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Hi,
I have copied WJ's post here“Will touch on the rest later, but thought for now I would say that your interpretation of the Holy Spirit and the pronouns is a total violation to all of the major translations.
How do you propose to know more about Greek than the 100s of translators?
So lets see what your translation looks like…
“But when it, the Spirit of truth, comes, it will guide you into all the truth; for it will not speak on its own initiative, but whatever it hears, it will speak; and it will disclose to you what is to come.”
Sounds like the twilight zone. Here is why the translators disagree with your interpretation.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
”Come”… erchomai, which means…
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publicThis word is used AV — come 616, go 13, misc 13, vr come 1
It is used almost invariably in association with a person in the NT.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Guide”… hodēgeō, which means… 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance toThis word is used AV — lead 3, guide 2
100 percent used in association with a person.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Speak”… laleo, which means…
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
3) to talk
4) to utter, tell
5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
a) to speakAV — speak 244, say 15, tell 12, talk 11, preach 6, utter 4, misc 3, vr speak 1
Almost invariably it involves a person with a tongue.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Hear”… akouō, which means…
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
Again, almost invariably associated with a person who has ears.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Shew” anaggello,
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseAV — tell 6, show 6, declare 3, rehearse 1, speak 1, report 1
100% associated with a person who has a tongue.
While we are at it lets look at the 14th verse.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Glorify” doxazo,
1) to think, suppose, be of opinion
2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent
b) to make renowned, render illustrious
1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedAV — glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make glorious 1, full of glory 1
100% associated with a person.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Receive” lambano,1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
b) to take in order to carry away
1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
1) to claim, procure, for one's self
a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
d) to take
1) to admit, receive
2) to receive what is offered
3) not to refuse or reject
4) to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
a) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
e) to take, to choose, select
f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get backAV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17
Almost invariably associated with a person.
This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns.
Should we ignore them?
Finally Jesus said…
But the Comforter, (parakletos) which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
Jesus uses this greek word “parakletos” 4 times in the Gospel of John in referring to the Holy Spirit.
“parakletos” is “Masculine noun” that means;
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom
In fact John even uses the word in describing Yeshua here…
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
I think the translators have it right.
Blessings! ”
Should we ignore inferences?
No we should allow such things to enlarge our view of the amazing Spirit of God.
But we should not go beyond what is written and add to scripture that the Spirit is a person.NH
No offence but I recopied it to show what my response is to.
Hi LU
Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,09:07) I use the pronoun “it” for the Holy Spirit because “spirit” is a neuter noun and not a masculine noun. The pronoun for a neuter noun is “it” and not “he”. Will touch on the rest later, but thought for now I would say that your interpretation of the Holy Spirit and the pronouns is a total violation to all of the major translations.
How do you propose to know more about Greek than the 100s of translators?
So lets see what your translation looks like…
“But when it, the Spirit of truth, comes, it will guide you into all the truth; for it will not speak on its own initiative, but whatever it hears, it will speak; and it will disclose to you what is to come.”
Sounds like the twilight zone. Here is why the translators disagree with your interpretation.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
”Come”… erchomai, which means…
1) to come
a) of persons
1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
2) to appear, make one's appearance, come before the publicThis word is used AV — come 616, go 13, misc 13, vr come 1
It is used almost invariably in association with a person in the NT.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Guide”… hodēgeō, which means… 1) to be a guide, lead on one's way, to guide
2) to be a guide or a teacher
a) to give guidance toThis word is used AV — lead 3, guide 2
100 percent used in association with a person.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Speak”… laleo, which means…
1) to utter a voice or emit a sound
2) to speak
a) to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
b) to utter articulate sounds
3) to talk
4) to utter, tell
5) to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
a) to speakAV — speak 244, say 15, tell 12, talk 11, preach 6, utter 4, misc 3, vr speak 1
Almost invariably it involves a person with a tongue.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Hear”… akouō, which means…
1) to be endowed with the faculty of hearing, not deaf
2) to hear
b) to attend to, consider what is or has been said
c) to understand, perceive the sense of what is said
3) to hear something
a) to perceive by the ear what is announced in one's presence
b) to get by hearing learn
c) a thing comes to one's ears, to find out, learn
d) to give ear to a teaching or a teacher
e) to comprehend, to understandAV — hear 418, hearken 6, give audience 3, hearer 2, misc 8
Again, almost invariably associated with a person who has ears.
The verse says the Spirit of truth will…
“Shew” anaggello,
1) to announce, make known
2) to report, bring back tidings, rehearseAV — tell 6, show 6, declare 3, rehearse 1, speak 1, report 1
100% associated with a person who has a tongue.
