The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[JustAskin]

Kerwin, yes, in time. Pray earnestly for Gods help and guidance.

The answer is in the Scriptures not in human logic – that was your mistake.

WJ chewed you up and spat you out – Bad luck, old boy!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2010,19:17)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 21 2010,06:02) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 19 2010,18:28) You are correct that Deuteronomy 6:4 proves there is only one God.   We all know that if you have one of an item you do not have 3 of that same item.  For example you cannot have 1 apple at the same time you have 3 apples.  You either have 1 apple or 3 apples.  The Trinitarians attempt to prove that you can have 1 apple at the same time you have 3 apples and when you point out that is illogical they attribute the illogic as a mystery of God. Kerwin Your logic is very weak because you are comparing “Apples to Oranges”.   You are comparing that which is natural to that which is Spiritual! When you can explain how Jesus can dwell in the Father at the same time the Father dwells in him, and yet the scriptures tell us there is “One Spirit”, then you may be onto something!   WJ ED, I have been real busy and had not been able to give the time I need to your post but will soon!   You are asking a question that is perhaps beyond the limits of my understanding.   I will say what I know and that is there is only one spirit of righteousness that is in all of the unity and which binds us together.  I believe Jesus also phrased the same idea by stating that the believers would be one with him  and the Father and he and the Father would be one with them.   If this was a math problem then I would have the problem and the answer but not the work it took to get from one to the other.  I regret that in this way I have limited knowledge to address your question. In time perhaps God will  choose to teach me.

Kerwin

Thank you for your honesty. I wish more here could admit that to fully comprehend an infinite God and his nature is beyond our finite minds.

Here is something to think about.

1+1+1=3 But yet the number 3 is “1” number!

The entire universe reveals the “plurality of unity”.

Try to imagine just one thing in the universe that is not plural!

The creation reveals the Glory of God!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 20 2010,19:28)

Kerwin, yes, in time. Pray earnestly for Gods help and guidance. The answer is in the Scriptures not in human logic – that was your mistake. WJ chewed you up and spat you out – Bad luck, old boy!

Just

Were you one of those little brats in school that stood on the sidelines and provoked others to fight?

Kerwin and I are having dialogue and their was no ill attempt to chew anyone up!

Grow up!

WJ

[JustAskin]

Kerwin was playing logic with God and quite rightly got burned.
My sympathy to him was wrapped along with a stern warning:
Specifically: “The Jew seek a sign and the Greek seek [him by logic]” and you know how the rest goes.

Basically, thr heart that is not truly seeking God will never of it's oen, find him.

Kerwin, my friend, beware what you really seek?

[JustAskin]

wJ,
You really mean that you were happily leadig Kerwin astray.

'Jesus is the Holy Spirit'? Where does that come from?

[terraricca]

WJ

When you can explain how Jesus can dwell in the Father at the same time the Father dwells in him, and yet the scriptures tell us there is “One Spirit”, then you are to something.

this is your comment to KERWIN ,

Well let see Wat the scriptures tell us;first Christ is the first born of creation of God the father so he is created from the father because nobody was there beside the only true God,so we can say Christ comes out of the father but not equal to the father ,since God is spirit so also would be Christ but in less powerful way,this is well documented in the scriptures,
in this way they both share the same spirit or power but not in equal term of power and what ever we do not understand.

I believe this should answer your question,but you will not agree with it i guess do you ?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 20 2010,19:51)

wJ, You really mean that you were happily leadig Kerwin astray. 'Jesus is the Holy Spirit'? Where does that come from?

JA

Did I say Jesus was the Holy Spirit?

Why do you missrepresent me?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 20 2010,20:07)

WJ When you can explain how Jesus can dwell in the Father at the same time the Father dwells in him, and yet the scriptures tell us there is “One Spirit”, then you are to something. this is your comment to KERWIN , Well let see Wat the scriptures tell us;first Christ is the first born of  creation of God the father so he is created from the father because nobody was there beside the only true God,so we can say Christ comes out of the father but not equal to the father ,since God is spirit so also would be Christ but in less powerful way,this is well documented in the scriptures, in this way they both share the same spirit or power but not in equal term of power and what ever we do not understand. I believe this should answer your question,but you will not agree with it i guess do you  ?

T

Its amazing how you actually believe that you answered my question.

At least Kerwin admits that he does not know with his finite mind all about an infinite God!

WJ

[terraricca]

WJ
just respond and let see if you realy have the holy spirit in you,
and i do not believe that you would accept my answer i am not that naive.but what i do know God waching us.

[942767]

Hi:

Let me see if I can help shed some light on the following scripture:

Jesus said:

Quote

Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

The Father is in us(all born again believers) by His Holy Spirit as our helper, and Jesus is in the Father by the Word of God which came from God, and the Word of God is in all those who born again and are obeying the doctrine of Christ, or the Word of God.

