The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[Cubes]

I don't mean to say that this act of feet washing is to replace actual water baptism, but for those that are already Christ's and baptized, could it be a periodic symbol thereof that let's us say to one another in the Body of Christ: you are part of me, you are clean and I forgive you/you are forgiven?

What does it mean and how are we to practice it?

[trettep]

Exo 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute forever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

That had nothing to do with the Water Baptism because those who are having their feet cleaned were already clean and only had need of their feet to be cleaned. Let me give you a bit more clues about this though. Remember that there are examples to guide us. We shouldn't need to interpret even though we can spiritual discern things when we are revealed more insight into the workings of the Spirit. But let this be a guide:

Exo 30:21 So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute forever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.

That is concerning the Levitical Priesthood and to be kept forever.

Hopefully, some will soon realize that we are not to worship God in the flesh but in the Spirit.

Let this be a guide – once we have the Holy Spirit we are to worship in the Spirit – flesh shouldn't be required to worship in the Spirit that includes the need for your physical body to be submerged into physical water. Your flesh has no need in the Kingdom of God. Its the pure water that is needed to cleanse your consience.

Paul

[Cubes]

I will post in another thread. I feel I've diverted this thread. Sorry, folks. See you in the salvation thread, trettep.

[NickHassan]

Hi cubes,
Lk 1.35
“The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God”

If the Holy Spirit was a separate person from the Father then there would be a clamouring for the Spirit to be the parent of Jesus surely? This scripture clearly shows the Holy Spirit is an expression of the Father doing the work of the Father on earth otherwise this verse is incomprehensible.

[NickHassan]

psMatt 1.18
” ..she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit”
1.20
” ..for the child conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit”

[Cubes]

Exactly, Nick.

I am seeing it more clearly now too…

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

I perceive that this has to do with God's spirit in Christ vs. the Devil's spirit.

[Cubes]

If one were to believe that God is a trinity, then one has to consider that based on Luke 1:31f, Jesus should call TWO persons “Father” or at least call the Holy Spirit “father.”

But he doesn't do any of that. He calls the Father whose spirit it is, Father. Which is entirely logical and what the scriptures say.

[NickHassan]

amen cubes.
Scripture is so simple but men introduce all the confusion with the help of the father of lies.

[trettep]

Yes the Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit. I'm glad you understand this. Understanding that is very important in my opinion. Now you need to ask yourselves what is a spirit to begin with.

Also, regarding the Holy Spirit. Some believe that its another person in the Godhead but that isn't true as you are already aware or discovering. The Holy Spirit is void from every salutation of the Epistles.

Paul

[NickHassan]

Hi trettep,
” It is the Spirit who gives life” Jn 6.63
” For the Spirit searches all things even the depths of God, for who among men knows the thought sof a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God” 1 Cor 2 10f

[NickHassan]

ps Rom 6.3f
” ..all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus have been baptised into his death?
Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ Jesus was raised from the dead through the Glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life, for if we have BECOME UNITED WITH HIM IN THE LIKENESS TO HIS DEATH certainly we shall be also in the likeness to his resurrection”

[trettep]

Yes, a spirit is already present in man and its compared to God's Spirit in how it knows thoughts. Excellent! Many don't comprehend this but its crucial to learning the Gospel. For our spirit knows our thoughts. But God's spirit knows His thoughts. But there are other spirits talked about in the Bible can you name some? By doing so you will either learn more or strenghen your knowledge of what a spirit is.

Paul

[NickHassan]

Hi Trettep,
Of course the apostles thought Jesus was a disembodied spirit, once when walking on the water, and when he entered the room unexpectedly, and not via the door, after the resurrection.

[stroshow]

Just curious, i know u guys probably dont want to get into this again… but how you define essence?

Someone with mind or power does not speak, teach, send,
call, forbid, etc. all these are attributes of a
person, all of them are descriptive of the Holy
Spirit?

[Cubes]

Quote (stroshow @ April 23 2005,00:36)

Someone  with mind or power does not speak, teach, send, call, forbid, etc. all these are attributes of a person, all of them are descriptive of the Holy Spirit?

Correct, Stroshow: Undoubtedly, the holy spirits has attributes that are God's, to put it quite frankly. And is it surprising?

Another example besides what I posted earlier regarding Luke 1:31f, is Psalm 51.

Have mercy upon me, O God,
According to Your lovingkindness;
According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
Blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
And cleanse me from my sin.

3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight–
That You may be found just *when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.

5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.

7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me hear joy and gladness,
That the bones You have broken may rejoice.
9 Hide Your face from my sins,
And blot out all my iniquities.

