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Hey Cubes,
Quote I agree, Malcolm F; and Is 1:18
I didn't write this post, if that's what you mean by “and Is 1:18”. I have registered under one username; Is 1:18. I do agree with a lot of what Malcolm Ferris wrote though.Quote I agree too w/ the last sentence of your last post here although NOT if it means that the person is another person other than the Father.
Not sure the Bible agrees with you here. If it is only one person that indwell us (I don't agree that it is though) you can make a very strong case for that person being Christ. Lets weigh it up.These are the passages that suggest that the Father of Yahshua indwells us
1 Corinthians 3:16 – Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 14:25 – And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.1 John 4:4 – Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
NB: These may or may not refer exclusively to the Father, as Jesus is also called theos in the NT
These suggest it is Yahshua that indwells us:
John 14:20 – At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 15:4 – Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Romans 8:10 – And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Galatians 4:6 – Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” (would the Father's Spirit call out “Abba, Father”??)
2 Corinthians 13:5 – Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (Do you not know that Christ be in you Cubes?)
Ephesians 3:17 – That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Colossians 1:27 – To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
1 John 2:14 – I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the Word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. (According to John, is the Father or Jesus the “Word of God”?)
These scriptures CANNOT be easily explained away. There are too many and they are unambiguous.
There is also this one where the Spirit of “God” and “Jesus” appear to be used interhangably:
Romans 8:9-11 – But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the [/b]Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
In this verse both persons are said to make their abode with us:
John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Then there are these scriptures which point to a unique personage from both the Son and Father, because He is sent by both the Father and Son. Also, importantly, Jesus did not say that He (or the Father) would send Himself or His own Spirit. Nor did He say that He would send the Fathers Spirit:
John 14:16,17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 – But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:7 – Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:13 – Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1 Corinthians 6:19 – What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Notice in John 16:13 that the Spirit would only speak what he hears. How could this possibly be the Father's Spirit? For a start he “hears” and then “speaks”. Who does he hear from? Himself? This is clearly ludicrous. It must be a different person.
I do, however, agree that it is One Spirit that indwells us though:
1 Corinthians 12:13 – For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.Ephesians 2:18 – For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 4:4 – There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:6 – One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Your thoughts?
(NB: although I made an effort to find all of the relevant verses, this is not an exhaustive list, there may be others I missed).
Sorry about the double post – I had issues with the color scheme
Hey Cubes,
Quote I agree, Malcolm F; and Is 1:18
I didn't write this post, if that's what you mean by “and Is 1:18”. I have registered under one username; Is 1:18. I do agree with a lot of what Malcolm Ferris wrote though.Quote I agree too w/ the last sentence of your last post here although NOT if it means that the person is another person other than the Father.
Not sure the Bible agrees with you here. If it is only one person that indwell us (I don't agree that it is though) you can make a very strong case for that person being Christ. Lets weigh it up.These are the passages that suggest that the Father of Yahshua indwells us
1 Corinthians 3:16 – Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 14:25 – And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.1 John 4:4 – Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
NB: These may or may not refer exclusively to the Father, as Jesus is also called theos in the NT
These suggest it is Yahshua that indwells us:
John 14:20 – At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 15:4 – Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Romans 8:10 – And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Galatians 4:6 – Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.” (would the Father's Spirit call out “Abba, Father”??)
2 Corinthians 13:5 – Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (Do you not know that Christ be in you Cubes?)
Ephesians 3:17 – That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Colossians 1:27 – To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
1 John 2:14 – I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the Word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. (According to John, is the Father or Jesus the “Word of God”?)
These scriptures CANNOT be easily explained away. There are too many and they are unambiguous.
There is also this one where the Spirit of “God” and “Jesus” appear to be used interhangably:
Romans 8:9-11 – But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the [/b]Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
In this verse both persons are said to make their abode with us:
John 14:23 – Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Then there are these scriptures which point to a unique personage from both the Son and Father, because He is sent by both the Father and Son. Also, importantly, Jesus did not say that He (or the Father) would send Himself or His own Spirit. Nor did He say that He would send the Fathers Spirit:
John 14:16,17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:26 – But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 16:7 – Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 16:13 – Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
1 Corinthians 6:19 – What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Notice in John 16:13 that the Spirit would only speak what he hears. How could this possibly be the Father's Spirit? For a start he “hears” and then “speaks”. Who does he hear from? Himself? This is clearly ludicrous. It must be a different person.
