- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by
.
- Posts
Hey Nick,
–>So the Spirit is another Son?
No, the Spirit is THE SON, the only begotten of God. He was begotten first spiritually and then physically. Mind you I dont know HOW god begat the son spiritually but I have my thoughts on the matter. But if we look at Col 1, then proverbs 8:27, and then Gen 1, we see that God created all THROUGH his son and the only one at the start with God creating was the Spirit. How else do you read that?
–>So God no longer has a spirit?
Yes, it is his son.
–>Why is the Spirit still called the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER?
Because Jesus is the begotten spirit of the father that was brought forth as in Proverbs 8
The father is technically invisable so to me visible to his spirtual creation he would have to exist as SPIRIT by way of a spiritually begotten son. And to appear to us he would need to manisfest as some physical essence.
Tell us of Jl 2.
–>When God pours out His Spirit that Spirit becomes a son do you think??God is pouring out is Spirit/son upon us. That spirit brings all flesh into one body. Jesus himself was filled with this spirit. We are filled with this spirit. We must be to be of one body with god.
–>So how is God at work in us[phil2]?
–>How does God live in us[phil3]
–>How is God close to all men[Acts 17]?God is in us because he is in his SON. So if he is in us then he is close to us and works in us. We are his sanctuary and he comes and sits between our cherub…our ears maybe lol?
Nick, I am curious about how you view those 3 verse I gave. I see no other way to view them since only the HS was at creation wit god. If you have another view I am open but alas I dont see one?
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
So you can be made one in the Spirit but not one in God as that Spirit you say is now a son?
But Jesus is the Son of God.Gene,
>GOD is not Separate from his SPIRIT,
I am not saying he is.
>remember Jesus said GOD (IS) SPIRIT.
This requires some debate because angels are also called spirits and they are created. So we must define that at some point clearly.
>When Jesus said the FATHER was (IN) HIM he was meaning >He GOD was TRULY IN HIM, how by HIS SPIRIT which is >HIM.
God in infinity has no form or substance and cannot be seen etc. The spirit of God/father WAS in Jesus. I am saying that spirit is the SON. We need to better define the HS, which was my goal at the outset.
Gene as to spirits being thoughts that is not true. I have seen spirits before – standing right in front of me. It was not thought. I have seen them move things. And I have cast them out of people. Spirits are most definitely not just thoughts. When you have seen the things I have from the deliverance ministry, I can tell ya that demons/spirits are real.
>He is PURE SPIRIT.
Agree but HIS spirit and the created spirits are different.
jeff
Nick,
Jesus is the son of god. And so are you if he dwells in you. The same spirit that dwells in jesus is in us. That spirit is the christ/the HS of god. He makes us allsons of god but the christ is THE son of god
Hi Jeff,
So Christ means anointed.
He was anointed with the Spirit of God at the Jordan becoming a spiritual son of God.That anointing united him with God so that he and the Father are one because the Father is never separate from His Spirit. We follow him.
Quote
Gene as to spirits being thoughts that is not true. I have seen spirits before – standing right in front of me.–Jeff.
What if you only “thought” you did?
I'm just joking. Spirits are not thoughts. Gene is by himself on that one.
Hey Nick,
Yes christ (messiah) means the annointed one. The pre incarnate christ was the HS (the set apart spirit or annointed one).
He fills us and we are one with the Father.
Nick, before we go on, will you address my question?
Col1: Christ made all things
Proverbs8: someone was with God at creation (we can even use John 1)
Gen 1: The ONLY one with God is the HS. There is no mention of ANYONE else.Since god made the world THROUGH christ then the HS there MUST have been christ. Please address this question for me.
Thanks so much
Jeffdavid,
when I first started seeing them I thought I was losing my mind! But god has taught me what it all is and is still teaching me. When you see people get a demon cast out of them and they go from terminally ill to healed, you know they are real and they come to steal, kill, and destroy!
We can get loopy if we start getting into calling all thought. On one level ALL IS THOUGHT – you, I, demons, angels, nature.
I am of the opinion that all creation exists IN the fathers mind. That is why we can never see him. Also, since NOTHING existed in the beginning there was no where to create. So technically all is thought – gods thought. But practically speaking, demons are real!
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
So Jesus was the Holy Spirit before he was born??That is a new one.
So how come he had to be anointed with the Holy Spirit later?[Acts 10.38}Nick,
let me try this again.
Col 1 says CHRIST created all things. (And God says he created all through christ.)
Proverbs 8 says that Wisdom was with God in the beginning.
Gen 1 says that God and the Spirit created all things.
John 1 says the Word was with god in the beginning.
If we only see 2 beings at the creation and we know that God created through christ, then the spirit that god was creating through in gen MUST be christ/the word.
I will not claim to have unravelled the whole mystery but one thing is clear and that is at the beginning there was GOD creating through the Spirit. If the Spirit is not Christ, then we have a problem as scripture says christ created.
It is this same spirit of christ that we are all baptised into. It is who dwelt with te apostles and returned to them to be IN them not just with them.