Jesus said:

Quote

Jhn 17:17(Jesus praying to the Father said) Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

The Spirit of Him that raised Jesus from the dead is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our Father, who dwells in us as our helper to sanctify us by His Word. (Jesus praying to the Father prayed asking our Father to sanctify us through the truth, he says thy Word is truth)

Quote

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

The doctrine of Christ is the Word of God, and if we as born again believe is obeying the doctrine of Christ, the Father dwells within us by His Spirit and by His Word, and so it is one Spirit according to God's purpose which is the salvation of God's children. The name Jesus means “Jehovah is salvation”.

Quote

2Jo 1:9 Whoever transgresses [fn] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

And so, do you understand now?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

hi 94
I do not believe that some thing of a thing is in us .
what i believe what Christ was talking about is more simple than that,God has a purpose a plan to be execute ,for this he calls on Christ the first born of creation,he explain his plan to Christ instantly Christ voluntary to do the plan,now in this way they are (the father and the son)totally of one spirit doing the same plan ,Christ by doing the plan God the father by supporting his son,
now part of the plan involves men like the apostles Jesus tell them about that great plan his father has and invited them to participate in the plan ,we know that they have accepted this ,so now they are part of the plan of God ,and they have become one with God ,and Christ working in the same spirit (plan)that is participate in the fulfilment of Gos plan,
but Christ as said he has more disciples to come to him ,that is us we that believe in the message of the one he send,
now we are invited to be part of the Plan of God and by doing so we will become one with God ,Jesus and the apostles.

so you see here the spirit means working for the will of God the father,in a joint venture with the Son of God,and it is God power who help us to do the work.

that is what i believe.

[Ed J]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2010,13:15)

Hi: The Spirit of Him that raised Jesus from the dead is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our Father, who dwells in us as our helper to sanctify us by His Word. (Jesus praying to the Father prayed asking our Father to sanctify us through the truth, he says thy Word is truth) Quote Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead                will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Love in Christ, Marty

Very Good Marty,

HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ!

    Read the “Title” of this “Thread” everybody!
Marty, “you” illustrated the type of PROOF people need to see in your quote!
Truth is Truth, regardless who says it!…matching all three verses I LISTED!

John4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Gal.1:1 Paul, an apostle…by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead😉
Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The only way to try to debunk this “Truth” is distractions,
because everybody can clearly see the “Truth” illustrated here! Good job Marty, well done!
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distraction of spirit.

                 
                    “Father:The Word”

Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(HolySpirit) of the oath(Isaiah 7:14), which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.

God bless
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[942767]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2010,14:39)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2010,13:15) Hi: The Spirit of Him that raised Jesus from the dead is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our Father, who dwells in us as our helper to sanctify us by His Word. (Jesus praying to the Father prayed asking our Father to sanctify us through the truth, he says thy Word is truth) Quote Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead                will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Love in Christ, Marty Very Good Marty, HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ!     Read the “Title” of this “Thread” everybody! Marty, “you” illustrated the type of PROOF people need to see in your quote! Truth is Truth, regardless who says it!…matching all three verses I LISTED! John4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Gal.1:1 Paul, an apostle…by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead😉 Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. The only way to try to debunk this “Truth” is distractions, because everybody can clearly see the “Truth” illustrated here! Good job Marty, well done! The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distraction of spirit.                                       “Father:The Word” Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word(HolySpirit) of the oath(Isaiah 7:14), which was since the law, maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore. God bless Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed:

Thanks for the kind words and the encouragement. I just do not believe that it is that difficult to understand.

But I am not following you when you in the following quote:

Quote

b]”Father:The Word”[/b] Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word(HolySpirit) of the oath(Isaiah 7:14), which was since the law, maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.

The Word of the Oath was God's Word spoken to Jesus saying to him that he was to be a priest after the order of Melchizadek forever.

Quote

Hbr 7:20 And inasmuch as [He was] not [made priest] without an oath Hbr 7:21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “The LORD has sworn And will not relent, 'You [are] a priest forever [fn] According to the order of Melchizedek' [fn] “

Love in Christ,
Marty

[kerwin]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 21 2010,06:44)

Kerwin was playing logic with God and quite rightly got burned. My sympathy to him was wrapped along with a stern warning: Specifically: “The  Jew seek a sign and the Greek seek [him by logic]” and you know how the rest goes. Basically, thr heart that is not truly seeking God will never of it's oen, find him. Kerwin, my friend, beware what you really seek?

What denotes worldly logic is logic based on the values of this world. On the other hand what denotes godly logic is logic based on the values of God. It is not logic that fails me when investigating the mysteries of God but rather it is my own limits, possibly my sinful nature. I say this because God is a logical and rational when I myself am lacking in both at times.

