The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi LU

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

Hi WJ, So, can a woman be a comforter or not?  Can a woman be a helper or not?  Both comforter and helper are masculine nouns but I do believe that a woman can be both of these things and would not be referred to as “he”.

Nice spin. Yeshua says the “Comforter”, a Masculine Noun is the Holy Spirit, proving that your statement that “Spirit” is a neuter noun therefore pronouns should be interpreted “it” instead of “he” or “him”, is a straw. The point being that the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit is more than an “it” or a “thing” as you call it. Male or female makes no difference because the Spirit has the attributes of God and is not simply an impersonal force or extension of God.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. The nouns: wisdom, revelation and knowledge are all feminine nouns.  If a man has a spirit of wisdom in him that does not mean he has a woman within him?

Exactly the point, it doesn’t matter if it is “masculine” or “feminine”. Jesus didn’t say he was going to give us the Spirit of “parakletos” did he?

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

Here is the definition again… “Parakletos” is “Masculine noun” that means;

1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid

a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate

b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor

1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins

c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant

1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom

In fact John even uses the word in describing Yeshua here…

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1

However it seems you would say that Yeshua simply plays the role of the (parakletos) and is in fact not the (parakletos).

And so you keep on insisting that your definition of who the Spirit is, is greater than the translators and even Yeshua’s own words.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

From Romans 2:19-20 …and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth… the nouns: guide, corrector and teacher are all masculine nouns.  Does that mean if a woman is a teacher then we should refer to her as a “he”?  When a class sees their teacher coming down the hall, do they say “she” is coming down the hall if the teacher is a woman? Or do they say “he” is coming down the hall because teacher is a masculine noun even though the teacher is a woman?  Obviously they would say “she is coming down the hall”.  Do you get my point.

Again this is a diversion from Jesus own words.

And would they say that an “it” or a “thing” is coming down the Hall? Kids today might.

Get the point?  

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

The “comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is not a role of the Comforter.  Therefore the gender of the noun “spirit” would dictate, not the gender of the role that it plays.

These are your own words. Yeshua didn’t say that the “Comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit, he said…”But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost…,

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

So, if a thing (a neuter noun) plays the role of a comforter, we should still refer to the thing as with neuter pronouns.

Ok. You keep on insisting your point and abandoning the translations. Let’s try your logic here.

God (masculine noun) is a Spirit. Now you would say that the role of the Spirit is God, therefore since Spirit is a neuter noun the pronouns “it’ or “thing” should be used so it should read…

God is a Spirit: and they that worship “it” must worship “it” in spirit and in truth. John 4:24

If God is Spirit and we worship him then we are worshipping Spirit right?

Why, because the Spirit is God.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

I agree with you in that this thing, the Holy Spirit, is within God.

I never made such a statement, for the Holy Spirit is never referred to as a thing. These are your words.

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31)

I have no problem with that. The Holy Spirit is the “inner man” so to speak but not the outer man. The Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father.  I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is the Father, I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is a seperate person distinct from the Father, I am saying that the Holy Spirit is a part of the Father.  It is the spirit part of the person of the Father, not the mind of the Father, and not the body of the Father. Till next time… LU

Yes I realize that you are saying the Holy Spirit is not a separate person lining up beautifully with the JWs in that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or e
xtension of the Father. However now you say “the Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father”, yet scriptures say there is only “One Spirit” not part of God who is Spirit.

Until next time is right.

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ
You say
“However now you say “the Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father”, yet scriptures say there is only “One Spirit” not part of God who is Spirit. “

The Spirit of God is as the finger of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Christ was not that Spirit but was filled with that Spirit.
Lk4
1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

In him the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 13 2008,07:31)

Hi LU, Certainly one of the clearest teachings given by Jesus is that God IS in heaven.

Heaven is a realm that is beyond the natural and what we can see.

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

God is bigger than some remote part of the Universe. Why because he is Spirit and he fills all things. In fact Yeshua upholds all things and by him all things consist and are held together.

If God sits in Heaven and some amorphous force or power fills all things then that force or power would be greater than he for it would be “Omnipresent” yet God would not.

You cannot seperate the “One Spirit” from God who is Spirit.

even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Eph 2:5,6

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Eph 6:12

How can this be? Where is Yeshua? He is at the right hand of the Father. Yet we are seated with him. Because God lives in us. Yeshua said the Kindom of God was at hand and is now within us.

Therefore the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is within us.

So it is written.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 13 2008,09:41)

Hi WJ You say “However now you say “the Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father”, yet scriptures say there is only “One Spirit” not part of God who is Spirit. “ The Spirit of God is as the finger of God.

NH

Yet you imply the Father sits in some geographical place while his Spirit can be everywhere.