I do, however, agree that it is One Spirit that indwells us though:
1 Corinthians 12:13 – For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.Ephesians 2:18 – For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians 4:4 – There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Ephesians 4:6 – One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Based on the evidence, if only one person's spirit indwells us then it MUST be Yahshua's. I think that when the whole council of God's word is car efully examined though then you have to conclude that more than one personage is involved (although only one universal Spirit). Your thoughts?
NB: although I made an effort to find all of the relevant and most-clear verses, this is not an exhaustive list, there may be others I missed.
If you are viewing the Holy Spirit as a person only then there would be a lot of places where this gets tricky.
As has been illustrated there are places where the Spirit we recieve is identified as coming from the Father. Also there are places where the origin is identified as coming from the Son.
So if you are viewing it in the context of a person this is problematic.Jesus the Son of God is also known as the Seed, Royal Seed of Abraham and this is the context in which I believe things become clear.
The Father is the Great planter or gardener, Jesus is the vine, we are the branches.
Therefore the same one Spirit of Life, God's Life, flows throughout the entire thing.I am a father, I have five children. My life, indeed my very genetic material is in each of my children. And they came forth from out of me as seed.
Each of my children is a part of me, of my life. And I am a part of them also you could say. Yet not one of them is me. Neither am I any of them. I could potentially have hundreds of children and there would be no more of me…Yet in all of this Jesus as the first born Son, and uniquely begotten one, holds the very special position that none of us can, of being the personal tabernacle for the One Spirit of God in person.
That is the way I believe the Spirit of God reveals it to be in His Holy Word, and I can see no place where this simple understanding is contradicted.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2006,22:43) Amen Kenrch.
God is in heaven and His Spirit lives and does his work on earth, even through human vessels..
…So much for trinity theories
Oh wow. Nick, welcome back. It's great to hear from you.
I hope you can stick around.Hi t8 and cubes and all,
Who would divide God Almighty from His own Spirit?
Only a very brave but extraordinarily foolish theologian.
Hi,
Lk 11.20
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God then the kingdom of God has come upon you”Was he using his own powers? No.
He was using the Power of the indwelling Spirit of God within him.
He was a vessel and an instrument for the work of God done through him.
This was showing that God Himself already was ruling His Kingdom through Christ on earth.
We can follow him having this great treasure within our earthen vessels and thus God's plan shown in scripture will eventually be fulfilled;
1Cor 15.28
“And when all things are subjected to him, then the Son also will subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL”Quote (malcolm ferris @ Mar. 28 2006,04:45) Quote (kenrch @ Mar. 28 2006,02:58) Quote (malcolm ferris @ Mar. 28 2006,00:28) Is the Holy Spirit a person?
Well evidently according to the Gospel of John – yes.Who is the Holy Spirit?
according to Jesus – speaking to the woman at the well – God!
also according to Matt 1:18 – for the Holy Spirit is said to be the Father of Jesus Christ.Is God more than one spirit?
No – the first commandment and Jesus own words confirm He is a (singular) Spirit.Who is the Spirit of God's Son?
Gal 4:6 – which tells us God has sent this spirit into our hearts.I contend that when we recieve the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit , the Spirit of His Son, upon rebirth. We are not recieving 3 spritis, it is one spirit. We are not recieving 3 persons but one. We are not literally recieving God – we are recieving of His Spirit, His Life, to become His Sons.
malcolm ferris,If I'm reading right you are saying that the Holy Spirit is :
I contend that when we recieve the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit , the Spirit of His Son, upon rebirth. We are not recieving 3 spritis, it is one spirit. We are not recieving 3 persons but one. We are not literally recieving God – we are recieving of His Spirit, His Life, to become His Sons.
I contend that when we recieve the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit , the Spirit of His Son,
1) Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit and also the Spirit of His Son.
Would this not mean that the Father and Son have the Same Spirit?
