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Shimmer,
You wrote:
Quote It's sin/hardness of heart that separates us from God and grieves the Holy Spirit.
Excellent discovery! Do you now know who the peace is between by the “peacemakers” Jesus was referring to in the b-attitude, aka promise of the new covenant, addressed to those that performed that service?
I agree with the modern Rabbinic Jews on their description that the Spirit of God has characteristics of a person and yet is an attribute of God. God after all is not a human being.
Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 03 2010,01:13) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2010,15:05) Adam,
I will give you my understanding on the question you asked at the top of this page. The Father and the Son both have a perfect spirit. The Father's spirit unites with the Son's spirit and then that united spirit of the Father and the Son, called the Comforter is a gift from the Father, through the Son and unites with the believer's spirit which once united represents one spirit…and that is how both the Father and the Son dwell within us, by their spirit. It is also how the spirit of Christ intercedes for us to the Spirit of the Father.You are probably aware of the widow lady and her sons. She asked Elisha the prophet how to pay her debt or her sons will be bought as slaves. Well, what happened was this, he took the jar of oil that the lady had and filled borrowed jars till there were no more jars. The oil just kept pouring and pouring and pouring without running out. She was to take the jars of oil and sell the oil to pay her debt. Suppose that the Comforter is like the oil in that first jar that fills other jars and never runs out…it remains in the first jar and flows into all the other jars.
The Holy Spirit is likened to oil in the Bible, btw. Read the story of the ten virgins who were running out of oil in their lamps. Five of them were wise and had immediate access to more oil and five of them did not. The oil was representing the Holy Spirit. Also, the menorah during the first Hanakuh and how there was only enough oil to light it for one day but miraculously the menorah remained lit for 8 days. Our spirit is likened to a lamp and the oil that fills our lamp is likened to the Holy Spirit. That oil is necessary for us to be lit up for Jesus.
So, in the OT, the Holy Spirit would come on some at times to empower them for something specific. Now, after Jesus victory over death, that Spirit is a continually filling of the Spirit filled believer.
You might like to read this:
http://www.endtimepilgrim.org/tenvirg.htmThe 'inner person' of God fills the inner person of man, in that way the Spirit is in the Father and the Son and outside of the Father and the Son all at the same time like the oil in the jar of the widow lady.
I hope that helps
Hi Sis Kathi,
Thanks for your good response to my post above. I think you have given good explanation on Holy Spirit. But I am having difficulty in understanding this portion of your post“The Father and the Son both have a perfect spirit. The Father's spirit unites with the Son's spirit and then that united spirit of the Father and the Son, called the Comforter is a gift from the Father, through the Son and unites with the believer's spirit which once united represents one spirit…and that is how both the Father and the Son dwell within us, by their spirit. It is also how the spirit of Christ intercedes for us to the Spirit of the Father.”
How can Father's Spirit and Son's Spirit become one comforter?
Yes you are right in saying that God and Jesus take their abode in a believer as per John 14:23. But I am having difficulty in understanding the logic of sending the Holy Spirit by son from the Father and also Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as per this verse in John 16:
“13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
So I find Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as well as Father. He is another person than Father and Son as Trinitarians seem to assume. I am having much difficulty in understanding this strange doctrine of N.T writers when compared to O.T where there is no ambiguity in understanding the Spirit of God as God's own Spirit and His presence.
Thanks and love to you
Adam
Adam,
Thank you! As far as this goes:Quote “The Father and the Son both have a perfect spirit. The Father's spirit unites with the Son's spirit and then that united spirit of the Father and the Son, called the Comforter is a gift from the Father, through the Son and unites with the believer's spirit which once united represents one spirit…and that is how both the Father and the Son dwell within us, by their spirit. It is also how the spirit of Christ intercedes for us to the Spirit of the Father.” How can Father's Spirit and Son's Spirit become one comforter?
The two spirits become one spirit. You have heard where two flesh become one, right? You have probably heard of the unity of the spirit too. The Holy Spirit as the Comforter is fellowshiping not only as the Spirit from the Father but also the Spirit from the Son. Adding the Spirit of the Son to the Spirit of the Father to dwell in us gives us a brother who knows what we are going through and can help us to know how to pray to the Father. Within believer's there exists our new spirit, the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father. All are in fellowship within the believer. The believer is one with the Father and the Son.