10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation,
And uphold me by Your generous Spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners shall be converted to You.

14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God,
The God of my salvation,
And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.
15 O Lord, open my lips,
And my mouth shall show forth Your praise.
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart–
These, O God, You will not despise.

18 Do good in Your good pleasure to Zion;
Build the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then You shall be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness,
With burnt offering and whole burnt offering;
Then they shall offer bulls on Your altar.

David was praying to God…
In verses 10 and 11, he tells God “Do not take YOUR holy spirit from me.”

If the holy spirit was a THIRD, viable person in a TRINITY then should David have addressed him directly instead of made his request TO the Father in the manner that Christ did/does.

On the other hand, if the Holy Spirit belongs to God or is God's, then God caused his presence to be with David. David asked God not to cast him away from his presence, and not to take his holy spirit from him. And it makes sense altogether.

If a single human cell is designed so cleverly to orchestrate its duties, how much more God's holy spirit?

[stroshow]

Regarding the involvement of the Holy Spirit the verse
seems clear that the conception was a result of the
Holy Spirits involvement. In what way the verse does
not say. But somehow, unexplained Jesus by the Holy
Spirit was able to enter into Mary's womb and be born
as a man.

Matthew 1:18,Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this
wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph,
before they came together, she was found with child
“of the Holy Ghost”.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things,
behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a
dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to
take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is
conceived in her is “of the Holy Ghost”.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of
the Highest shall overshadow thee: “therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall
be called the Son of God.”

Centainly there was no physical sexual act taking
place. And I'm sure we both agree Jesus had already
existed prior to him entering into Mary's womb.

John 1:1, 2, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the
Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was
in the beginning with God…And the Word was made
flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full
of grace and truth.

It seems Jesus is called the Son of God because of the
manner in which the conception took place. Luke 1:35
“…The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power
of the Highest shall overshadow thee: “therefore also
that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be
called the Son of God.”

Two things to notice, Jesus is called the Son of God
because, 1) The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee AND
2) the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee.

This seems a distinction between the “power of the
Highest”, and the “Holy Ghost”

Also as in Acts 5:3-4, An act attributed to the Holy
Spirit is EQUATED with God. In Acts 5:3 Lying is said
to have been done TO the Holy Spirit, in verse 4 that
is equated with lying to God. Here the Holy Spirits
involment in the virgin birth is EQUATED with and is
given as reason for why Jesus is called the Son of
God.

As a Christian I am an adopted son of God. 1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed
upon us, that we should be called the sons of God:
therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew
him not.

I however am fully human.

Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God in that he is of
the SAME substance as God, being God. (Again John
1:1,2,14) In the incarnation he took on the additional
nature of man and is therefore both the Son of God and
Son of Man.

Certainly the Father and Son relationship is not
biological in the same way as you or I might have a
son. The Father did not “procreate” to produce Jesus,
who we both agree existed prior to the incarnation.

The scripture does not refer to the Holy Spirit as the
Father. So the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit, HE is
not the Father.

The Father is the Father. The Holy Spirit is the Holy
Sprit, and Jesus is the Son. All three distinct
persons. As demonstarted here at the incarnation,
later at Jesus' baptism, and again as we are told to
baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, and of
the Son and of the Holy Spirit. And as demonstrated in
the many verses I sent you, at your request, of other
verses where the three were mentioned together

[NickHassan]

Hi ss,
God is spirit.
The Spirit is the Spirit OF GOD.
God lives in heaven and sends HIS Spirit to earth to infill and empower Christ and then us.
God remains in heaven.

It is possible to speak against Jesus and be forgiven but not the Spirit of God. Why do you think?

[Cubes]

Dear Stroshow and fellow Trinitarians:

Here's another one for you on who is the giver of the Holy Spirit. Please note that the Father is specifically named:

Ephesians 1:17
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your *understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

[NickHassan]

Quite so cubes,
Acts 2.17
” 'And it shall be in the last days' God says',that I will pour out MY SPIRIT on all mankind”

[Cubes]

Yea, Nick.

Pretty straightforward narrative and consistent with the rest of scripture.

Exd 28:3 And thou shalt speak unto all [that are] wise hearted, whom I HAVE FILLED with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister UNTO ME in the priest's office.

Exd 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Deu 34:9 And Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him: and the children of Israel hearkened unto him, and did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Exd 1:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

31 Cor 12:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities,but it is the same God who works all in all.

**Deut 34:9 above. Moses laid hands on Joshua and he was full of the spirit of Wisdom…If Joshua could impart the holy spirit of God and if we can, how much more so can the Son of God not send the Spirit of his Father to those who are called by the Father?

[Author]

Posts