Still, I am but a student that has much still to learn.

[Ed J]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 21 2010,15:15)

The Word of the Oath was God's Word spoken to Jesus saying to him that he was to be a priest after the order of Melchizadek forever. Quote Hbr 7:20 And inasmuch as [He was] not [made priest] without an oath Hbr 7:21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: “The LORD has sworn And will not relent, 'You [are] a priest forever [fn] According to the order of Melchizedek' [fn] “ Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty,

HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ!

How can you know what I speak of when you change the FOCUS?
The Focus is: The Word(Farter:The Word) made the GodSon=74(Jesus=74)    
I “only” use numbers(and colors) to “ADD things up” for others to truly begin to understand!
“HolySpirit”=151 is “The Father” of “Jesus Christ”=151; HolySpirit is GOD!

                  “Father:The Word”=151

Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(HolySpirit) of the oath(Isaiah 7:14), which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.
Luke 5:11 Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word“ of God.
Jesus was born EXACTLY 1/2 HolySpirit(GOD)! Forth Post(Page 340)!
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=3390

Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise:
When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph,
before they came together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.

Matt.1:2020 But while he thought on these things, behold,
the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying,
Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit.

Eph.4:6 ONE God and Father OF ALL, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
John 10:35-36 If he(HolySpirit) called them gods, unto whom the word of God(HolySpirit) came,
and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest

God bless
Ed J
http://www,holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Ed J,

I am trouble understanding what you mean when you state “the Holy Spirit is God the Father of Jesus Christ”.   Could you elaborate?

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 17 2010,03:24)

Ed I have looked at your answer and didn't respond to it for it was a non answer. You dance all around the scripture with all kinds of confusing mess (Numbers, 1/2 God yadayada) with no scriptural support for your words but only a lot of inference and assumptions. IMO. 1) Does it take 500 words to explain how the Father can be the one that Jesus sent and calls “another Counselor” that he prays to the Father for? Do simple words mean anything to you guys or do you have to confuse everything to explain 1 simple text? The smoke screens that are created by you guys are amazing. Maybe I am missing something, but I do not see your answer in your post. 2) Could you please condense it down and show me specifically how the Father can be the “Another Counselor” that the Father and Jesus sent from the Father? Look close at Jesus words again… And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “another Counselor” to be with you forever– John 14:16 Maybe this scripture will clarify it… But when the Comforter is come, whom “I WILL SEND” unto you “FROM THE FATHER”, even the Spirit of truth, “WHICH PROCEEDETH FROM THE FATHER”, he shall testify of me: John 15:26 Jesus is very specific that the “Comforter” is “another” and that he and the Father will SEND him from the Father! “WHICH PROCEEDETH FROM THE FATHER” How much clearer can it get? You plaster a full page of your confusing apologetics and state you answered the question. You have answered nothing! Try again. I still think it would be better if we go in the debates thread specifically so our posts do not get lost in the Frey! Kind of like a private one on one conversation without interruption. What ya say, eh? WJ

Hi WJ,

Only “one question” per Post, try to follow this rule.
This is my second try of WJ's question, I hope it is better for you WJ.

1) Jesus was the counselor you were referring to, and HolySpirit (The) another comforter sent much like Jesus was sent.

2) Very simple: I will use Jesus as a comparison for you. Jesus was sent by “God The Father” and called “God with us”(Immanuel).

Hebrews 1:8-9 But unto the Son(Jesus) he(HolySpirit) saith, Thy throne, O God(The Father),
is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou(Jesus Christ) hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God(HolySpirit),
even thy God(HolySpirit), hath anointed thee(Jesus Christ) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the HolySpirit (after his baptism by John the baptiser) and with power:
who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God(HolySpirit) was with him(Jesus).

Jesus retuns back to “God The Father”(HolySpirit) in Heaven after the removal of satan
(successfully removed) from “The Godhead” at the crucifixion of Jesus, after Jesus' death. (Isaiah 14:19)
Once in heaven, Jesus then sends the “HolySpirit” in “God The Fathers” behalf (Isaiah 64:5-6) and
“God The Father”=117 sends “Jesus Christ”(now in Spirit Form) in behalf of HolySpirit along with HolySpirit(Heb.9:28)
back to Earth to dwell in ALL Christian Believers starting on the day of “Pentecost”=117!

This “Bible Truth”=117 can be verrified using two Bible verses…

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father(HolySpirit) will love him, and we(HolySpirit + Jesus Christ: Jesus “Second Coming”)
will come unto him(All Believers starting on Pentecost who look for Jesus without sin), and make our abode with him.
Eph.4:6 ONE God and Father OF ALL(“HolySpirit“), who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distraction of spirit.