More later, I have to go for now…
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 02 2010,23:44) Well written kathi. Another thing is the Holy Spirit can be grieved or quenched. How do you see this ?
Isnt it sin that grieves or quenches it ?
Thanks Karmarie!Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2010,06:51) Adam,
Thank you! As far as this goes:Quote “The Father and the Son both have a perfect spirit. The Father's spirit unites with the Son's spirit and then that united spirit of the Father and the Son, called the Comforter is a gift from the Father, through the Son and unites with the believer's spirit which once united represents one spirit…and that is how both the Father and the Son dwell within us, by their spirit. It is also how the spirit of Christ intercedes for us to the Spirit of the Father.” How can Father's Spirit and Son's Spirit become one comforter?
The two spirits become one spirit. You have heard where two flesh become one, right? You have probably heard of the unity of the spirit too. The Holy Spirit as the Comforter is fellowshiping not only as the Spirit from the Father but also the Spirit from the Son. Adding the Spirit of the Son to the Spirit of the Father to dwell in us gives us a brother who knows what we are going through and can help us to know how to pray to the Father. Within believer's there exists our new spirit, the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father. All are in fellowship within the believer. The believer is one with the Father and the Son.
More later, I have to go for now…
Hi Sis Kathi,
Thanks again for your response on my queries. But I still reserve my opinions on Holy Spirit doctrine of N.T. Two flesh becoming one is only figurative sense but not a literal way. Wife and husband still remain two entities. Father and Son are two different persons and are having two different spirits. They can become one in a figurative sense rather in unity of spirit but not in a literal way. I know Trinitarian concepts on God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit rightly define what the N.T describes three of them. They all some how are seen united in role and functions as divinity. Therefore I see gap in N.T theology.Thanks and love to you
AdamQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2010,21:37) Adam, It is true that modern Rabbinic Jews like the writers of the New and Old Testaments disagree with the militiaperson God of the Trinitarians but they do believe that it has “a certain degree of personification while remaining one of God’s attributes, Wikipedia article on Holy Spirit. The New Testament writers are merely expressing this belief by what they teach and so they confuse some. This may be why the Spirit seems to be treated as both a person and also as an attribute of God. God after all is not a human being like us.
I do not know the scriptures from the Old Testament used to support the Rabbinic Jew conclusion on this issue.
I am quite sure the Jews still apply the label of Holy Spirit to the Spirit of God.
Hi brothers Kerwin and Gene,
Here are some of my observations on Holy Spirit as given in N.T when compared to O.T;1. Holy Spirit is a separate person from God as well from Jesus supposed Messiah.
2. Holy Spirit is God like Father and Son.
3. Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as well as Father.
4. Holy Spirit intercedes for believers to God the Father.
5. Holy Spirit takes the role of Jesus after his departure.
6. Holy Spirit has his own will like the other two Godly persons.
But Hebrew scriptures differ with these views. Jewish Messiah will never take the role of God in terms of divinity. His spirit will never function as Holy Spirit role. There is no scriptural basis for Messiah abiding in a believer in Hebrew scriptures. There is no concept of believing or praying to Messiah for personal salvation. N.T repeatedly quotes that Jesus is Lord just like Yahweh is Lord in O.T. It says there is one God one Lord and one Spirit. This is the mystery of Holy Trinity as described in Eph 4. Therefore I find difficulty in understanding this strange concept of Holy Spirit given in N.T.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamAdam,
I do not understand all those points from scripture. Could you include the scriptures that you believe support your conclusion for each point?
I believe that the idea that the Holy Spirit is a separate person from God is caused by assuming that since it has characteristics of a person it must be separate and self willed. The Rabbinic Jews do not agree with that assumption.
The closest I have heard to scripture stating the Spirit of God is God is that the Lord Is the Spirit in 2 Corinthians 3:17. The Rabbinic Jews believe it is an attribute of God but not a separate person. The idea expressed by 2 Corinthians does not support the idea the Spirit is a separate person from God. On the other hand Galatians 5:16 states “walk by the spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh” thus showing that the Spirit is an attribute of God, i.e. his righteousness. It is also God’s active force as shown by the fact it produced a miracle within the womb of Mary but I cannot confirm that such a point is a Jewish teaching at present.