Is Gods Spirit greater than he? Is God who is Spirit greater than himself?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Final conclusion is flawed.
The Spirit in us is ONE.
God and His Son.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 13 2008,10:10)

Hi WJ, Final conclusion is flawed. The Spirit in us is ONE. God and His Son.

NH

But I thought you said no person lives in you?  

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The Spirit proceeds from God.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

In that Spirit we can commune with God.

1Cor2
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God is in us uniting us in Christ with Him in the Spirit.

Jn 17
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Unity in the ONE Spirit
Eph2
18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2008,17:34)

Hi LU Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) Hi WJ, So, can a woman be a comforter or not?  Can a woman be a helper or not?  Both comforter and helper are masculine nouns but I do believe that a woman can be both of these things and would not be referred to as “he”. Nice spin. Yeshua says the “Comforter”, a Masculine Noun is the Holy Spirit, proving that your statement that “Spirit” is a neuter noun therefore pronouns should be interpreted “it” instead of “he” or “him”, is a straw. The point being that the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit is more than an “it” or a “thing” as you call it. Male or female makes no difference because the Spirit has the attributes of God and is not simply an impersonal force or extension of God. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. The nouns: wisdom, revelation and knowledge are all feminine nouns.  If a man has a spirit of wisdom in him that does not mean he has a woman within him?   Exactly the point, it doesn’t matter if it is “masculine” or “feminine”. Jesus didn’t say he was going to give us the Spirit of “parakletos” did he? But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26 Here is the definition again… “Parakletos” is “Masculine noun” that means; 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor 1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant 1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom In fact John even uses the word in describing Yeshua here… My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1 However it seems you would say that Yeshua simply plays the role of the (parakletos) and is in fact not the (parakletos). And so you keep on insisting that your definition of who the Spirit is, is greater than the translators and even Yeshua’s own words. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) From Romans 2:19-20 …and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth… the nouns: guide, corrector and teacher are all masculine nouns.  Does that mean if a woman is a teacher then we should refer to her as a “he”?  When a class sees their teacher coming down the hall, do they say “she” is coming down the hall if the teacher is a woman? Or do they say “he” is coming down the hall because teacher is a masculine noun even though the teacher is a woman?  Obviously they would say “she is coming down the hall”.  Do you get my point. Again this is a diversion from Jesus own words. And would they say that an “it” or a “thing” is coming down the Hall? Kids today might. Get the point?   Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) The “comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is not a role of the Comforter.  Therefore the gender of the noun “spirit” would dictate, not the gender of the role that it plays. These are your own words. Yeshua didn’t say that the “Comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit, he said…”But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost…, Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) So, if a thing (a neuter noun) plays the role of a comforter, we should still refer to the thing as with neuter pronouns. Ok. You keep on insisting your point and abandoning the translations. Let’s try you logic here. God (masculine noun) is a Spirit. Now you would say that the role of the Spirit is God, therefore since Spirit is a neuter noun the pronouns “it’ or “thing” should be used so it should read… God is a Spirit: and they that worship “it” must worship “it” in spirit and in truth. John 4:24 If God is Spirit and we worship him then we are worshipping Spirit right? Why, because the Spirit is God. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) I agree with you in that this thing, the Holy Spirit, is within God. I never made such a statement, for the Holy Spirit is never referred to as a thing. These are your words. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) I have no problem with that. The Holy Spirit is the “inner man” so to speak but not the outer man. The Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father.  I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is the Father, I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is a seperate person distinct from the Father, I am saying that the Holy Spirit is a part of the Father.  It is the spirit part of the person of the Father, not the mind of the Father, and not the body of the Father. Till next time… LU Yes I realize that you are saying the Holy Spirit is not a separate person lining up beautifully with the JWs in that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or extension of the Father. However now you say “the Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father”, yet scriptures say there is only “One Spirit” not part of God who is Spirit. Until next time is right. WJ

Hi WJ,
By reading your response, I must not have made myself clear. You have made some inferences that I did not intend. I may hash it out with you later but now, I want to write about “God is Spirit”.

I believe that this refers to having a spirit type of body as opposed to a flesh and blood type of body. I do not think that it means to say that God is the Holy Spirit. In other words, it would not be true to say God is flesh and blood but it would be true to say that God is spirit. The word “spirit” refers to the type of body that God has. He has no flesh and He has no bones. A spirit does not have flesh and bones.

John 4:19-24
4:19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I see 46 that you are a prophet. 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, 47 and you people 48 say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.” 49 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, 50 a time 51 is coming when you will worship 52 the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 4:22 You people 53 worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 54 4:23 But a time 55 is coming – and now is here 56 – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks 57 such people to be 58 his worshipers. 59 4:24 God is spirit, 60 and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); 61 “whenever he 62 comes, he will tell 63 us everything.” 64 4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.”

1Co 15:50
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot * inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable

We will have spirit bodies in the future and we will worship Him in those spirit bodies. The spirit bodies are imperishable.

