- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2007,05:34) peace charity.
That is worth more than Gold Nickto you too
charity
Nick,
Quote Surely the finger of God is one with God along similar lines. Nick, i don't doubt that the finger of God is “one with God” any more than I doubt that my thumb is one with me.
But my thumb is not a person. Although it can be spoken of as doing all sorts of things, spoken of in personal terms, and often used in parallel with myself, because it is something I possess or “of” me, it is not actually “me.” It's not a person. It's never called “David.” “David's thumb is David,” is nonsensical. 'David's thumb is named David,' is ridiculous.
Over and over I ask you to prove through scripture what you said, but you cannot. I consider this closed, as I've asked you about 20 times. In your own words, “do not go beyond scripture.” These words now apply to you. Oh, yes, you quote scriptures. None of which back up what you said.
Doesn't that bother you? I'd be bothered by it, if I were you
The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit ALLl the scriptures that refer to that spirit. With this viewpoint, it is logical to conclude that the holy spirit is not a person but is a powerful force that God causes to emanate from himself to accomplish his holy will.—Ps. 104:30; 2 Pet. 1:21; Acts 4:31.
To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the texts which personify the holy spirit employ a figure of speech, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood.
If the holy spirit was a person, why did Jesus not reveal it when he was on earth? His disciples, being Israelites, believed that Jehovah is unique. To this day, Jews continue to recite Deuteronomy 6:4: “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”
There is no suggestion in the Hebrew Scriptures that the Supreme Being is in three persons.Neither the Jews nor the early Christians viewed the holy spirit as part of a Trinity. That teaching came centuries later.
As A Catholic Dictionary notes: “The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362 . . . and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381”—some three and a half centuries after holy spirit filled the disciples at Pentecost!
Hi david,
The bible is the book of the Holy Spirit of God.
God has always been in heaven but the bible is the record of how God has contacted man making him aware of his need for rescue and sending His angels and His own Spirit in men and even a donkey to speak with men. The Jews were quite aware of the Spirit as God manifested in prophets and the Holy of Holies in this way. They recorded the work of God as Spirit among men and those precious contacts were recorded, preserved and studied as the real evidence of God's reality.The Spirit is just the FORCE of God?
Nonsense.
Is your finger just the force of you?Quote The Jews were quite aware of the Spirit as God manifested in prophets and the Holy of Holies in this way While you bring it up, find me one reference anywhere from any encyclopedic source that says the Jews believed the holy spirit was a person, or that it was “God.” Please, start now. I'll wait.
Quote The Spirit is just the FORCE of God?
Nonsense.
Is your finger just the force of you?First, you say the spirit is “just” the force of God.
I wouldn't limit or look down upon God's power to accomplish his will. His holy spirit is the greatest “force” in the universe. So I wouldn't call it “just” the force of God. I wouldn't call anything of God: “just” the …. of God.Secondly, what does the idea of your finger or hand represent?
1) your ability to carry out your will?or
2) does it represent you? Is your finger named Nick?
“Force,” describes energy projected and exerted on persons or things, and may be defined as “an influence that produces or tends to produce motion, or change of motion.”
Is your finger a symbol of force, or is it a symbol of Nick?
Hi david,
How did Jesus know the woman at the well had several husbands?
He received a Word of Knowledge, one of the gifts of the Spirit.
How did Paul know the woman advertising him was not of God but had a spirit of divination?
By the gift of discernment of the Spirit of God.
How did Paul pray? Using his mind but also the gift of tongues by the same Spirit.
How did Jesus know his body would be raised in three days?
By the gift of prophecy.
How did Jesus heal?
By the gift of healing.
All these gifts and more to their fullest extent shown in Jesus are aspects of the power and knowledge of God as Spirit expressed in men.
The Holy Spirit of God is not just an inanimate FORCE.
But I guess you can't go beyond JW doctrine.Quote Nick, i don't doubt that the finger of God is “one with God” any more than I doubt that my thumb is one with me. But my thumb is not a person. Although it can be spoken of as doing all sorts of things, spoken of in personal terms, and often used in parallel with myself, because it is something I possess or “of” me, it is not actually “me.” It's not a person. It's never called “David.” “David's thumb is David,” is nonsensical. 'David's thumb is named David,' is ridiculous.
Over and over I ask you to prove through scripture what you said, but you cannot. I consider this closed, as I've asked you about 20 times. In your own words, “do not go beyond scripture.” These words now apply to you. Oh, yes, you quote scriptures. None of which back up what you said.
Doesn't that bother you? I'd be bothered by it, if I were you
David
Give me your interpretation of this scripture!
II Cor 3:17
KJV
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.NLT
Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom.NIV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.ESV
Now the Lord* is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.NWT
Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.I have checked them all and they all say the same thing!
Quote When we are told that “Jehovah is a rock,” we understand it to mean that Jehovah is a stronghold. If these are all figures of speech for the holy spirit, they are somewhat odd. We are told the Spirit is a comfortor, and a teacher and on and on….
Hi david,
Where have I said the Spirit is another person?
That is the foolish derivations of men who seem to believe the living God can exist without his own living Spirit.Quote Hi david,
Where have I said the Spirit is another person?
That is the foolish derivations of men who seem to believe the living God can exist without his own living Spirit.Sorry, but your belief about the holy spirit being named “God” seemed so trinitarian or close to what they believe, I may have mixed you up with one of them.