You state “Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as well as Father.” If it is stating it would not really be stating anything as Jesus is subject to the Father and so the Spirit of God would be subject to God through Jesus. Jesus thus serves as God’s tool to gift his attribute of righteousness to those who seek him while still being separated from his mankind by their sins. That attribute will then reconcile them to God. I only know of John 14:16 that states God will send the Spirit in Jesus’ name.
The “Holy Spirit intercedes for believers to God the Father” is an aspect of the New Covenant and is only seen through prophecy, which can be hard to understand, in the Old Testament. I believe it requires a topic to itself.
You state “Holy Spirit takes the role of Jesus after his departure”. I wonder “why you have problem with the Holy Spirit serving as a proxy?” A proxy can be referred to as the one it represents, such as when an angel is called God. Such is done when Jesus states that he and the Father will be in believers and believers will be in them. God’s Spirit of righteousness is what is in the believers and in both Jesus and God thus uniting all, John 17:21.
I am unsure why you state that the New Testament makes the case the Spirit of God has its own will. Could you please enlighten me?
When does Jesus take the roll of God as far as divinity in the New Testament?
Jesus’ spirit does not function in the same role as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God it called the Spirit of Christ because it is the Spirit Jesus lives by and God passes through him to those that believe in The Anointed. In other words, believers derive the Spirit from Jesus though God is still the source.
Jesus does not abide in the believer, rather the Spirit of God serving as a proxy for both Jesus and God abides in the believer.
Where in the New Testament, does and writer state to pray to the Anointed for personal salvation? Jesus specifically states for believers to ask God in his name.
Jesus is Lord, aka king, as David also is lord; but with more authority and a larger jurisdiction. God is his God, just as he declares.
The believers are also a part of the unity, not trinity, with God, Jesus, and the Spirit. The Unity is not God.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2010,08:40) Shimmer, You wrote:
Quote It's sin/hardness of heart that separates us from God and grieves the Holy Spirit.
Excellent discovery! Do you now know who the peace is between by the “peacemakers” Jesus was referring to in the b-attitude, aka promise of the new covenant, addressed to those that performed that service?
I agree with the modern Rabbinic Jews on their description that the Spirit of God has characteristics of a person and yet is an attribute of God. God after all is not a human being.
Hi Kerwin. Hope your feeling better by the way.I have no idea what you are asking here, sorry !
Sin grieves the Holy Spirit. Sin can be many things. I also read today about Gaurdian Angels and how our sin effects them too. But that's a different story and it's late and I should really go.
But thanks Kerwin.
Shimmer,
I am sorry if my wording is awkward. I will try to make it smoother. Jesus states “blessed are the peacemakers” in Matthew 5. I would like to know which two parties do you believe that these peacemakers make peace between?
Your discovery let me to an answer that I am convinced is from God.
Thank you for your concern. I am back to work with restrictions. I still have room for improvement but am feeling better than at first.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 05 2010,00:10) Shimmer, I am sorry if my wording is awkward. I will try to make it smoother. Jesus states “blessed are the peacemakers” in Matthew 5. I would like to know which two parties do you believe that these peacemakers make peace between?
Your discovery let me to an answer that I am convinced is from God.
Thank you for your concern. I am back to work with restrictions. I still have room for improvement but am feeling better than at first.
Hi Kerwin. Dont worry, I was tired when I read it, I think it was late at night where I live.Glad to hear you are feeling better.
When Jesus said 'Happy the peacemakers — because they shall be called Sons of God'. I always thought this was when there was war or invasion and people try to stop it.
Please share the answer you have been shown.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2010,22:03) Adam, I do not understand all those points from scripture. Could you include the scriptures that you believe support your conclusion for each point?
I believe that the idea that the Holy Spirit is a separate person from God is caused by assuming that since it has characteristics of a person it must be separate and self willed. The Rabbinic Jews do not agree with that assumption.
The closest I have heard to scripture stating the Spirit of God is God is that the Lord Is the Spirit in 2 Corinthians 3:17. The Rabbinic Jews believe it is an attribute of God but not a separate person. The idea expressed by 2 Corinthians does not support the idea the Spirit is a separate person from God. On the other hand Galatians 5:16 states “walk by the spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh” thus showing that the Spirit is an attribute of God, i.e. his righteousness. It is also God’s active force as shown by the fact it produced a miracle within the womb of Mary but I cannot confirm that such a point is a Jewish teaching at present.