Father + Son + their Spirit Is this what you said?
We are given the authority to become (be called) the sons of God upon a spritual rebirth according to John 1:12.This is not the power (dunamos) to become something we are not already potentially. We are not goats that become sheep.
This is the power (exusia) or authority to become/ or move into a position that we already had before the foundation of the world.
It is because we ARE sons that he sends forth His Spirit into our hearts. This is the point at which through a rebirth we now have eternal life.
So we are called sons OF God, even as Jesus was the first born of this group. Called the Son of God, unique in position, status and the way he came into the world.
So the Holy Spirit is God, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is God's power of eternal life.
You asked would that not mean that the Sprit of God and the Spirit of Jesus is the same spirit?
Jesus said I and My Father are one.
One what?
Heb 2 tells us Jesus is not afraid to call us brothers because we are all one.
One what?
Paul tells us that by one Spirit we are all baptised into one body.
So the one body, of which Jesus Christ is our head has one life that flows through it – the life of God, how? by His Spirit.
Hey Nick!!,
Glad to see you well! Stay awhile I think everyone missed you. I know I did!Malcolm,
Don't get me wrong I whole heartily agree! The reason I asked is that I said that back in Oct 05.
Father + Son +their Spirit= God
Yeah! yeah! yeah!!!
Our God is a awesome God he reigns from heaven on earth.
Our God is a awesome God Our God is a Awesome God!!Thank you, thank you, thank you,
Kenny (kenrch)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2006,09:43) Hi t8 and cubes and all, Who would divide God Almighty from His own Spirit?
Only a very brave but extraordinarily foolish theologian.
I assume this was directed at me, likewise the “egghead theologian” comment in the John 19:37 thread. It's very easy to make provocative and demeaning comments in response to another's post(s). Much more difficult to go through a post and make a point by point critical assessment of the information, or go to the effort to write a scriptural study of your own. I personally think it shows much more respect (and is more respectable) to do that later. I also don't think it's “foolish” to collate a body of scriptural verses on a topic and try to draw meaningful conclusions from it.Hi Is 1.18,
I am much amazed that you would take this as directed to you. These comments are directed to all to appeal to those who have commonsense. It is our duty to defend scriptural truth and expose doctrinal error.Are you a theologian? Or are you following them?
Then if not in no way do these apply to you in any possible way.
I apologise for any unintentional derived implication however.For you behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called . . .but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame . . . in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God.
1 Cor 1:26-29MATTHEW 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.Hi Is 1.18,
We have the mind of Christ. We have been transformed by the renewing of our hearts and minds according to scriptural truth The Word is truth as is Christ. We abide now in the Word as he told us to and we build only on the foundation rock of his teachings.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2004,04:21) Yes Jesus himself taught that no man can see God and when scriptures talk about a man seeing God, it is God's glory that they are seeing. That glory is often light or a divine being clothed in light sent to represent the invisible God, such as the Angel of the Lord. However this eternal God who cannot be fully contained within any finite boundary (especially a body) certainly lives inside his people and of course primarily in his son. But I assume that he dwells in them by his Spirit. But as Nick pointed out, not even the whole of creation can contain God.
John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?John 17:23
I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.God is in Christ and Christ is in God. God and his Christ are inside his people. It is by the Spirit of God that we are one. One in Spirit, many in soul/identity.
I like that One in Spirit, many in soul/identity.If you consider the idea of identity it is a little paradoxical.
It can mean both that which makes us unique and also that to which we belong, by virtue of being the same as.
For example I am identified as a human being due the the sameness of life through a genetic blueprint that all humans possess.
I am also identified as an individual unique from all other human beings by the way in which that combination of genetic materials is assembled.
We are all children of God by one spirit in the rebirth, we are each unique as children by the unique combination of gifts each recieves to express this life.
