, so let me spell it out for you. You are happy to judge the trinitarian ideas as scripturally invalid because they can't point to a verse that explicitly bears them out…..and yet when you look at some of your own WT doctrines they would also be judged as invalid by this same standard. Therefore it's a double standard.
No, I got your point. But you missed mine. In not answering me and just trying to sidetrack us by saying I couldn't answer you on a completely unrelated matter, you apparently are GUILTY of exactly what you accuse me of!Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 15 2007,07:09) Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,06:46) I'm also looking for that scripture that says the holy spirit is equal with Jehovah, and Jesus in power, substance, knowledge, etc.
Does anyone remember where that scripture is? I think it might be in Hezekiah? Anyone?
And where in the Bible do we read about Michael the Archangel taking on flesh and becoming Jesus of Nazareth?
Hi IS;Michael and Jesus have simply same job descriptions
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
He contends over the rising of Moses
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Son of David; Son of God…
How shall be both
When the Holy Ghost descended down on him as figure, and went forth and ministered rising the dead.1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Quote You are not open for dialogue, you completely evade scriptures that are obvious and go off on a tangent about something else!
Question WJ.When am I allowed to ask those questions?
When would someone like to answer them?
I do not want to be accused of diverting the conversation from what we're now discussing, but I do want to ask them. When would that be appropriate? Because if I don't repost them, they will jsut go unanswered again.
I'm not really the sort that evades scriptures. I noticed a while ago, that largely, this entire set of trinitarian threads is trinitarians putting their scriptures down with their interpretations and non-trinitarians explaining the twisted logic of this.
There is very little, in my opinion of people like me putting down questions or scriptures and getting any kind of response. Mostly, it's the other way around. Does anyone else agree?Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,07:31) Quote Then please show me what these scriptures mean!
They mean what you think they mean, that God's spirit is inside people, NOT GOD THE SPIRIT, but God's holy spirit.God's spirit, like the doctors finger can be inside someone and we can speak of God (like the doctor) as being in someone, but we realize that it is his finger or God's finger, his holy spirit that is actually in the person.
God the spirit, who the universe cannot contain is not literally inside you. But God's spirit is in people.
DavidLook agian!
He also says this..
1 Cor 14:25
And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.Eph 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.I Pet 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:1 Jn 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.1 Jn 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.1 Jn 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.1 Jn 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.2 Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.All these scriptures say God is in us! I dont know what your NWT glasses will show but there is One Spirit and One God and if we know him we know him by his Spirit dwelling in us which is God!
Quote (charity @ Mar. 15 2007,07:36) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 15 2007,07:09) Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,06:46) I'm also looking for that scripture that says the holy spirit is equal with Jehovah, and Jesus in power, substance, knowledge, etc.
Does anyone remember where that scripture is? I think it might be in Hezekiah? Anyone?
And where in the Bible do we read about Michael the Archangel taking on flesh and becoming Jesus of Nazareth?
Hi IS;Michael and Jesus have simply same job descriptions
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
He contends over the rising of Moses
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Son of David; Son of God…
How shall be both
When the Holy Ghost descended down on him as figure, and went forth and ministered rising the dead.1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Sorry Charity, not good evidence.Quote All these scriptures say God is in us! I dont know what your NWT glasses will show but there is One Spirit and One God and if we know him we know him by his Spirit dwelling in us which is God! Ummm. Ya. You just reposted the same post. To the nurse, the doctor says: “I am inside the heart now.” “You're in, doctor?” Yes, I, the doctor am in his heart now.”
We all understand what this means. The doctors finger or instruments are in his heart. The doctor himself isn't in this guys heart. If he were, the guy would die.
People cannot even see God, because of his immense power, yet you believe that God himself is in a person. His holy spirit is in people.Therefore, your GOD = HIS SPIRIT isn't proven by this line of reasoning, any more than doctor = his finger, is.
david
Quote No, I got your point. But you missed mine. In not answering me and just trying to sidetrack us by saying I couldn't answer you on a completely unrelated matter, you apparently are GUILTY of exactly what you accuse me of! Quote Sorry Charity, not good evidence. –Is 1:18
Paul, when I asked you for the answers to my questions, you asked me where it said that Michael and Jesus were the same, (a clever diversion, that worked apparently.)
So, you compared the questions you couldn't answer with something that you consider there to be “not good evidence” of.do you see what I'm saying?
Does this mean that your answer to my questions are really: Well, you can't prove to me that …., so my answer is in the same place that your evidence is…
Is this really what you're saying?
Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,07:38) Quote You are not open for dialogue, you completely evade scriptures that are obvious and go off on a tangent about something else!
Question WJ.When am I allowed to ask those questions?
When would someone like to answer them?
I do not want to be accused of diverting the conversation from what we're now discussing, but I do want to ask them. When would that be appropriate? Because if I don't repost them, they will jsut go unanswered again.
I'm not really the sort that evades scriptures. I noticed a while ago, that largely, this entire set of trinitarian threads is trinitarians putting their scriptures down with their interpretations and non-trinitarians explaining the twisted logic of this.
There is very little, in my opinion of people like me putting down questions or scriptures and getting any kind of response. Mostly, it's the other way around. Does anyone else agree?
DavidNo!