You state “Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as well as Father.” If it is stating it would not really be stating anything as Jesus is subject to the Father and so the Spirit of God would be subject to God through Jesus. Jesus thus serves as God’s tool to gift his attribute of righteousness to those who seek him while still being separated from his mankind by their sins. That attribute will then reconcile them to God. I only know of John 14:16 that states God will send the Spirit in Jesus’ name.
The “Holy Spirit intercedes for believers to God the Father” is an aspect of the New Covenant and is only seen through prophecy, which can be hard to understand, in the Old Testament. I believe it requires a topic to itself.
You state “Holy Spirit takes the role of Jesus after his departure”. I wonder “why you have problem with the Holy Spirit serving as a proxy?” A proxy can be referred to as the one it represents, such as when an angel is called God. Such is done when Jesus states that he and the Father will be in believers and believers will be in them. God’s Spirit of righteousness is what is in the believers and in both Jesus and God thus uniting all, John 17:21.
I am unsure why you state that the New Testament makes the case the Spirit of God has its own will. Could you please enlighten me?
When does Jesus take the roll of God as far as divinity in the New Testament?
Jesus’ spirit does not function in the same role as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God it called the Spirit of Christ because it is the Spirit Jesus lives by and God passes through him to those that believe in The Anointed. In other words, believers derive the Spirit from Jesus though God is still the source.
Jesus does not abide in the believer, rather the Spirit of God serving as a proxy for both Jesus and God abides in the believer.
Where in the New Testament, does and writer state to pray to the Anointed for personal salvation? Jesus specifically states for believers to ask God in his name.
Jesus is Lord, aka king, as David also is lord; but with more authority and a larger jurisdiction. God is his God, just as he declares.
The believers are also a part of the unity, not trinity, with God, Jesus, and the Spirit. The Unity is not God.
Hi Kerwin,Your mind serves “a function” of you and is therefore YOU!
The “HolySpirit” is God! (Acts 5:4 / John 4:24 / Luke 1:35)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgShimmer,
It is my understanding that the peacemakers make peace between God and man. That is the ultimate peace God desires and Jesus did it both with his teachings and with his death and resurrection. We can do it by sharing the truth of gospel with others.
It could also be those who make peace between themselves and God as all people who make peace with God are called Sons of God.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2010,22:03) Adam, I do not understand all those points from scripture. Could you include the scriptures that you believe support your conclusion for each point?
I believe that the idea that the Holy Spirit is a separate person from God is caused by assuming that since it has characteristics of a person it must be separate and self willed. The Rabbinic Jews do not agree with that assumption.
The closest I have heard to scripture stating the Spirit of God is God is that the Lord Is the Spirit in 2 Corinthians 3:17. The Rabbinic Jews believe it is an attribute of God but not a separate person. The idea expressed by 2 Corinthians does not support the idea the Spirit is a separate person from God. On the other hand Galatians 5:16 states “walk by the spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh” thus showing that the Spirit is an attribute of God, i.e. his righteousness. It is also God’s active force as shown by the fact it produced a miracle within the womb of Mary but I cannot confirm that such a point is a Jewish teaching at present.
You state “Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as well as Father.” If it is stating it would not really be stating anything as Jesus is subject to the Father and so the Spirit of God would be subject to God through Jesus. Jesus thus serves as God’s tool to gift his attribute of righteousness to those who seek him while still being separated from his mankind by their sins. That attribute will then reconcile them to God. I only know of John 14:16 that states God will send the Spirit in Jesus’ name.
The “Holy Spirit intercedes for believers to God the Father” is an aspect of the New Covenant and is only seen through prophecy, which can be hard to understand, in the Old Testament. I believe it requires a topic to itself.
You state “Holy Spirit takes the role of Jesus after his departure”. I wonder “why you have problem with the Holy Spirit serving as a proxy?” A proxy can be referred to as the one it represents, such as when an angel is called God. Such is done when Jesus states that he and the Father will be in believers and believers will be in them. God’s Spirit of righteousness is what is in the believers and in both Jesus and God thus uniting all, John 17:21.