Luke 24:36+
36While they were telling these things, (AH)He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.”
37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing (AI)a spirit.
38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
39″(AJ)See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; (AK)touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
41While they still (AL)could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “(AM)Have you anything here to eat?”
42They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish;
43and He took it and (AN)ate it before them.

A spirit body does not have flesh and bones.

Later Gater,
LU

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 13 2008,10:09)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 13 2008,09:41) Hi WJ You say “However now you say “the Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father”, yet scriptures say there is only “One Spirit” not part of God who is Spirit. “ The Spirit of God is as the finger of God. NH Yet you imply the Father sits in some geographical place while his Spirit can be everywhere. Is Gods Spirit greater than he? Is God who is Spirit greater than himself?

Hi WJ,

Is heaven the throne of God?
Has God left heaven?

Can your finger see?
If it gets squashed would YOU feel it?

[gollamudi]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 13 2008,10:06)

You cannot seperate the “One Spirit” from God who is Spirit.

Hi brother WJ,
If that statement is rightly quoted by you, I think you should agree with the statement “there is only one God”. As you rightly told you can not separate the “One Spirit” from God who is Spirit then there can be One God only as confirmed by Jesus in Jn 5:44.
Peace to you
Adam

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,17:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2008,17:34) Hi LU Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) Hi WJ, So, can a woman be a comforter or not?  Can a woman be a helper or not?  Both comforter and helper are masculine nouns but I do believe that a woman can be both of these things and would not be referred to as “he”. Nice spin. Yeshua says the “Comforter”, a Masculine Noun is the Holy Spirit, proving that your statement that “Spirit” is a neuter noun therefore pronouns should be interpreted “it” instead of “he” or “him”, is a straw. The point being that the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit is more than an “it” or a “thing” as you call it. Male or female makes no difference because the Spirit has the attributes of God and is not simply an impersonal force or extension of God. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) Eph 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. The nouns: wisdom, revelation and knowledge are all feminine nouns.  If a man has a spirit of wisdom in him that does not mean he has a woman within him?   Exactly the point, it doesn’t matter if it is “masculine” or “feminine”. Jesus didn’t say he was going to give us the Spirit of “parakletos” did he? But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26 Here is the definition again… “Parakletos” is “Masculine noun” that means; 1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor 1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant 1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom In fact John even uses the word in describing Yeshua here… My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1 However it seems you would say that Yeshua simply plays the role of the (parakletos) and is in fact not the (parakletos). And so you keep on insisting that your definition of who the Spirit is, is greater than the translators and even Yeshua’s own words. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) From Romans 2:19-20 …and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth… the nouns: guide, corrector and teacher are all masculine nouns.  Does that mean if a woman is a teacher then we should refer to her as a “he”?  When a class sees their teacher coming down the hall, do they say “she” is coming down the hall if the teacher is a woman? Or do they say “he” is coming down the hall because teacher is a masculine noun even though the teacher is a woman?  Obviously they would say “she is coming down the hall”.  Do you get my point. Again this is a diversion from Jesus own words. And would they say that an “it” or a “thing” is coming down the Hall? Kids today might. Get the point?   Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) The “comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is not a role of the Comforter.  Therefore the gender of the noun “spirit” would dictate, not the gender of the role that it plays. These are your own words. Yeshua didn’t say that the “Comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit, he said…”But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost…, Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) So, if a thing (a neuter noun) plays the role of a comforter, we should still refer to the thing as with neuter pronouns. Ok. You keep on insisting your point and abandoning the translations. Let’s try you logic here. God (masculine noun) is a Spirit. Now you would say that the role of the Spirit is God, therefore since Spirit is a neuter noun the pronouns “it’ or “thing” should be used so it should read… God is a Spirit: and they that worship “it” must worship “it” in spirit and in truth. John 4:24 If God is Spirit and we worship him then we are worshipping Spirit right? Why, because the Spirit is God. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) I agree with you in that this thing, the Holy Spirit, is within God. I never made such a statement, for the Holy Spirit is never referred to as a thing. These are your words. Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,06:31) I have no problem with that. The Holy Spirit is the “inner man” so to speak but not the outer man. The Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father.  I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is the Father, I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is a seperate person distinct from the Father, I am saying that the Holy Spirit is a part of the Father.  It is the spirit part of the person of the Father, not the mind of the Father, and not the body of the Father. Till next time… LU Yes I realize that you are saying the Holy Spirit is not a separate person lining up beautifully with the JWs in that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal force or extension of the Father. However now you say “the Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father”, yet scriptures say there is only “One Spirit” not part of God who is Spirit. Until next time is right. WJ Hi WJ, By reading your response, I must not have made myself clear.  You have made some inferences that I did not intend.  I may hash it out with you later but now, I want to write about “God is Spirit”.   I believe that this refers to having a spirit type of body as opposed to a flesh and blood type of body.  I do not think that it means to say that God is the Holy Spirit.  In other words, it would not be true to say God is flesh and blood but it would be true to say that God is spirit.  The word “spirit” refers to the type of body that God has. He has no flesh and He has no bones. A spirit does not have flesh and bones. John 4:19-24 4:19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I see 46  that you are a prophet. 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, 47  and you people 48  say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.” 49  4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, 50  a time 51  is coming when you will worship 52  the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 4:22 You people 53  worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 54  4:23 But a time 55  is coming – and now is here 56  – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks 57  such people to be 58  his worshipers. 59  4:24 God is spirit, 60  and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); 61  “whenever he 62  comes, he will tell 63  us everything.” 64  4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.” 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot * inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable We will have spirit bodies in the future and we will worship Him in those spirit bodies.  The spirit bodies are imperishable. Luke 24:36+ 36While they were telling these things, (AH)He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing (AI)a spirit. 38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39″(AJ)See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; (AK)touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41While they still (AL)could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “(AM)Have you anything here to eat?” 42They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43and He took it and (AN)ate it before them. A spirit body does not have flesh and bones. Later Gater, LU

