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Quote Hi RR,
The author of your article denies and insults the Holy Spirit. He reduces God and increases the importance of men's minds. How vain and foolish.I have yet to see you produce a scriptural study that supports your point of view. (You have not addressed David's study nor this one, except to show your contempt for their points of view.) Until you produce a thorough scriptural study of your own, you probably shouldn't be so quick to deride the work of others.
Hi OS,
I have read the article and expressed my opinion.
Have you?
If so what is your view?
If not what point is there in such a post?Quote (OneSpirit @ Oct. 10 2005,21:46) Quote Hi RR,
The author of your article denies and insults the Holy Spirit. He reduces God and increases the importance of men's minds. How vain and foolish.I have yet to see you produce a scriptural study that supports your point of view. (You have not addressed David's study nor this one, except to show your contempt for their points of view.) Until you produce a thorough scriptural study of your own, you probably shouldn't be so quick to deride the work of others.
Hi OneSpirit,
I do not need to hide behind the opinions of erudite theologians. They have their walk and each of us has ours. They will not be there to explain our decisions to follow them and not Jesus when we meet him.
Their rationalisations and justifications have led to the deception of many and we are wise to sift their crafty words too.Nick,
I produced (some of) my scriptural study of the Holy Spirit in the “Gift of tongues” thread. The only thing that I have seen you do is take verses out of context in support of your view. I am not asking you to hide behind scholars. I am asking you to show us your study that shows your point of view to be scriptural. Be a Berean and rightfully divide scripture so that the rest of us can see how our views don't add up to the Word.
(In other words, I am not interested in your personal opinion, or personal derision of someone else's work, unless you have Truth to back it up.)
Hi One Spirit,
So what are your views on the article offered by RamblingRose?
Is spirit the same as mind?
Can study of scripture by education alone give us the Spirit and thus the mind of Christ?
Where is this shown in scripture?
Certainly we are told to abide in the word but receiving the Spirit is not by this means according to scripture. The Spirit is received by the laying on of hands or prayer.
Is the Spirit just a source of information and not power?Were the apostles and prophets just well educated men?
When we are born again of the Spirit is it just the same as renewing of our minds by scripture study?I can see how popular such a theory would be with all denominations who can then claim to have the Spirit through bible study.
These things demean the revelation of the holy Spirit as a powerful and lifechanging transforming force of God. It demeans the gospel to mere bible study .Such lies are evil.
Nick,
Since you won't go look it up, I will quote here my partial study:
Quote Nick wrote: Quote Hi One Spirit,
What does “having the Spirit” mean to you in your experience?Your question misses the point. “My experience” is not scripture. “My experience” could be nothing more than self-deception. What is more important is what scripture says about what “having the Spirit” means. If “my experience” lines up with that, then I may have something to share.
Nick quoted:
Quote Jn 20.22
“He breathed on them and said ' Receive the Holy Spirit..”I am glad that you picked out this verse. It is a good starting point for understanding the Spirit. The word used for “spirit” in this verse literally means “breath”, (in both the Hebrew and Greek).
Quote Lexicon Results for ruwach (Strong's 07307)
Hebrew for 07307
Pronunciation Guide
ruwach {roo'-akh}TWOT Reference Root Word
TWOT – 2131a from 07306
Part of Speech
n f
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) wind, breath, mind, spirita) breath
b) wind
c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
f) spirit
g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
So the act of “breathing” on the disciples is highly symbolic in regards to receiving the Spirit. (See Job 33:4 for more on this aspect of the Spirit.) Now look at Job 32:8.
Quote Job 32:
8 But it is the spirit in a man,
the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.Here you see a strong association with breath of the Almighty in man and the mind of a man. Paul makes this same association between the Spirit of YHWH and the Mind of YHWH. Compare Isaiah 40:13 to Romans 11:34:
Quote Isaiah 40:13
Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD,
Or as His counselor has taught Him?Romans 11:34
“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”At its very core, having the Spirit of YHWH is about having the Mind of YHWH taking over our own. Take a quick look at what people who are filled with the Spirit do:
Quote Acts 2:
4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.Skipping past the miracle to the meat…
Quote
Acts 2:
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.”
…Acts 2:
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.The most important part of being filled with the Spirit is the message that was brought by Peter through a direct connection to the Mind of YHWH.
More examples:
Quote Acts 4:
8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! …”Again, Peter is filled with the Spirit before delivering an important message.
Quote Acts 4:
31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.Same model here as well.
Of course, there are other aspects to the Spirit, but the most important part of “having the Spirit” is having the Truth from the Mind of YHWH.
That is why I ask you to show us your doctrine from scripture Nick, because if your teaching does not derive from scripture, then you do not “have the Spirit”, no matter how many times you have “spoken in tongues”.
Again, all I see in your post are your opinions. Be a Berean, Nick. Show us some Truth.
Hi One Spirit,
I have replied to this post before.
We, like Adam, are of the breath of the Almighty having life in our bodies. The life force given of God is our spirit.
“The body without the spirit is dead”Jas 3.26The bold words of Peter were certainly the result of the work of the Spirit but so was his raising of the girl from the dead. The Spirit of God is of power.
Are we born with the Spirit of God then? No. Our spirit is of the breath of God.The Spirit can agree with our own spirit[Rom 8.16] so they are separate.