Quote David Give me your interpretation of this scripture!
II Cor 3:17
KJV
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.NLT
Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom.NIV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.ESV
Now the Lord* is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.NWT
Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.I have checked them all and they all say the same thing!
I”ve noticed you have quoted this scripture several times before. I have absolutely no idea why or how this proves anything you've been saying.
Quote How did Jesus know the woman at the well had several husbands?
He received a Word of Knowledge, one of the gifts of the Spirit.
How did Paul know the woman advertising him was not of God but had a spirit of divination?
By the gift of discernment of the Spirit of God.
How did Paul pray? Using his mind but also the gift of tongues by the same Spirit.
How did Jesus know his body would be raised in three days?
By the gift of prophecy.
How did Jesus heal?
By the gift of healing.
All these gifts and more to their fullest extent shown in Jesus are aspects of the power and knowledge of God as Spirit expressed in men.
The Holy Spirit of God is not just an inanimate FORCE.You are right. It isn't an “inanimate FORCE.”
One definition of “inanimate” is “inactive.”
I believe that that God's holy spirit is his “active” force, ie: the opposite of “inanimate.” I guess inanimate has more than one meaning.
No animation or movement, is one meaning. Another is probably: not living, or alive.
And another is “inactive.' As I've said, we believe it is God's active force.Also, You do this a lot and I tried to get you to comment on it just a few hours ago. Here, you list a several things that I agree with. Then, in an unrelated manner, you go on to state that the holy spirit is not “just an inanimate force.” You should try to prove that.
But, just to get this straight, I don't believe that it is “just” a force or just an inanimate force.
I believe it is God's active force.david
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2007,07:31) Hi david,
Where have I said the Spirit is another person?
That is the foolish derivations of men who seem to believe the living God can exist without his own living Spirit.
I think understanding each other is Good
Also its been great to really look closer and see if what we thought and have been feed ABOUT THE HOLYSPIRIT dose match the word of God.
Its okay to be wrong sometimes these are turbulent timesdavid has given a good effort towards scriptures well done.
Little thisty but you know!!!!!
I hope all shall be free to anounce what they find is truth, and to be free without being acussed
and hopefully we may find unityBLESSED IS THE PEACE MAKERS
Hi david,
Who is the WE?
There are no group concessions so you have to drink from your own well.
God in heaven manifests the fullness of His deity in every aspect of grace and power in Christ.
That is the Holy Spirit.Quote (david @ Jan. 14 2007,07:43) Quote How did Jesus know the woman at the well had several husbands?
He received a Word of Knowledge, one of the gifts of the Spirit.
How did Paul know the woman advertising him was not of God but had a spirit of divination?
By the gift of discernment of the Spirit of God.
How did Paul pray? Using his mind but also the gift of tongues by the same Spirit.
How did Jesus know his body would be raised in three days?
By the gift of prophecy.
How did Jesus heal?
By the gift of healing.
All these gifts and more to their fullest extent shown in Jesus are aspects of the power and knowledge of God as Spirit expressed in men.
The Holy Spirit of God is not just an inanimate FORCE.You are right. It isn't an “inanimate FORCE.”
One definition of “inanimate” is “inactive.”
I believe that that God's holy spirit is his “active” force, ie: the opposite of “inanimate.” I guess inanimate has more than one meaning.
No animation or movement, is one meaning. Another is probably: not living, or alive.
And another is “inactive.' As I've said, we believe it is God's active force.Also, You do this a lot and I tried to get you to comment on it just a few hours ago. Here, you list a several things that I agree with. Then, in an unrelated manner, you go on to state that the holy spirit is not “just an inanimate force.” You should try to prove that.
But, just to get this straight, I don't believe that it is “just” a force or just an inanimate force.
I believe it is God's active force.david
I can only say Heaven help the world if david proceeds to get this all right
Quote I can only say Heaven help the world if david proceeds to get this all right
Charity, when you use the word “heaven” and ask “it” to “help” the world, I take it you are using personification.Quote david has given a good effort towards scriptures well done.
Little thisty but you know!!!!!
I hope all shall be free to anounce what they find is truth, and to be free without being acussed
and hopefully we may find unityI would rather us all find truth, than unity. Those who have the truth, are united. This group, will not ever be united, Charity. If they were united, there would be virtually no posts here.
Just wondering: What does the “little thirsty” mean Charity?
I just about never understand what you are saying. You and Is 1:18 might get along well. Or not. I don't know.
NICK,
YOU STATED:Quote Hi david,
Where have I said the Spirit is another person?I guess when you said that the holy spirit's name is “God” a word that means: “mighty ONE,” to me that indicated personage.
I realize a god can be anything, but in the sense you use it, not as a false god, I can only conclude that you mean God, as “mighty one.” When someone says: “mighty one,” I believe that implies personage.Anyway, please do tell: What is your understanding of the holy spirit?
PLEASE, DON'T JUST QUOTE SCRIPTURES. I would like an answer, which you most likely won't give. But I'd like one anyway, if possible.
david
Quote I”ve noticed you have quoted this scripture several times before. I have absolutely no idea why or how this proves anything you've been saying. David you didnt answer the question. What does this mean to you?
II Cor 3:17
KJV
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Why are you trying to ignore that this scripture plainly says that the Spirit is God!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
