- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Nick
As I understand it, the Word knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, there is nothing hidden before Him but all things are open and naked to the eyes of Him with which we have to do.
As I have mentioned in the past the imagery God choses to use to describe His relationship with us is as a Family, He is our Father and we are His children. A family lives together both physically and also the life of the parents exist in another form in their children. There are certain bonds therefore that exist between them that are unique due to the blood line that unites them. We are united as one by not a physical blood but the Spirit of His life.Hi Nick
What do I make of Eph 2:16-22?
Well we Gentiles were afar off – because we were alien from the commonwealth of God at that time, being not included in the covenant of God (old covenant) and the nation of Israel was nigh simply by virtue of the fact that they were the covenant people of God by physical descendance from Abraham yet under the covenant not of Grace (as given to Abraham) but of Law (as received in the wilderness under Moses).
So no man can come to God unless God draws him. Abraham was included in a covenant that God made with Himself and it was by Grace. Noah also was included in a covenant that God made by Grace. Moses and the children of Israel were included in the covenant of the Law, which God gave to them. In every case they did not initiate these covenants GOd did.
Paul speaks of the household of God which includes in my opinion Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job… the people that God included in His various covenants, and thankfully also including us, byt the covenant of the blood of His son.IMHO
Hi Malcolm,
Here are some verses about God knowing our heart.
The breath of God gives us life but belongs to God and God knows us by it.
1Sam 16.7
” 7But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.”
Ps 4.21
” 21Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.”
Jer 17.10
” 10I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”Those in Christ have connection with God in Christ through the Spirit. But these verses below do not apply to those in whom the Spirit of God does not dwell surely?
Rom 8.27
” 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.”
Heb 4.12
” 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart”Hi Malcolm,
Your philosophical statement that a father lives in in some way in his progeny does not carry any consequence in biblical terms does it?
Any human father does not own the life passed from God through him, as that life force belongs to God and returns to God.
The flesh too does not belong to that father but is of the dust creation of God.Hi Nick
Job offered sacrifices to God for his Children, we have the example of the blood on the doorposts in Eqypt covering the household, the husband being the head of the house as Christ is of the Church. The scarlet thread of Rahab which gauranteed mercy for all assembled in that house. The fact that God visited his curses upon a man's children and their children's children even to a number of generations, as He also did His blessings…
I am not saying that any human father owns any life even his own – for it all belongs to God as you correctly say Nick. However there are certain stewardships granted here on earth and in heaven for men and angels.
You call my statement philosophical – is this a bad thing? We all have to have some philosphy or another. As far as I can see philosopy is fine just as long as it is not vain philosophy that denies God or His Word.
Tell me Nick what do you think God's purpose was in establishing lineages and bloodlines in the Old Testament, I would be interested in your thoughts on this.Hi Malcolm,
You say
“We all have to have some philosphy or another.”
Do we or is our hope settled in heaven?What can you tell us about lineage?
Does God give more attention to it than to individuals?Philosophy : the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.
I beleive God says to us “Come now and let us reason together….” in the book of Isaiah I think it is.
I have seen plenty of instances of you warning against the error of going on feelings or some internal spiritual guidance at the expense of the Word.
Surely we should all with the spirit of a sound mind, the mind of Christ be able to reason with God via His Word…Hi Malcolm,
Principles of Philosophy are of human wisdom.
Only the mind of Christ is of use as our own mind is a trap.
Where is the wise man in the sight of God?
1Cor 3.18fHi Nick
How do we attain to the mind of Christ Nick? We renew our mind daily, the Word of God must first come to our human mind before it can transform into the reality of the mind of Christ and produce Christ in us. God gave us the facility of thought, of reason and the ability to make a choice. We show the attitude of an overcomer when we yield ourselves to the will and purpose of God as revealed in His Word. A part of the overcoming process is to decide (a mental faculty) to accept God's thinking – His reasoning – His philosophy and not to replace it with something else.
Hi Malcolm,
The Spirit is like a wind.
The growth of Christ is us is like a shoot,
then a leaf, then the full plant and the fruit.We contribute nothing to that process except being the soil,
allowing the seed to be planted and fed
and seeking the frequent rain.Now who's the philosopher Nick
How do we allow this? By letting this mind be in us that was in Christ, by yielding our spirit to His Spirit. By being not conformed by this world but transformed by the renewing of our minds day by day.