Rom 12:4-8
1 Corinthians 12
Seem to reflect this idea…Quote (Woutlaw @ Nov. 23 2005,06:55) I would also like feedback on others definition of Repent. I've heard some people say that the Spirit can't live in you if there is unrepentent sin. Some define repent as cleaning yourself up. this is hogwash, you can't possibly clean yourself up. Apart from Christ all you have is the sinful nature. and all the sinful nature can do is sin. It knows nothing else. Now i was told that maybe the reason i haven't recieved the Holy Spirit is because i haven't completely repented. Ummm i define repent as becoming conscious of your sin and how it seperates you from God, then turning to God. If we can clean up ourselves, then what would we need a Saviour for?
Hogwash is correct, it says somewhere in the bible that as a dog returns to its vomit and the sow to her wallowing in the mire, sow – hog – both pigs by nature, as is a dog.
So in order for sin to be addressed there is a requirement for a nature change. The rebirth alone accomplishes this.
Yet we are told to repent in order to recieve it, and this is a good question therefore – what does repent mean?
Many equate great sorrow and regret with repentance which is incomplete as an answer because it says godly sorrow works repentance, not godly sorrow is repentance.
What is godly sorrow? It is the great remorse that results from realizing you have been wrong in your thoughts and actions concerning God and the worship of Him.
So repentance I believe iis the changing of the mind in order to recieve the new nature, it is the conforming of the mind to His mind through Christ Jesus.
The process being a continual one as our mind are renewed day by day.
Clearly we do not have godly sorrow day by day, but it is a realisation of our error and our inadequacy that causes godly sorrow, so we turn our minds from our former thoughts to His Word and thereby are conformed and quickened to new life.I must say, Nick your right, Ferris I don't get it , you make the Son of God talking to himself in John 17 as to which the Son of God always had His God , our Father and His will to be done . And He said no man can come unto my Father except through me , the Son of God. As the Son of God went to be with His Father , His Father sent an the comforter which is the Holy Spirit to each one of us. For with God all things are possible. ……Amen:D
Quote (thehappyman @ April 25 2006,06:28) I must say, Nick your right, Ferris I don't get it , you make the Son of God talking to himself in John 17 as to which the Son of God always had His God , our Father and His will to be done . And He said no man can come unto my Father except through me , the Son of God. As the Son of God went to be with His Father , His Father sent an the comforter which is the Holy Spirit to each one of us. For with God all things are possible. ……Amen:D 
??
Could you please explain what you mean?Quote (malcolm ferris @ April 25 2006,00:56) Quote (Woutlaw @ Nov. 23 2005,06:55) I would also like feedback on others definition of Repent. I've heard some people say that the Spirit can't live in you if there is unrepentent sin. Some define repent as cleaning yourself up. this is hogwash, you can't possibly clean yourself up. Apart from Christ all you have is the sinful nature. and all the sinful nature can do is sin. It knows nothing else. Now i was told that maybe the reason i haven't recieved the Holy Spirit is because i haven't completely repented. Ummm i define repent as becoming conscious of your sin and how it seperates you from God, then turning to God. If we can clean up ourselves, then what would we need a Saviour for?
Hogwash is correct, it says somewhere in the bible that as a dog returns to its vomit and the sow to her wallowing in the mire, sow – hog – both pigs by nature, as is a dog.
So in order for sin to be addressed there is a requirement for a nature change. The rebirth alone accomplishes this.
Yet we are told to repent in order to recieve it, and this is a good question therefore – what does repent mean?
Many equate great sorrow and regret with repentance which is incomplete as an answer because it says godly sorrow works repentance, not godly sorrow is repentance.
What is godly sorrow? It is the great remorse that results from realizing you have been wrong in your thoughts and actions concerning God and the worship of Him.
So repentance I believe iis the changing of the mind in order to recieve the new nature, it is the conforming of the mind to His mind through Christ Jesus.
The process being a continual one as our mind are renewed day by day.
Clearly we do not have godly sorrow day by day, but it is a realisation of our error and our inadequacy that causes godly sorrow, so we turn our minds from our former thoughts to His Word and thereby are conformed and quickened to new life.
Hi,
1Peter 3.21 explains that the washing of the inside of the cup sufficient to satify God of our cleanliness is in repentance and baptism in water. Then the Spirit can take up residence within and show us what else needs putting right and leading us to make thoose changes-if we feed on the Word and obey.
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