I am unsure why you state that the New Testament makes the case the Spirit of God has its own will. Could you please enlighten me?
When does Jesus take the roll of God as far as divinity in the New Testament?
Jesus’ spirit does not function in the same role as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God it called the Spirit of Christ because it is the Spirit Jesus lives by and God passes through him to those that believe in The Anointed. In other words, believers derive the Spirit from Jesus though God is still the source.
Jesus does not abide in the believer, rather the Spirit of God serving as a proxy for both Jesus and God abides in the believer.
Where in the New Testament, does and writer state to pray to the Anointed for personal salvation? Jesus specifically states for believers to ask God in his name.
Jesus is Lord, aka king, as David also is lord; but with more authority and a larger jurisdiction. God is his God, just as he declares.
The believers are also a part of the unity, not trinity, with God, Jesus, and the Spirit. The Unity is not God.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Thanks for your great post above. In fact I too believed the way you explained the Holy Spirit from N.T. But I now find some problem with such belief as I quoted in my earlier post. You wanted scriptural proof for my observations on the Holy Spirit. You can see I have already given scriptural proofs in my post to Sis Kathi. However once again I quote here for you ready reference.1. Holy Spirit is a separate person from God as well from Jesus supposed Messiah. Verses: John 14:16, 26; 1 Cori 12:11; Romans 8:26-27; Eph. 4:30; Acts 13:2; Acts 20:28; Mark 3:29; Rev 22.17
2. Holy Spirit is God like Father and Son. Verses: Acts 5:3-4; 1 Cor.6:19;
3. Holy Spirit is subordinate to Son as well as Father. Verses: John 14.26; John 16.7; John.16:13; John.15:26;
4. Holy Spirit intercedes for believers to God the Father. Verses: Rom.8:27
5. Holy Spirit takes the role of Jesus after his departure. Verses: John 14.26; John 14.26;
6. Holy Spirit has his own will like the other two Godly persons. Verses: 1 Cor.12:11
There are many other proofs that the Holy Spirit is a separate person. But at the same time he is same as God the Father and Son Jesus in functions and abilities.
You asked me about Jesus' role in divinity: Here are some of such verses John 1:1,14;8:58; 10:33-34; 20:28; Col 2:9; Phil 2:5-8; Heb 1:8; Matt 28:9; Heb 1:6; Titus 2:13; 1 John 5:20
Prayers directed to Jesus: Verses Acts 7:59; 1 Cori 1:1-2; Rom 10:13-14; 2 Cori 12:8; John 14: 13, 14
Jesus is involved in forgiveness of sins which leads to salvation: Verses Lk 24:47; Acts 2:37-38; Acts 13:38; Rom 4:7-8; 1 John 2:12; Mark 2:5-12
Jesus' role in doxology sharing with God: verses 2 Corinthians 4:15, Revelation 5:13; Hebrews 13:15 and most of salutations and benedictions in Paul's Epistles contain this doxology.
Jesus' role in believer's salvation: verses Hebrews 5:9; John 6:47, 53-54; John 17:3; 1 Tim 1:15; John 3:16; Acts 4:12
Hi brother Kerwin Jewish Messiah never meant for such divine role in the whole of Hebrew scriptures. Don't you think there is problem with our N.T?
Peace to you
AdamQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 06 2010,09:24) Shimmer, It is my understanding that the peacemakers make peace between God and man. That is the ultimate peace God desires and Jesus did it both with his teachings and with his death and resurrection. We can do it by sharing the truth of gospel with others.
It could also be those who make peace between themselves and God as all people who make peace with God are called Sons of God.
Hi Kerwin.That is intersting, I like what you were shown. Peace between God and Man. Through the Son. And that has happened.
And peace between people also, I believe.
I remember watcing on TV the invasion of Gaza. Seeing children cry etc. If I could have joined a peace protest I would have. In Gaza people including Catholic Priests used their position to appeal to the world to stop what was happening. They helped them, took care of them, all from the goodness of their hearts (you could feel their upset and frustration). These are peacemakers too I believe.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 07 2010,15:45) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 06 2010,09:24) Shimmer, It is my understanding that the peacemakers make peace between God and man. That is the ultimate peace God desires and Jesus did it both with his teachings and with his death and resurrection. We can do it by sharing the truth of gospel with others.