How does this whole journey of transformation begin? By repenting – turning about in our minds – changing our thoughts – dumping them to take His thoughts instead.HI Malcolm,
The Scriptures are not philosophy.
Jn 3.8
Mk 4.14-20
Mk 4.26-28
Zech 10.1-2
Heb 6.7
Jas 5.7-8
Rom 12.2The Israelites drove out the occupants of the Promised land.
But they did not do it but God did it through them.
Daily submission allows us to be led by the Spirit [Mt 6.10,Gal 5.25,Eph 4.23, Rom 8.14]
For it is not by might or power but by the Spirit.[Zech 4.6]Nick
My point is this – I was using the word Philosophy in the context of the following meaning.
the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.
We use our reason even in accepting faith – for we are reasoning that God is true and our own thinking if contrary is false.
Now I am not interested in having a debate about semantics.
If I use the word science to describe the accuracy and perfection of God's creative work will you take me to task on that as well? For surely the creative work of God is scientific.
But I am not talking about science falsely so called – rather about the science that proves His Word is true.
There is a system of thought which is rational and reasonable that proves that God's Word is true also I believe – but any system of thought or reason that does otherwise is vain philosophy.
Whilst it is true that God's Word and indeed God can only be known by faith and that only be imparted by a Divine provision – it is also true that we must be like those noble Thessolonians who daily searched the scriptures, who proved all things – holding fast to the good.
That we much work out our own salvation with great awe.I am sure you will agree that God will not quicken by His Spirit anything that is not first firmly founded upon His Word.
To that end we are given a spirit of our mind with the capacity to understand through reason the things that are written in pen and ink – using the provision of our fleshly senses of the eyes, and to hear and process through our intelligence things spoken which we pick up through our fleshly senses of hearing.
We are given the capacity of free moral agency – to allow us to decide what we will accept and reject. Now do none of these have any bearing upon our recieving by faith the truth of His Word?ROMANS 10:13-18
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.If my use of the word 'philosophy' has offended you – I apologize. Perhaps I should have used the word 'wisdom' or 'knowledge' instead – that would probably have been a more accurate depiction of what I was trying to say.
Go back and look rather at what I am saying – instead of obsessing on this word.
Blessings
Hi Malcolm,
Nothing personal.
We have so many post here convinced that what they have learned is as the result of the inner teaching of the Holy Spirit and yet their findings vary widely and often contradict one another.We are warned to test the spirits. The Scriptures are what shows that the teaching we are receiving is indeed from the Spirit of God as Jesus showed in Jn 16.13
No one ever, when shown that their teachings differ from what is written, actually takes a back step and agrees that they need to relearn but instead they attack the messengers and will say anything to find justifications for what they have come to believe.
Human nature I suppose, but surely we need a humble spirit to see that scripture is greater than we are, and if what we say differs from scripture then guess who is wrong. Many here rapidly instead resort to logic when shown verses they cannot accept.
“Would God do this?” etc
Greeks love philosophy but we need to use scripture first, and logic second and the only according to scripture. And if something is not revealed that is more helpful to know, than to teach falsely from speculation and logic.
Hi,
IF the Holy Spirit is a person separate from the Father then scripture tells us it is that Spirit, and thus not the Father, who is the father of Jesus. That is utter nonsense as the Spirit of God is God's spirit.Matt 1
“20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.”Scripture compares knowing ourselves by our own spirit to knowing God by His Spirit so how could the Spirit be separate from God?
1Cor 2
” 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.”
Hi,
The Spirit of Christ growing in us is the morning star or daystar. It aligns with scripture and proves scripture, being also proven by scripture.
Ps 119
” 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.”2Cor4
“2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”Rev 2
“26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28And I will give him the morning star.”
Rev 22
“16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. “2Peter 1
“19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Hi,
Jn 14
” 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. “
So to be on the path we are abiding in the Word of God and the Holy Spirit will confirm these truths to us. We should not follow other spirits.
Hi,
The thought that God is JUST the Holy Spirit does not take into account God being in heaven and never leaving heaven, and God pouring out and sending the Holy Spirit.
Scripture does say
“The Lord is the Spirit”
so the Spirit is of God.Also to blaspheme or lie to the Spirit is to so treat God so that Spirit is of God.
We know too that we are made in the image of God and we are body, soul and spirit. So where is the likeness to us if God is just amorphous spirit?
We understand how we relate to our finger or arm. As such the Spirit is shown in scripture, so why is it difficult to understand that the Spirit is God at work in the visible realm of creation?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
