The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Jn 14
“23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”
So do you believe in three spirits,
that of the Father, and
that of the Son and
that of the Spirit of God
all come to be with us??

[Cubes]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2006,10:19)

Quote Hi FF, So you agree that the Holy Spirit manifests God Himself. Those who saw Christ also “saw” God in him “for God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” 2Cor 3 ” 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to  glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” Great. So now we have two. God and His Son. Cubes Did God send himself? Did Jesus send the Father? If your answer is yes, then you need to remove some scriptures from your Bible. Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [/B]

Hi W,

Funny meeting you here! How are you?

Do you have other scriptures along the same lines which indicate that the Holy Spirit is ANOTHER/THIRD PERSON apart from the Father's own spirit?  Bring all that you've got which leads you to your conclusion, and I shall try and offer mine… which would be a repeat of things I've already said in this thread and elsewhere, but seeing how difficult it is to sort through the pages, it may bear repeating.

P.S. also, I don't think that's my post.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2006,05:19)

Quote Hi FF, So you agree that the Holy Spirit manifests God Himself. Those who saw Christ also “saw” God in him “for God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself” 2Cor 3 ” 17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to  glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” Great. So now we have two. God and His Son. Cubes Did God send himself? Did Jesus send the Father? If your answer is yes, then you need to remove some scriptures from your Bible. Jn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [/B]

Hi W,
God is in heaven.
The Spirit is as the finger of God
Because the Spirit of God is the spirit of God Himself,
and not the being of God,
then God can and does pour His own Spirit out and sends His own Spirit.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi CB: The God of Acts 5:3-4 is revealed in Acts 5:29-32, there the relationships are clarified.  The Holy Spirit is the Father's and not a “third person.” Acts 5:29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.” Luk 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and THE POWER OF THE HIGHEST shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son OF GOD. Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of GOD exalted, and having received of the FATHER the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Psa 51:11  Cast me not away from THY PRESENCE; and take not THY HOLY SPIRIT from me. ————– Acts 5:32  And we are his witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him.   Mat 11:15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Cubes

Sorry you are right. I copied the wrong post. Its the one above.

You say the Spirit is not a third person.

So my question still stands.

Did God send himself?

Did Jesus send the Father?

If your answer is yes, then you need to remove some scriptures from your Bible.

Jn 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Jn 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, God is in heaven. The Spirit is as the finger of God Because the Spirit of God is the spirit of God Himself, and not the being of God, then God can and does pour His own Spirit out and sends His own Spirit.

NH

If the Spirit is not the Being of God, Then what kinda of being is dwelling in you NH?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, God is in heaven. The Spirit is as the finger of God Because the Spirit of God is the spirit of God Himself, and not the being of God, then God can and does pour His own Spirit out and sends His own Spirit. ————–

NH

II Cor. 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, ***I will dwell in them, and walk in them***; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

“I will dwell in them, and walk in them”

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 04 2006,18:43)

Quote Hi W, God is in heaven. The Spirit is as the finger of God Because the Spirit of God is the spirit of God Himself, and not the being of God, then God can and does pour His own Spirit out and sends His own Spirit. NH If the Spirit is not the Being of God, Then what kinda of being is dwelling in you NH?

Hi W,
God is manifested by His Spirit and dwells in His sons by His Spirit but He IS in heaven where Jesus told us to pray to Him.

He dwelled with the Israelites on earth too.

Num 35
” 34Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.”

Indeed His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, was the rock with them.[1Cor 10]

Was He still in heaven then?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, God is manifested by His Spirit and dwells in His sons by His Spirit but He IS in heaven where Jesus told us to pray to Him. He dwelled with the Israelites on earth too. Num 35 ” 34Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.” Indeed His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, was the rock with them.[1Cor 10]

NH

Jer 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places that ***I*** shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not ***I*** fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

The Spirit of God is God!

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
But God is not just His Spirit.
God is not amorphous but invisible.
We are formed in His image
God IS in Heaven.

Ps 11
” 1In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?