I have had dialogue with you only for you to get in a hot spot and then slam canned writings full of WT info!I will answer your questions, but some how I know it will be a waste of time because in my dealings with you in the past you do not take scripture literally, or sidestep it or refuse to answer and go off to something else!
I take time to answer and type my post, not just copy and paste and regurgitate over and over the same thing.
Some time I will repost something! But most of my 1580 post have been typed!
If I answer you will you answer me?
Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,07:43) Quote All these scriptures say God is in us! I dont know what your NWT glasses will show but there is One Spirit and One God and if we know him we know him by his Spirit dwelling in us which is God! Ummm. Ya. You just reposted the same post. To the nurse, the doctor says: “I am inside the heart now.” “You're in, doctor?” Yes, I, the doctor am in his heart now.”
We all understand what this means. The doctors finger or instruments are in his heart. The doctor himself isn't in this guys heart. If he were, the guy would die.
People cannot even see God, because of his immense power, yet you believe that God himself is in a person. His holy spirit is in people.Therefore, your GOD = HIS SPIRIT isn't proven by this line of reasoning, any more than doctor = his finger, is.
david
DavidIs that what you really think the Apostles thought when they penned these writings?
Sad!
I suppose we cant take the scriptures litterally at all. Its all symbolic, just what I thought you would do! I just posted about this before I read this post!
Quote No!
I have had dialogue with you only for you to get in a hot spot and then slam canned writings full of WT info!
I detest and loathe this type of false thinking. If you can't answer my questions, just say so. If you can't answer what you think are “canned writings” then what does that say? Regardless of where a question comes from, if YOU can't answer it, YOU have some thinking to do.Quote I take time to answer and type my post, not just copy and paste and regurgitate over and over the same thing.
I don't think you realize this, but the things I write, I put in files. I have most everything I've written down before, because every few months the same scriptures are put down. We keep repeating the same things, so I tend to save the scriptures that apply, etc. And yes, I have a vast library available to me, as well as the internet, dictionaries etc. If you consider this unfair, I would love a reason why.Quote Some time I will repost something! But most of my 1580 post have been typed!
That's great. “most of my” 3600 posts have been typed by me.Quote If I answer you will you answer me?
Why do we always have to have this? Doesn't it bother you, a question, that you can't answer. Isn't it like an itch you have to scratch. I am always answering questions on here. Usually, I don't have to sign anything agreeing that you will answer my questions. Notice that in the past 20 posts, I've been answering YOUR questions. Not the other way around. I haven't been LOOKING UP WHAT THE WT SAYS, as you seem to indicate I have to do at every turn.Quote Is that what you really think the Apostles thought when they penned these writings? Sad!
I suppose we cant take the scriptures litterally at all. Its all symbolic,
Who said it was symoblic. Is the doctors finger symbolic of something else?
I only think that the rest of the Bible, ie, those speaking of God have to be taken into consideration. If God cannot be contained by a temple, the universe not even being able to hold him, what sort of reasoning allows you to believe that God, THE SPIRIT is inside of you?
If I say: “I will be with you,” when I am clearly not, it is just understood that I mean, “I will be with you in spirit.”1 KINGS 8:27,29
“But will God truly dwell upon the earth? Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens, themselves cannot contain you; how much less, then, this house that I have built!. . . .’My name will prove to be there,’ to listen to the prayer with which your servant prays toward this place.”2 CORINTHIANS 6:16
“And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.””I believe you quoted this scripture before. It says wer're temples that God dwells in. But notice the scripture above this one.
(Ephesians 2:22) “In union with him YOU, too, are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit.”
1 CORINTHIANS 3:16
“Do YOU not know that YOU people are God’s temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU?”The “spirit of” God, not God the spirit. God's holy spirit dwells in people.
What is the one thing we are asked and have to have renewed?
What Part of God are we going have when are transformed so we are His Image?One Mind
Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind [and] one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Transforming
Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.Hi w,
You say
“If you worship God you are worshipping the Spirit because God is the Spirit!”So is worshipping “three persons” that you say makes up the Spirit what God wants?
Jesus said to worship the Father and He is only one of the “three persons.”
Scripture says the Spirit helps us worship God[Rom 8]so where does it say we worship the Spirit or do we rely on your derived idea?Quote (david @ Mar. 15 2007,08:10) 1 CORINTHIANS 3:16
“Do YOU not know that YOU people are God’s temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU?”The “spirit of” God, not God the spirit. God's holy spirit dwells in people.
DavidMake up your mind!
You say…
Quote It says wer're temples that God dwells in. But notice the scripture above this one. You also say…
Quote The “spirit of” God, not God the spirit. God's holy spirit dwells in people. You sound confused!
Let me use some of your sarcastic logic if I may!
I live in my house, but when I'm not home my Spirit lives in my house, thats because my Spirit is my power that when you turn the switch on you see my light but even though the power is my spirit it is not me, if it was me then I would be at home. But since I am never at home because my house is to small for me then I let my sons have my switch so they can turn on my power!
Human logic from a finite mind without the Spirit will never see nor understand the things of God because it is like a dog trying to talk to a cat. Two different natures.
How can God be in you unless his Spirit is in you?
And how can his Spirit be in you unless God is in You?
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