Good stuff LU

[Lightenup]

Thanks Nick,
Have a great day!
LU

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 13 2008,20:53)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 13 2008,10:06) You cannot seperate the “One Spirit” from God who is Spirit. Hi brother WJ, If that statement is rightly quoted by you, I think you should agree with the statement “there is only one God”. As you rightly told you can not separate the “One Spirit” from God who is Spirit then there can be One God only as confirmed by Jesus in Jn 5:44. Peace to you Adam

GM

Have you ever heard me say there is more than “One God”.

I believe there is only “One Divine Being” and One Spirit.

Now it is up to others to learn what that means when the scriptures speak of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Talk to the Henotheist here like t8 and LU, they believe in more than One Divine being.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Hi LU

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,17:44)

Hi WJ, By reading your response, I must not have made myself clear.  You have made some inferences that I did not intend.  I may hash it out with you later but now, I want to write about “God is Spirit”.   I believe that this refers to having a spirit type of body as opposed to a flesh and blood type of body.  I do not think that it means to say that God is the Holy Spirit.

I think this is a diversion of what we were talking about, but anyway how do you derive God has a Spirit body from… “God is a Spirit”? John 4:24

Is there a scripture that says God who is Spirit lives in a Spirit Body?

Please explain!

[gollamudi]

That is utter confusion if you say God is having Spirit body.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 14 2008,07:02)

That is utter confusion if you say God is having Spirit body.

GM

I agree. Again this is another example of those who in their quest to understand the Trinitarian view abandon it and end up in more confusion, like a fish out of water or jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

For to reconcile all the scriptures they have to contrive many different views that include a whole lot of inference and reading into the text. IMO.

[gollamudi]

I know WJ, IMO only two ways are possible either you have to stick to your original beliefs of Trinity without any struggle to interpret any scriptures or you have to stick to Monotheism where you believe Only One God there is no one besides Him. There is no in between as I have already told many times. The way so many non-trinitarians in this forum are interpreting the scriptures in haphazard way is causing utter confusion I see every where here.
Though I don't agree with Trinity but I see you interpret many verses similar to me and few others who actually believe in Monotheism. You believe in more than one person in Godhead i.e Father, Son and Holy Spirit but I believe only Father is that one God and Jesus is His son who is in His image and Holy Spirit is the One Spirit with which(whom) we are united with Father and Son. I believe Jesus came into this world on his birth through Mary not that he was existing prior to his birth. He is the God's word that became flesh. He is the living word of God now in whom that One God fully manifested (revealed) to us not that God incarnated as he(Jesus).
I think you also believe that Jesus is separate from his Father who is called as the only God. The Holy Spirit is from the Father but came in Jesus name that's why Holy Spirit is  called Spirit of Christ or Spirit of Son. But I can not believe that there are three persons in God because God is never changing 1 Tim 6:15-17, His characterisics are same from eternity to eternity but He manifests to mankind through His creation like angels in O.T, through Jesus His Son in N.T and through the Holy Spirit in believers today. But that does not make all these manifestations as God(s). Even after Jesus coming to earth seen and touched by many men John says “No one has ever seen God” in 1 Jn 4:12, if at all Jesus himself is the person of Godhead this sentence could not have been written by John. Therefore I believe that God is never changing inspite of His revelations and manifestations in various ways and forms. His invisble and immortal characteristics are not changing. That's why once again I say that God is only One and there is no one equal to Him either angels or Son himself.
Peace to you
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So you say the Holy Spirit is one of three spirits as one?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,09:01)

Hi WJ, So you say the Holy Spirit is one of three spirits as one?

NH

Why dont you give me the quote where I said there are three Spirits?

[Author]

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