2For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.

3If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote

Hi W, But God is not just His Spirit. God is not amorphous but invisible. We are formed in His image God IS in Heaven. Ps 11 ” 1In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? 2For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. 3If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? 4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. 5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.”

NH

God is in another realm my friend. He can not be understood by natural means.

Jesus said Kingdom of God is within you. What does that mean to you?

[NickHassan]

Hi w,
The nature of God can be seen in His creation.

Rom 1
“19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”

God can be even more closely known by His full expression in the pure vessel of His Son, according to scripture. Christ revealed to men the full nature and powers of the God dwelling within him, and that kingdom can also be seen at work in the body of Christ.

Christ brought God to men, being in Christ reconciling the world to Himself as his Spirit. That same Spirit, the Spirit of Christ inhabits and enlivens the submitted sons of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jn 14
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

TWO

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

TWO
CHRIST IS THE TRUTH

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The SOURCE OF TRUTH
THE SPIRIT OF GOD THAT ABIDES IN CHRIST SENT ALSO TO HIS BODY.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

THOSE THAT ARE BORN OF THE SPIRIT WILL RECOGNISE CHRIST AS THE SPIRIT

23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

AND THEY WILL KNOW GOD TOO IN THAT ONE SPIRIT

[Cult Buster]

NH. Open your eyes!

If the Holy Spirit was only Christ's Spirit, then explain the following:

The Bible speaks of Him as:
1. The Spirit Himself (Romans 8:16; 8:26)
2. The Spirit of God (Romans 8:9; 8:14)
3. The Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9)

… Come out of her, my people,..

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,
The Spirit is ONE.
Do you not know that when
God poured of His Spirit into Christ as the Spirit of Christ
that Spirit is further poured into Christ's body
enjoining the head with the body and
enlivening that body unto eternity.

Acts 5
“30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

[Cult Buster]

Quote

Acts 5 “30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.”

NH

The Bible doctrine of the three Persons Godhead explains all of the above and completely trashes all of your arguments.

When God is mentioned, it can refer to Christ, The Father,The Holy Spirit or The Godhead.

Come out of her  

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,
Where does the bible teach about a trinity?

[Cult Buster]

Here is a “proof text” often used by these Arian cults to try to prove their “one God” theory.

Deu 6:4  Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

One God or one Godhead?

Let us take a closer look.

Deu 6:4  Hear, O Israel: The LORD (Y'hovah) our God (Elohiym-plural) is one LORD (Y'hovah):

Here we again come across that word Elohiym.

ELOHIYM
H430
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; exceeding, God (gods)

The same Godhead present at creation.

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God (Elohiym-plural) created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:26  And God (Elohiym-plural) said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:

Jesus also quoted Deu 6:4

Mar 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God (Theos) is one Lord:

Therefore the word Theos in the New Testament can sometimes refer to the Godhead as well as Christ, The Father or The Holy Spirit individually. Each text containing Theos must be considered in its context.

Zec 7:11  But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.

Watch the squirming begin!

[NickHassan]

Hi CB,
Why should those who abide in the Word squirm?
Surely rather those who follow men would do so?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Gen 1
” 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

So God in heaven created the physical world
while His Spirit moved on the face of the waters.

Ps 139
“7Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? “

So the Spirit of God also manifests the presence of God.
God lives and works in His Spirit which imbues His creation.

Eph 2
” 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

So if we are blessed with the Spirit God dwells in us by that Spirit and as the ONE Spirit never is separate from God we have access to God by the Spirit.

1Cor 2
“10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.”

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 05 2006,16:20)

Quote Hi W, But God is not just His Spirit. God is not amorphous but invisible. We are formed in His image God IS in Heaven. Ps 11 ” 1In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain? 2For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart. 3If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? 4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. 5The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.” NH God is in another realm my friend. He can not be understood by natural means. Jesus said Kingdom of God is within you. What does that mean to you?

True, God cannot be understood by natural means. So would it not be wise in that case to preach the following:

[Author]

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