We must be born again of the Spirit of God. We must be filled with the Spirit, which becomes a fountain within us unto eternal life. We do not gain the Spirit by bible study do we?
Hi,
Acts 2.43
“And everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.”
Acts 5.12
'And at the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were taking place among the people”Doctors and nurses are relatively useless to heal. They really usually bring comfort and help as God does his works of mercy to the world through them. God gave his gifts of the Spirit freely to bring much more than medicine to the early church. Nothing has changed. Only the Spirit can truly see the causes and bring complete healing to God's people if that is the will of God. God has not become impotent or any less willing to bless his sons and daughters by the work of that Spirit. We need still those ministries and God would release them if men followed the instructions of Jesus Christ.
Hi,
1Cor 12 4f
” Now there are varieties of gifts but the same Spirit….But to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of Knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the ONE Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles , and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues. BUT THE ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT WORKS ALL THESE THINGS, distributing to each individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members and all the members of the body, though they are many are one body, so also in Christ. For BY ONE SPIRIT we were all baptised into one body, whether jews aor greeks , whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of ONE SPIRIT”God has given each of us in Christ to drink of the ONE Spirit who was in Christ. The Spirit is of God and is not divided by residing in the body of Christ.
Hi,
In the NASB and most versions the Spirit of God is highlighted with a capital “S”to differentiate it from other spirits, human or otherwise. It also shows respect to our Creator God. I notice, david, that you always write it as 'holy spirit' . Is that how it is written in the JW bible?I wasn't aware I was always doing this. You're right, I do refer to it that way a lot. If we're referring to God's holy spirit, then I guess I generally use the words “holy spirit.” I just checked and I found “holy spirit” 106 times in my Bible and “spirit” 823 times (which includes the 106)
Sorry, I didn't read your original question very well. No, it's not capatilized in the Bible I use.
I've never thought about it before, but I would guess the reasons are these:
God's holy spirit is not a person, but rather something he possesses, and thus capitilzation isn't neccessary, as when used for names. No more than I would capitilize God's wisdom, justice, power, or love. Certainly, God's love is great. “God is love.” That is quite the statement. Yet, no need to capitilize “love,” with reference to God.
Further, to capitilize “holy spirit” or Jehovah's “spirit” serves to create misunderstanding, since names or people are capitilized.david
Quote (david @ Oct. 23 2005,12:48) Sorry, I didn't read your original question very well. No, it's not capatilized in the Bible I use.
I've never thought about it before, but I would guess the reasons are these:
God's holy spirit is not a person, but rather something he possesses, and thus capitilzation isn't neccessary, as when used for names. No more than I would capitilize God's wisdom, justice, power, or love. Certainly, God's love is great. “God is love.” That is quite the statement. Yet, no need to capitilize “love,” with reference to God.
Further, to capitilize “holy spirit” or Jehovah's “spirit” serves to create misunderstanding, since names or people are capitilized.david
Hi david,
So it is in reaction to trinity theology. Interesting. I too do not capitalize pronouns representing Jesus Christ as he is not God Himself but the Son of God and trinitarian translation bias has led to this custom in my view.I would say, though, that the Holy Spirit is of God but is more than something God “possesses”. God is spirit. The Spirit is of God.
The Spirit expresses all the power and nature of God Himself, the “fullness of Deity” as Collosians puts it. Power is something God possesses but the Holy Spirit expresses more than God's power.
Acts 10.38
” You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him”Yet Jesus said to pray to “our Father in heaven”. So the Holy Spirit was the manifestation of God's presence with Jesus.
Jesus was filled with the Spirit and spoke as if God Himself was with him.John points out how this expression of God Himself teaches and comforts as well as equips us for our roles in Christ. To blaspheme the Spirit is unforgiveable as kernch has pointed out.
While the Spirit is not ever separate from God as another person it seems evident to me that it is right to show equal respect to the Spirit as to an expression of God Himself.
Hi david,
Scripture speaks of the Spirit as an expression of God Himself, as equivalent to speaking of God;
Ps 139.7f
“Where can I go from your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend to to heaven You are there.
If I make my bed in sheol, behold You are there.
If I take the wings of the dawn,
if I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, even there your hand will lead me and your right hand will lay hold of me”
As also surely Acts 17.27“It is an expression of God Himself,” as you say, but not God himself.
When speaking of God Himself, our Bible does capitilize the H in Himself for example, although I admit, I sometimes forget to do that myself when writing.
As it is not a person, but His spirit, the need for capitilization is lacking perhaps.
Could it be that many Bibles capitilize “holy spirit” as something carried over from the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit of the trinity?
I don't see this as a big thing. I do understand what you're saying. I'm just telling you why I believe my Bible doesn't do the same. I'm not even sure.dave.
Hi david,
Jesus also said of the Spirit in Lk 11.20
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you”God's 'finger' is as deserving of respect as God Himself surely?
The Bible speaks of God as having eyes, ears, hands, arms, fingers, feet, and a heart.—Genesis 8:21; Exodus 3:20; 31:18; Job 40:9; Psalm 18:9; 34:15.
Which of these does your Bible capitalize?
2 CORINTHIANS 3:17
“Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom.”
It should be noted that where the word “spirit” applies directly to Jehovah himself, it is capitalized, as above, but where it refers to something that is Jehovah's, it is not.Below, is another differentiation:
JOHN 4:24
“God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.””
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