It could also be those who make peace between themselves and God as all people who make peace with God are called Sons of God.
Hi Kerwin.That is intersting, I like what you were shown. Peace between God and Man. Through the Son. And that has happened.
And peace between people also, I believe.
I remember watcing on TV the invasion of Gaza. Seeing children cry etc. If I could have joined a peace protest I would have. In Gaza people including Catholic Priests used their position to appeal to the world to stop what was happening. They helped them, took care of them, all from the goodness of their hearts (you could feel their upset and frustration). These are peacemakers too I believe.
shimmerwhat ever happen in the world happen by God s will for a reason,
but we all of us should be very careful how we react to those things.wen we seen those things.
Pierre
Shimmer,
Jesus tells us that he is not going to bring peace but rather the sword and the reason for that is not all men will accept the word of God. Though those that live by the spirit will be at peace with God and strive to live peacefully with all men the unbelievers will not do the same. This is why there will be wars and rumors of wars. I cannot even say that war is bad since sometimes there are righteous reasons to go to war.
I hesitate to interfere in some ways such as the situation between Palestine and Israel as it is linked to prophecy and may be necessary to complete it. This has the potential of placing me as proposed to God. Today much of Judea is under the Palestine Authority. It may end up that the Palestinians are genetically Jews and thus the two state solution could end up being Israel, aka Samaria, and Judah. We will see.
Sometimes violence does accomplish the goals of righteousness just like a surgeon’s scalpel can cure ills even as it harms the body.
Adam,
I fail to understand why you think John 14:26 infer the Spirit of God is subordinate to Jesus since it is God that sends it. It is sent in Jesus’ name, which can mean authority, but since God sends it he still is the ultimate authority. It is my understanding the Holy Spirit is appointed by God to be Jesus’ representative with his disciples. It is my understanding that this is congruent to a King decided to choose a Lord’s negotiator, answerable to him, to negotiate a treaty between that Lord and another Lord. I am basing this understanding mostly on John 14:25 and John 16:13. I do not see how you get that from John 16:7 either. I do see how you can from John 15:26 if taken in isolation but John 14:5 already made the point that God sends the Holy Spirit. In my previous answer to your point about the Spirit being subordinate to Jesus I pointed out that Jesus only does what God commands and so when Jesus acts it is God acting through him.
The Spirit is God’s own spirit of righteousness that teaches and trains believers in righteousness and in so doing intercedes between them and God according to God’s will for he desires a sinless people.
You inadvertently gave the address John 14:26 twice in support of the idea the Holy Spirit takes on the role of Jesus. It does become the teacher and trainer of Jesus’ disciples as he was but it is not him nor does it pretend to be him. What Jesus means is that its attribute of righteousness is his just as it is God’s.
You are accidently taking 1 Corinthians 12:11 in isolation without considering Jesus’ description of the Holy Spirit in John 16:13 that states the Spirit will desire only what God desires for after all he is God’s righteous desires.
I agree that Scripture does treat the Spirit as it has aspects of a person as well as being an attribute of God. I do not see the Spirit having a will.
Remember that when Jesus acts it is God acting through him and so if he forgives the sins of a person it is only because God forgives that person.
I do not see a problem with the N.T. I do see a problem with the hearts of men which are full of lies and deceptions even to the point of deceiving themselves. These unlearned men, controlled by their evil desire, can and do interpret scriptures in many corrupt ways. It is only those that are truly led by God who will interpret Scripture correctly.
Ed J,
I do not hold that the spirit is the mind of God but it is another part of him. My arm is part of me but not me. It is more of a possession of mine. On the other hand if my arm performs a task then I perform that task because it is my will that causes my arm to act. In the same way God causes his spirit to act.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2010,21:23) Ed J, I do not hold that the spirit is the mind of God but it is another part of him. My arm is part of me but not me. It is more of a possession of mine. On the other hand if my arm performs a task then I perform that task because it is my will that causes my arm to act. In the same way God causes his spirit to act.
Hi Kerwin,Your view and my view of God are very similar,
more often then not the only difference is in the
words used to convey our ideas of God to others!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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