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Hi C,
God's Spirit is never separate from God. The Spirit does not have separate will and life as Christ does but is the life of God. The Spirit then is not a person. The Spirit is God's means of communicating with us and us with Him. The Spirit teaches from God and the Word of God reminding us of the teachings of Christ. The Spirit brings power and knowledge and comfort and grace from God to us, and by prayer in the Spirit we too can pray for our needs, even those we do not know but the Spirit knows. God is in us by His Spirit even as he was in Christ.So angels – or spirits sent to do His will would not be considered Holy? I understand God is Spirit – but was Gabriel not Holy? Michael? Uriel?
Nick are you saying that the Holy Spirit is God and it is God's way to communicate with us. Then if that is the case and the Holy Spirit is infact God – then why is the Holy Spirit considered part of the Trinity doctrine. If I am correct the Trinity doctrine claims there are 3 persons to the God head. I do agree that it is the Holy Spirit that teaches us and communicates our needs on such a level that we are often even unaware of. I believe that it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that puts you in communication with God. Peace, Diana
Hi,
What is “holy”?
Angel means “messenger”. They are spiritual beings but not called spirits.THE Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.Quote (Dianalevich @ July 12 2005,00:45) Nick are you saying that the Holy Spirit is God and it is God's way to communicate with us. Then if that is the case and the Holy Spirit is infact God – then why is the Holy Spirit considered part of the Trinity doctrine. If I am correct the Trinity doctrine claims there are 3 persons to the God head. I do agree that it is the Holy Spirit that teaches us and communicates our needs on such a level that we are often even unaware of. I believe that it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that puts you in communication with God. Peace, Diana
Hi D,
The Holy Spirit is OF GOD. God lives in heaven but works through His Spirit throughout His creation. The Spirit reveals the nature and power of God in whatever cleansed vessels are available.Trinitarians get confused thinking the Spirit is a separate person because the Spirit does God's work on earth while God Himself is in heaven so they think they must have separate personalities.
But the Spirit has no personal name because the Spirit is of God. The Son is blasphemed and that can be forgiven but the Spirit cannot be blasphemed, again because the Spirit is of God.
The Spirit passes to us God's power, teaching from the Word and prophecy and knowledge from God but does not personally own or create such material.
The Spirit also relates to God our needs helping us worship God. The Spirit serves God in us and us in God so we are one in Him in Christ.
That is what I have gleaned but feel free to add or correct me.
I would like to ask how the Holy Spirit can be God in light of John 16…
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
What ever the Holy Spirit may be – it ONLY speaks what it hears – it is not independently sharing – but it is a distinct messenger.
Somehow – that doesn't seem to be God to me – or His Great Spirit itself – I could be wrong – but I find it troubling to think of it any other way.
Hi C,
Not really. If the Spirit communicates between God and Jesus, and likewise us, and is always in communion with God why is that confusing? The Spirit relays information and communication and power. Certainly there is no indication in that verse that the Spirit thinks or acts independantly of God is there?ps
Joel 2.28
“..I will pour out MY SPIRIT on all mankind..”
Rom 8.9
“…if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you..”
2Cor 3.3″..written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God..”“the Lord is the Spirit”
Hi Nick – Thanks for the information. Let me ask you, when you say the Holy Spirit is of God do you mean that the Holy Spirit is God or a part of God. I prefer to think of the Holy Spirit as a means of communication (prayer) between God and man, which of course is through God's Son, Yeshua. GBU, Diana
Quote (Dianalevich @ July 13 2005,01:24) Hi Nick – Thanks for the information. Let me ask you, when you say the Holy Spirit is of God do you mean that the Holy Spirit is God or a part of God. I prefer to think of the Holy Spirit as a means of communication (prayer) between God and man, which of course is through God's Son, Yeshua. GBU, Diana
Hi D,
I don't think God has parts as such. He is Spirit and spirit is like liquid and can be poured without, in this case diminishing the source. Or like a flame lights another lamp without diminishing the original.
Some versions translate the Joel 2 verse as “a portion of My Spirit”though.
Genesis 1.2
“..and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters”
describes a connectedness and a outreaching aspect to God as Spirit to me.Hi,allow me to share my thoughts on this topic…
The Holy Spirit is simply what he is… God's Spirit. This simple truth can be best understood if one approaches the scriptures without the preconcieved belief that God is a trinity and there are 3 distinct personal dieties in one Godhead. But even if the Bible speaks about God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, by inventing or coining a term like trinity to represent or explain the nature of God is already an idolotrous act. If there is realy God the FAther, God the Son and God the Holy Soirit, why call it trinity? Why not call it as it is, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, after all God forbids us to make graven images of Him ( as well as mental images i believed, for that is what Trinity is, a mental representation of the One True God!). You see, the doctrine of trinity is an unnecessary doctrine, though it attempts to explain God but in reality it mystify God. Dropping the term trinity in my spiritual vocabulary was the first step for me to understand the simple truth about God that is plainly written in the Bible. That Jesus is the Son of the living God (The one True God) and Jesus call this One True God, His Father. and The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. I hope this will help enlighten the trinitarians, it did to me.Certainly there is no indication in that verse that the Spirit thinks or acts independantly of God is there?