Jeff
oh yes….and jesus, the man had to be baptised, as he himself said, to recieve of the same spirit as us. Jesus was a man, albeit a special one. When he was annointed with the christ spirit he became the SON in the flesh, as we will be.
Hi Jeff,
The Son of God was anointed with the Holy Spirit[acts 10]
He received the Spirit of sonship.[Rom8]But he did not receive a Son did he?
Quote Gen 1 says that God and the Spirit created all things. –Jeff
Does Gen 1 say “God and THE SPIRIT” or does it say “God's spirit”? (Gen 1:1)
Psalm 33:6 says: “By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit of his mouth all their army.”
Like a powerful breath, God’s spirit can be sent forth to exert power even though there is no bodily contact with that which is acted upon. (Compare Ex 15:8, 10.) Where a human craftsman would use the force of his hands and fingers to produce things, God uses his spirit. Hence that spirit is also spoken of as God’s “hand” or “fingers.”—Compare Ps 8:3; 19:1; Mt 12:28 with Lu 11:20.
Looking at Ps 33:6 above, the spirit that he used to Create the universe seems to be something he possesses.
More than a hundred times the holy spirit is referred to as “the spirit of Jehovah,” “God’s spirit,” “my spirit” and “spirit of Jesus Christ.”
All such possessive uses of the holy spirit further argue that it is an instrumentality rather than a separate and distinct person.—Judg. 3:10; Matt. 3:16; Acts 2:18; Phil. 1:19; Ps 51:11; Joel 2:28,29
Quote If we only see 2 beings at the creation and we know that God created through christ, then the spirit that god was creating through in gen MUST be christ/the word. The only problem is, the two “beings” we see are not Jehovah and “the spirit.” (The spirit, or God's holy spirit is something God possesses. See above comments.)
But the Bible does say: “Let US make man in our image.”
Who was God talking to? His son, whom he used as the instrument of creation.
David,
In genesis it says the “spirit of God”. One could easily say the Christ of God. Makes sense. Now, what the makeup of said spirit is exactly is debatable. The problem is the word SPIRIT. God is spirit but so are angels. There is no way that God as spirit is anything like what he created. He is above that!
But when it says that God is spirit it may mean that he occupies a spiritual body so that his spiritual creation can see him. Now does that mean that some spirit had to be obedient and be annointed with god? I dont know. Proverbs is interesting as one verse says he was “consecrated” from the beginning. Did god just create a spitit body and occupy it? Again I dont know.
But what is clear is that in genesis we see only 2 things. God and the Spirit OF god. I would say we see GOD and the Christ of God. If this isnt the case then we have no mention of the son having anything to do with creation. That seems unlikely to me.
Jeff
David,
“The only problem is, the two “beings” we see are not Jehovah and “the spirit.””
I dont follow you? Are you saying because he is called Elohim? I am assuming this elohim is God/YHVH. We could debate that I am sure. But the spirit is clear enough. Its gods spirit.
It also fits John 1 perfectly. In fact john even PARALLELS his gospel opening to match Genesis 1. We might say, In the beginning was the SPIRIT and the SPIRIT was with GOD (Elohim) and the SPIRIT was Divine. It is the exact representation in both books.
Jeff
Quote In genesis it says the “spirit of God”. One could easily say the Christ of God. No. “spirit” and “christ” are completely different words, in both English and Hebrew. So, “one could easily say” that, as you just easily did, but it would not really be correct. They have different very meanings.
Makes sense?
Quote Now, what the makeup of said spirit is exactly is debatable. The problem is the word SPIRIT. God is spirit but so are angels. There is no way that God as spirit is anything like what he created. He is above that! Agreed, so the word “spirit” does cover a wide variety of things. In the Bible the Heb. word ru′ach (spirit) can mean breath, wind,the vital force in living creatures, one’s spirit, spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit.
All of them have some things in common–can't be seen yet exert force.
Quote But what is clear is that in genesis we see only 2 things. God and the Spirit OF god.
Right, my point before, is that it is the spirit of God, as you say. It is “of” God. We never see the spirit of God doing it's own thing. It is “of” God.
Much like we never see my arm bowling while I am sitting on the couch. My arm accomplishes my will. It is the arm “of” me. It's mine and does what I want it to. It's the force I use to accomplish what I want. It never goes out on it's own.Quote I would say we see GOD and the Christ of God.
Sure, there IS God, and the Christ (anointed one) of God, Jesus.Jesus WAS anointed with God's holy spirit. Jesus is not that spirit.
Quote If this isnt the case then we have no mention of the son having anything to do with creation. That seems unlikely to me.
Several scriptures point to the Father USING the son to create everything, much like an architect would use a master builder to accomplish HIS purposes.Quote David, “The only problem is, the two “beings” we see are not Jehovah and “the spirit.””
I dont follow you? Are you saying because he is called Elohim?
No, I'm saying God's holy spirit, his “finger” isn't a being, it's the force he uses to exert his will. The other being God was talking to when he said “let US make man…” was his Son.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
