- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 9 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Oxy,
That word [ like all the other OMNI words] is a tool developed by men for mining truth from scripture. Comparing verse with verse and taking into account context and language, is far more useful and how we are meant to search scripture.
These other theological tools are rather useless as they limit us to the boxes men make for God and He does not fit in them.
Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 12 2006,08:08) Well that's quite a rave Malcolm. Don't forget that Jesus said and did more than was ever recorded in Scripture. The Holy Spirit does and makes known the will of the Father, therefore Jesus is the Son of the Father because God is one, yet God is three. I definately do not limit God and probably most of what you say does not apply to me, but thanks for taking the time.
Oxy,The statement “God is three” does not appear in scripture. As a matter of fact, it is a violation of Deut. 6:4,5 that reveals the first and great commandment. Moses said “Hear, O Israel; YHWH our Elohim is one YHWH: and thou shalt love YHWH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” (Matt. 22:37,38; Mk. 12:29,30; Luke 10:27). Zechariah prophesied ” And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one YHWH, and His name one.” (Zech. 14:9) You must understand that to call on the name of Jesus/Yahushuah is to call on YHWH Himself according to Joel 2;32 and Rom. 10:13,14. There is salvation/deliverance in no other name (Acts 4:12) and there is no name above His name (Phil. 2:9-11). As Paul said ” Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power.” (Col. 2:8-10). It's all in Him (Col. 2:3). Jesus/Yahushuah is YHWH Himself as scripture bears out.
Hi Malcolm,
You say
“So who is the Father of Jesus Christ then?
God the Father? … or … the Holy Spirit?”True.
Scripture says that the child conceived in Mary was by the Holy Spirit.Matt 1.20
“20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “(A)Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been [a]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit”And yet the child is the Son of the Most High God.
Lk 1.35
” 35The angel answered and said to her, “(A)The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of (B)the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason Âthe holy Child shall be called (D)the Son of God. “
So unless the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God
and not another person in God
then you have a real problem.Quote (malcolm ferris @ Aug. 12 2006,22:54) Jn 4:24
Hi Malcolm,
Jn 4.22f” 21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, (D)an hour is coming when (E)neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22″(F)You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for (G)salvation is from the Jews.
23″But (H)an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father (I)in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24″God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship (J)in spirit and truth.”
Yes God is spirit.
God is a Spirit Being.
God has a throne.
God has a footstool.
God is not so small that he can just be contained in a human body vessel.
As Paul said in Acts 17.24f“24”(A)The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is (B)Lord of heaven and earth, does not Âdwell in temples made with hands;
25nor is He served by human hands, (D)as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
26and (E)He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having (F)determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, (G)though He is not far from each one of us;
28for (H)in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
29″Being then the children of God, we (I)ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.”
And God was still in heaven then too.
Hi,
Joel 2.28-29
28″(A)It will come about after this
That I will (B)pour out My Spirit on all Âmankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29″Even on the (D)male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days”The Spirit of God
is
the Spirit of God
Who is
spiritQuote (typrsn @ Aug. 12 2006,19:27) The statement “God is three” does not appear in scripture. As a matter of fact, it is a violation of Deut. 6:4,5 that reveals the first and great commandment. Moses said “Hear, O Israel; YHWH our Elohim is one YHWH: and thou shalt love YHWH thy Elohim with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” (Matt. 22:37,38; Mk. 12:29,30; Luke 10:27). Zechariah prophesied ” And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one YHWH, and His name one.” (Zech. 14:9) You must understand that to call on the name of Jesus/Yahushuah is to call on YHWH Himself according to Joel 2;32 and Rom. 10:13,14. There is salvation/deliverance in no other name (Acts 4:12) and there is no name above His name (Phil. 2:9-11). As Paul said ” Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power.” (Col. 2:8-10). It's all in Him (Col. 2:3). Jesus/Yahushuah is YHWH Himself as scripture bears out.
This is one of the mysteries of God. If you have a look at Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.This tells us that the Word was with God (that's 2)
And the Word was God (singular)So it seems to me reasonable to see that although God is One, He is also two.
And then there's this verse.
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.So we have Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Of course there is a Father and a Son and Spirit.
But the way the Trinity doctrine mashes them up as one being or substance is not only rediculous but it breaches scripture.
There is no problem in finding verses that mention the Father, Son, or Spirit. That is by no means proof of the Trinity doctrine. The Trinity doctrine cannot be verified by those 3 words/terms.
But if we read the verses correctly the truth is there to be found.
The Spirit is the LORD.
God is spirit.
God is also love.I am man.
Yet in identity I am not man, I am who I am.
Man classifies me, my name identifies me.God is the Spirit.
But in identity he is the Father.Don't take my word for it, lets look at some verses:
God is Spirit: (John 4:24)
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”There is one God the Father: 1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father,…
Also see Ephesians 4:6There is one Spirit: Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were calledThere is one Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Corinthians 8:6
…and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Now if the Holy Spirit has a seperate identity, then there must be 2 Spirits because There is one God the Father, God is Spirit, and there is in addition to one God the Father — one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called—
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.It is quite easy to understand that God the Father who dwells in Heaven and even outside his own creation, can also dwell inside his creation by his spirit. Surely the Father doesn't reside in us in identity does he? But by his Spirit he does dwell in his people.