NIck – that is exactly my point! The Spirit can ONLY speak what He hears! Doesn't this make Him sub-servant to God – or the Lord – depending on who is telling Him what to say?
Quote (Christofer @ July 14 2005,03:31) Certainly there is no indication in that verse that the Spirit thinks or acts independantly of God is there? NIck – that is exactly my point! The Spirit can ONLY speak what He hears! Doesn't this make Him sub-servant to God – or the Lord – depending on who is telling Him what to say?
Hi c,
The Spirit transmits from heaven to earth as the Spirit of God.But why do you take note of any verse like this if scripture is untrustworthy, as you imply in another forum?
Nick – you seem to be fixated on this idea that if I do not believe all scripture I can't believe any of it… how ironic that you are now speaking like the Trinitarians – “if you don't agree with them – you don't believe in God” – right? And yes – it is certainly the same thing – because what you are doing is judging me on your view of the Bible… you use this statement (but why do you take note of any verse like this if scripture is untrustworthy) to avoid answering a very simple and direct question…
The Spirit can ONLY speak what He hears! Doesn't this make Him sub-servant to God – or the Lord – depending on who is telling Him what to say?
Also – the Spirit lives within us – I believe the term is called the 'indwelling of the Holy Spirit”… such as the Apostles repeatedly stated – I don't want to sound condescending – but have you read 1 Peter 1:11; Galatians 4:6; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, Romans 8:9, 11; 1 Corinthians 3:16? Maybe I am misunderstanding your use of the word 'transmits', but when did the Holy Spirit become a transmitter? Do you mean this – like as in the Holy Spirit is communicating with us on behalf of God?
I tend to understand him as the Psalmist said:
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
The person in question is our God. How he sends his spirit and presence to us I cannot say, but he does it without exposing us to his Consuming Fire.
Quote (Christofer @ July 14 2005,09:23) Nick – you seem to be fixated on this idea that if I do not believe all scripture I can't believe any of it… how ironic that you are now speaking like the Trinitarians – “if you don't agree with them – you don't believe in God” – right? And yes – it is certainly the same thing – because what you are doing is judging me on your view of the Bible… you use this statement (but why do you take note of any verse like this if scripture is untrustworthy) to avoid answering a very simple and direct question… The Spirit can ONLY speak what He hears! Doesn't this make Him sub-servant to God – or the Lord – depending on who is telling Him what to say?
Also – the Spirit lives within us – I believe the term is called the 'indwelling of the Holy Spirit”… such as the Apostles repeatedly stated – I don't want to sound condescending – but have you read 1 Peter 1:11; Galatians 4:6; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, Romans 8:9, 11; 1 Corinthians 3:16? Maybe I am misunderstanding your use of the word 'transmits', but when did the Holy Spirit become a transmitter? Do you mean this – like as in the Holy Spirit is communicating with us on behalf of God?
Hi,
No I am challenging you to say what you do believe. When you read a scripture is it truth to you or not? If you read 2 Peter or 2Tim does it not impact on you the same because of the doubts you have about their origins? Is it lies to you and not to be trusted at all?Is the Old Testament truth to you or not?
Is there any part of the New Testament that you can guarantee as accurate for us? If not then why quote any to us at all as if you cannot trust them in what way does any scripture add anything to your arguments?
The Holy Spirit does not only pass to us power and knowledge and intercede for us too-those is parts of the role of the Spirit-but the Spirit lives in us joining us with Christ and his Father in Spirit.
Actually – in the letters I doubt the authorship to, I can find many things that don't seem to line up with the truth Jesus professed… in fact – I can find contradictions between those letters and the older authentic letters… and that was what led me to research more about the books in question.
I follow Jesus first – then the Apostles – so if an Epistle isn't writing as He preached – I start looking at it harder. Sometimes, it is a matter of fact that the writer is simply human – and not fully aware of all things Jesus taught – (Consider that Jesus said – call no one Father and don't allow ourselves to be called teacher (Mt 23)- yet Paul did both of these things) other times – it is the writer wasn't an Apostle at all – but someone further down the line of the early church.
Is there any part of the New Testament that you can guarantee as accurate for us?
I can't certify any book of the Bible as accurate – the Holy Spirit does that.
Hi c, Then you need the Spirit to show you the Spirit in all these writings. You are in darkness my friend and cannot feed on the Word of God. That is sad.
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