Since you (WJ) have probably forgotten my original question since our agreement, here it is again for you…
Explain how this (NEXT) verse meshes with your logic that the “HolySpirit” cannot possibly (according to you) be Jesus' Father? (My question to you WJ)

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but “THE FATHER” that dwelleth in me, HE doeth the works.
Remember “only” one question Per Post.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene @ Jan. 20 2010,18:19)

ED  J………To tell you the truth i don't really follow your numbering system, I try to just go by what is written in the scriptures, and it says there (ARE) SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD,  I believe SPIRITS are (INTELLECTS) and they are expressed by WORDS, and we can recieve them into our minds , but the SPIRIT (intellect) to recognize Truth is Just (ONE) aspect of His Seven Spirits . WE are capable of trying the words or Spirits (expressed intellects)we hear and know if what we hear is true or not by that Spirit of TRUTH in US, it is a given power to us.  This Spirit of truth is also called the Comforter, because thats what truth does it comforts us and gives us a soundness, stabilizing us, it is the (earnest) of GOD'S Spirits.   The Seven Spirits of GOD are compared to eyes of GOD, and the four Creatures Surrounding the throne of GOD have three sets of wings full of Eyes (SPIRITS) of GOD in them. These four creatures heads are the OX , Man, Eagle, Lion . In the wilderness the standard for Ephraim was the OX, the standard for Judah was the Lion, the standard for Ruben was a Man, the standard for Dan was the Eagle  And each of these Four had another two tribes with them, That is why in the throne you see them with three sets of wings in each of the four quadrants around the throne  , but the point is here that the eyes are the Spirits or intellects of GOD in there wings and this is what lifts them up. I believe they represent the 144, 000 of the twelve tribes of Israel called out from the earth and go with Jesus everywhere he goes, They are Spirit lead servants of GOD and the Lamb. IMO  Once we start to understand what SPIRIT really is, many things start making sense and many scriptures fall into place . Spirits are (INTELLECTS) and all creation exists by them They are powerful and animate our bodies. without them we would be dead and could do nothing. IMO

Hi Gene,

You probably are not aware of one of satan's most successful tricks; I have learned over time how to avoid this trap!
I will explain it, for you to finally understand this is 'the problem' you have in communicating “Truth” to others.

First: you determine you want to help others understand “Bible Truth”, this Part is from God.
Next: satan comes into your mind telling you “The Easiest” way to tell this “truth”; except it is really a trick.
When you choose to go with it(FREE WILL), this is what continues to happen to you time and time again…
A. People don't understand the “Bible Truth” you wish them to. And…
B. People then wish to correct you, because they see what you have just told them as 'false truth'!
(Because satan is working both ends!) Does this NOT seem to be the reoccurring pattern; Gene?
This is “ALL” due to “The Easiest” wording that was delivered to you by satan.

The way this 'problem' can be avoided is to use a technique I have learned, which you say does a better Job.
This is “only” because I have fell into this trap MANY MANY times myself!
But I have illustrated time and time again that I'm a pattern guy.
This is why I have discovered this pattern. And this is how to avoid 'the Problem'…

Instead of focusing in on how to best understand the information you wish to deliver.
Don't worry if people will understand, it takes time for them to understand even simple concepts.
My focus is “ONLY” that they DON”T misunderstand! Using this technique may take some practice.
But I guarantee it WILL help you to communicate better! With a lot less 'your wrong' STUFF!
I believe it will ALSO be helpful(to everyone here) for you to ask more about God, “The SevenFold GOD!

Your Brother in Christ!
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 21 2010,17:46)

Ed J, I am trouble understanding what you mean when you state “the Holy Spirit is God the Father of Jesus Christ”.   Could you elaborate?

Hi Kerwin,

Reread the starting Post. If you still have trouble than ask a more specific question; OK.
But please read my first post first, it should help you a lot.
You should also reread Page 3 Post 4, then you will be
in a better position to get what you want me to address, addressed.

Your question is so broad that I probably will not answer the part that is confusing to you.
It is satan the devil, that brings all the confusion(Babylon) and TROUBLE! (Isaiah 14:4-27 / Rev.17:1-8 / Rev.13:1)

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. satan(the devil), the not so (great 'i am') IS TROUBLE TO ALL OF US!

[terraricca]

edJ

Ed J,

I am trouble understanding what you mean when you state “the Holy Spirit is God the Father of Jesus Christ”. Could you elaborate?

well this is a simple question to me,unless you are confused in your own views ,that could explain why you do not want to answer to a strait question,

because in my view the father is not the Holy spirit ,but the Holy spirit comes from him ,this is not the same.
and if you thing i am confused because i do not understand or agree with you ,don't even dream that ,i help people to become disciples of Christ and free them of Satan false teachings by looking deep in the scriptures for salvation.

there is no confusion were there is truth;

[Author]

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