The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
So eternity for you started at your marriage?

The Spirit is indeed one.
But the one sent was not the One sending him.
The one sent already had life in himself and partook of flesh.
He was a monogenes Son.

When did eternity start for him?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,20:02)

Hi W, You say “The Spirit of God is One! The Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit are terms we use for the One selfsame Spirit we drink into!” Yes. But the Son had life in Himself. A man like us he died and his OWN spirit returned to God. Matt 27 ' 50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. “ mk 15 '37And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed His last. Lk 23 “46And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last. Jn 19 30Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. He died. The spirit being that had been with God in the beginning died.

NH

So the eternal Word died?

What Heresy to say the Eternal Word that was with God and was God died!

So then his nature and his divinity died also?

Shoiw me a scripture that says Jesus the Eternal Spirit, the Resurrection and the Life, was “Born again”.

Or one that says the Creator died!

Did not Jesus have Eternal Life the life that he Spoke of?

Did not his own words to the hearers apply to himself?

Jn 11:
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me **shall never die** Believest thou this?

It was his body that died! Not his Spirit!

Jm 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Jesus went into hades for three days. The Ghost that he gave up was the life in his flesh, for the life of the blood is in the flesh!

Heb 10:
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Where is the scripture that says the Spirit of Christ died?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
If Jesus did not die then scripture is broken.
He died.
He was not given ANOTHER LIVING spirit when he was born so that he had TWO.
He died.
It is you that tells us God Himself died but no the Son of God died.
No playacting.
Such was the sacrifice that he chose for YOUR SAKE.
He chose to DIE FOR YOU.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,20:58)

Hi W, So eternity for you started at your marriage? The Spirit is indeed one. But the one sent was not the One sending him. The one sent already had life in himself and partook of flesh. He was a monogenes Son. When did eternity start for him?

NH

Yes you are correct the Son is not the Father but they are the Same One Spirit!

Eternity did not start for the Word because he is the Lord from heaven who is from eternity with the Father.

He was not the Monogenes Son until he was born!

You build your doctrine on speculation. For there is “NO” scripture that says the Word had a beginning or an end.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:15)

Hi W, If Jesus did not die then scripture is broken. He died. He was not given ANOTHER LIVING spirit when he was born so that he had TWO. He died

NH

When was he given a living Spirit?

He was and is the Life!

Jn 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Did that life and the Light die?

Death was swallowed up in victory by that life!

Jesus conquered hell and death!

His Body, the temple died, and he raised it up. How could he do that if his Spirit was dead?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:15)

Hi W, If Jesus did not die then scripture is broken. He died. He was not given ANOTHER LIVING spirit when he was born so that he had TWO. He died. It is you that tells us God Himself died but no the Son of God died. No playacting. Such was the sacrifice that he chose for YOUR SAKE. He chose to DIE FOR YOU.

NH

And so again you deny John 1:1 or many others that says that Jesus was with the Father.

Did you take a black marker and cross through John 1:1?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
The Son of God was anointed with the Spirit of life at the Jordan.
Then he BECAME the source of that divine life for men.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 13 2007,21:31)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:15) Hi W, If Jesus did not die then scripture is broken. He died. He was not given ANOTHER LIVING spirit when he was born so that he had TWO. He died. It is you that tells us God Himself died but no the Son of God died. No playacting. Such was the sacrifice that he chose for YOUR SAKE. He chose to DIE FOR YOU. NH And so again you deny John 1:1 or many others that says that Jesus was with the Father. Did you take a black marker and cross through John 1:1?

Hi W,
The Word was WITH God.
It is you that says that being with
is the same as being.

The Word , Jesus Christ, died.

Jn 12
23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
“IN him was life”

God was IN him reconciling the world to Himself.
A vessel for God.
1Jn 5
” 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN his Son.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:32)

Hi W, The Son of God was anointed with the Spirit of life at the Jordan. Then he BECAME the source of that divine life for men.

NH

Yes and show me where the scriptures says that Yeshua had a born again experience.

Show me where that Spirit entered him!

It says…

Matt 3:16
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Mk 1:10
[10] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

Lk 3:22
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

The Greek word for “Upon” is Epi, which means:

) upon, on, at, by, before

2) of position, on, at, by, over, against

3) to, over, on, at, across, against

This Greek word does not mean in any shape or form that the Spirit in the form of a dove entered Jesus or filled him!

This was the Father anointing the Son by the Spirit with power.

And also this was a sign to the witnesses…

and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:44)

Hi W, “IN him was life” God was IN him reconciling the world to Himself. A vessel for God. 1Jn 5 ” 9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN his Son.