So he is above, but his spirit can be anywhere and everywhere sin is not.
Does that make sense?
It does make sense, except that the holy Spirit is in us, and we have a sinful nature.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, indeed the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
I should add that it seems there is trinity which means all 3 aspects of God lumped together and coequal, which is of course a load of nonsense.
But to me the word trinity has only ever been a way of saying 3. Nothing more.
Oxy …. the Trinity doctrine does not say that “all three aspects of God (are) lumped together”…. God's being is simple, undivided… perhaps this will be helpful to you….
I. There is but one only,[1] living, and true God,[2] who is infinite in being and perfection,[3] a most pure spirit,[4] invisible,[5] without body, parts,[6] or passions;[7] immutable,[8] immense,[9] eternal,[10] incomprehensible,[11] almighty,[12] most wise,[13] most holy,[14] most free,[15] most absolute;[16] working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will,[17] for his own glory;[18] most loving,[19] gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin;[20] the rewarder of them that diligently seek him;[21] and withal, most just, and terrible in his judgments,[22] hating all sin,[23] and who will by no means clear the guilty.[24]
1. Deut. 6:4; I Cor. 8:4, 6; Gal. 3:20
2. I Thess. 1:9; Jer. 10:10
3. Job 11:7-9; Job 26:14; Psa. 139:6
4. John 4:24
5. I Tim. 1:17; John 1:18
6. Deut. 4:15-16; John 4:24 with Luke 24:39
7. Acts 14:11, 15
8. James 1:17; Mal. 3:6
9. I Kings 8:27; Jer. 23:23-24
10. Psa. 90:2; I Tim. 1:17
11. Psa. 145:3; Rom. 11:34
12. Gen. 17:1; Rev. 4:8
13. Rom. 16:27
14. Isa. 6:3: Rev. 4:8
15. Psa. 115:3; Isa. 14:24
16. Isa. 45:5,6; Exod. 3:14
17. Eph. 1:11
18. Prov. 16:4; Rom. 11:36; Rev. 4:11
19. I John 4:8, 16; John 3:16
20. Exod. 34:6-7
21. Heb. 11:6
22. Neh. 9:32-33; Heb. 10:28-31
23. Rom. 1:18; Psa. 5:5-6; 11:5
24. Exod. 34:7a; Nah. 1:2-3, 6II. God hath all life,[25] glory,[26] goodness,[27] blessedness,[28] in and of himself; and is alone in and unto himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made,[29] nor deriving any glory from them,[30] but only manifesting his own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things;[31] and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever himself pleaseth.[32] In his sight all things are open and manifest,[33] his knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature,[34] so as nothing is to him contingent, or uncertain.[35] He is most holy in all his counsels, in all his works, and in all his commands.[36] To him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience he is pleased to require of them.[37]
25. Jer. 10:10; see John 5:26
26. Acts 7:2
27. Psa. 119:68
28. I Tim. 6:15; see Rom. 9:5
29. Acts 17:24-25
30. Luke 17:10
31. Rom. 11:36
32. Rev. 4:11; Dan. 4:25, 35; see I Tim. 6:15
33. Heb. 4:13
34. Rom. 11:33-34; Psa. 147:5
35. Acts 15:18; Ezek. 11:5
36. Psa. 145:17; Rom. 7:12
37. Rev. 5:12-14III. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost:[38] the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father;[39] the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.[40]
38. Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19; II Cor. 13:14; see Eph. 2:18
39. John 1:14, 18; see Heb. 1:2-3; Col. 1:1540. John 15:26; Gal. 4:6
blessings
Hi E,
But the bible does not teach the trinity theory about God in any of it's evolutionary forms.
So before you expound from the verses that you have found that might hint at such a thing should we not take cogniscence of the fact that it is not a direct bible teaching but only a derived idea- in case it is found to be wrong, or need further modifications – before you teach it as truth if you fear God??Thanks E, Yeah, I am pretty familiar with those Scriptures. I have seen a couple of warped interpretations of what some people think the Trinity is on here tho.
As I said on one other topic, I think Nick may well have left the JW's, but they haven't left him.
Hi Oxy,
I hope you were not sure you were guided to come to such a conclusion as I have never darkened their door.
How did you come to nonscriptural conclusions about God you should rather be asking yourself perhaps?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 19 2006,05:29) Hi Oxy,
I hope you were not sure you were guided to come to such a conclusion as I have never darkened their door.
How did you come to nonscriptural conclusions about God you should rather be asking yourself perhaps?
My apologies then Nick. I have obviously got you confused with someone else. I was sure that it was you who said that they had been in JW's for quite some years, but had now left.Obviously my mistake and I apologise once again Nick.
no probs.
I certainly do not believe death gives forgiveness to all men,
Jesus is Michael the archangel,
some men[psst JWs only] go to heaven
and all their other nonsense.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