NH

Did you read those scriptures closely?

The life in the Son is his Spirit that did not die because it is and was Eternal life!

1 Jn 5:11
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is IN his Son.

Yes God has given to us etenal life that is in the Son!

This scripture does not say God gave the Son eternal life!

He is the Eternal life!

1 Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:35)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 13 2007,21:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,21:15) Hi W, If Jesus did not die then scripture is broken. He died. He was not given ANOTHER LIVING spirit when he was born so that he had TWO. He died. It is you that tells us God Himself died but no the Son of God died. No playacting. Such was the sacrifice that he chose for YOUR SAKE. He chose to DIE FOR YOU. NH And so again you deny John 1:1 or many others that says that Jesus was with the Father. Did you take a black marker and cross through John 1:1? Hi W, The Word was WITH God. It is you that says that being with is the same as being. The Word , Jesus Christ, died. Jn 12 23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

NH

Lies and yoiu know it!

You are being deceptive and disingenuos!

You know I do not say that the Word/God is the Father?

Why dont you believe this scripture for what it says?

The Word was with God and was God.

But of course the Arian view will not accept all of the scriptures!

Like I said if you havnt marked it out with a black marker then maybe you should!

And stop falsly accusing others for miss representing Jn 1:1 when it is you that dosnt accept it!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
What do you make of Acts 2
1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Were the disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit?
Did the fire or the wind enter them?
Did Christ become empowered at the Jordan or was it just an empty ceremony?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“This scripture does not say God gave the Son eternal life!”
1Cor 15 does.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“Yes and show me where the scriptures says that Yeshua had a born again experience.”
If he did not then we cannot.
We follow him.
He was made like to us in all ways except sin.
We are not born empowered from above but must be reborn.
If he was always empowered then we cannot follow him.

His single grain of wheat died that we might live.
We must be baptised into that death.

He was reborn from above.
We must be reborn from above.

He was raised.
We too will be raised.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,22:21)

Hi W, What do you make of Acts 2 1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Were the disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit? Did the fire or the wind enter them? Did Christ become empowered at the Jordan or was it just an empty ceremony?

NH

Was Jesus being filled with the Hoy Ghost in Acts 2?

Jesus is the Baptiser of the Holy Ghost and Fire!

There is no comparison to the Baptiser and the one who is being baptised!

Did I not say he was anointed with Power! But there is no evidence the Spirit filled him there. Jesus like John the baptist was filled with the Spirit from his mothers womb!

The Spirit sat upon him! He was anointed with Power to begin his ministry of healing and miracles.

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
You say
“His Body, the temple died, and he raised it up. How could he do that if his Spirit was dead?”
Where does scripture say that spirits die?

Ecc12
” 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. “

Jesus, the monogenes Son of God agreed to obey God and come into the world to die at the hands of puny men so that God's Spirit in him could have the victory.

Jn 19
” 30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. “

Acts 3
“13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

He died but was yet alive in the gift of God's Spirit.

1Peter 3
“18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;”

He died but his body did not rot and God raised him
Acts 2
' 22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 13 2007,22:42)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,22:21) Hi W, What do you make of Acts 2 1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Were the disciples baptised in the Holy Spirit? Did the fire or the wind enter them? Did Christ become empowered at the Jordan or was it just an empty ceremony? NH Was Jesus being filled with the Hoy Ghost in Acts 2? Jesus is the Baptiser of the Holy Ghost and Fire! There is no comparison to the Baptiser and the one who is being baptised! Did I not say he was anointed with Power! But there is no evidence the Spirit filled him there. Jesus like John the baptist was filled with the Spirit from his mothers womb! The Spirit sat upon him! He was anointed with Power to begin his ministry of healing and miracles.

Hi,
Perhaps you should read my post more carefully.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 of the apostles is accompanied by visible and audible signs just as the baptism in the Spirit of the Son of God was in the Jordan.

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
You say
“Jesus like John the baptist was filled with the Spirit from his mothers womb!”

scripture please.

So we cannot follow him then?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,22:32)

Hi W, You say “Yes and show me where the scriptures says that Yeshua had a born again experience.” If he did not then we cannot. We follow him. He was made like to us in all ways except sin. We are not born empowered from above but must be reborn. If he was always empowered then we cannot follow him. His single grain of wheat died that we might live. We must be baptised into that death. He was reborn from above. We must be reborn from above. He was raised. We too will be raised.

NH

You say…
He was reborn from above.

Scripture Please!

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