While we are at it lets look at the 14th verse.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Glorify” doxazo,
1) to think, suppose, be of opinion
2) to praise, extol, magnify, celebrate
3) to honour, do honour to, hold in honour
4) to make glorious, adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour
a) to impart glory to something, render it excellent
b) to make renowned, render illustrious
1) to cause the dignity and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledgedAV — glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make glorious 1, full of glory 1
100% associated with a person.
The Spirit of truth will…
“Receive” lambano,1) to take
a) to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
1) to take up a thing to be carried
2) to take upon one's self
b) to take in order to carry away
1) without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
c) to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
1) to claim, procure, for one's self
a) to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
2) of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
3) to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
4) to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
5) catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
6) to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
d) to take
1) to admit, receive
2) to receive what is offered
3) not to refuse or reject
4) to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
a) to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
e) to take, to choose, select
f) to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
2) to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get backAV — receive 133, take 106, have 3, catch 3, not tr 1, misc 17
Almost invariably associated with a person.
This is only two verses spoken by Jesus and not to mention the Apostles describing the Holy Spirit with personal attributes using personal pronouns.
Should we ignore them?
Finally Jesus said…
But the Comforter, (parakletos) which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
Jesus uses this greek word “parakletos” 4 times in the Gospel of John in referring to the Holy Spirit.
“parakletos” is “Masculine noun” that means;
1) summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid
a) one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
b) one who pleads another's cause with one, an intercessor
1) of Christ in his exaltation at God's right hand, pleading with God the Father for the pardon of our sins
c) in the widest sense, a helper, succourer, aider, assistant
1) of the Holy Spirit destined to take the place of Christ with the apostles (after his ascension to the Father), to lead them to a deeper knowledge of the gospel truth, and give them divine strength needed to enable them to undergo trials and persecutions on behalf of the divine kingdom
In fact John even uses the word in describing Yeshua here…
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate (parakletos) with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1 John 2:1
I think the translators have it right.
Blessings!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2008,07:46) Hi,
The Spirit of God is not a person in God.
Would a person be anointed on Jesus and now on millions?
NHDoes the Spirit of God dwell in you?
If he does then is that Spirit God or not?
Do you have more than One Spirit dwelling in you?
Of course you will continue to push your inferrence that the Spirit is not a person.
How can the Spirit or God which is in you not be a person?
Hi WJ,
NOT a person by inference?
Where is it written that the Holy Spirit is?I have no persons in me thank you very much.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:13) Hi WJ,
NOT a person by inference?
Where is it written that the Holy Spirit is?I have no persons in me thank you very much.
NHYea I figured as much.
So the Spirit in you is not God.
Right?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:13) Hi WJ,
NOT a person by inference?
Where is it written that the Holy Spirit is?I have no persons in me thank you very much.
NHAre you a person?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2008,10:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:13) Hi WJ,
NOT a person by inference?
Where is it written that the Holy Spirit is?I have no persons in me thank you very much.
NHYea I figured as much.
So the Spirit in you is not God.
Right?
Hi WJ,
So if I cannot say that I have a person in me, even though God's Spirit is never called a person in scripture, by your traditional teachings God does not live in me?You show your preferences and deny the ways of God?
You are following man's ways, WJ, not God's ways.
Quote (gollamudi @ June 09 2008,06:51) Thank you kathi,
I think Mandy also thinking differently nowaydays you might have seen her post under “pre-existence”. May be she is thinking like you. When you have posted that Son of God was the light created by God on the day One, I really got agitated on your interpretations. Any how now we have to examine every revelation in the light of scriptures only. Nothing can deviate from the written word of God, that is my belief.
I will certainly gothrough that in detail in the light of scriptures. meanwhile if you have anything more you can share. So far I have learnt many things from Gene, Adam Pastor, Mandy and few other brothers in this forum.
May God continue to give us revelations in understanding His scriptures properly.
Love to you
Adam
Hi Adam,As Kathi has pointed out, her beliefs and my beliefs run along different paths. In other words, we do not agree on who the Son of God is, neither in his alleged preexistence nor in his earthly body.
I can see how she has developed her theories, but I do not agree with them.
The only person I can point to on this forum with views close to mine is Adam Pastor. He and I have been in touch through email, but I sure wish he would contribute more here.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter which men we believe have the truth……..Jesus is the way to truth. He IS the truth and the life. This much I have reconciled and embrace fully and confidently.
Thanks Adam, I'm enjoying your posts!
Love,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:30) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 12 2008,10:15) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:13) Hi WJ,
NOT a person by inference?
Where is it written that the Holy Spirit is?I have no persons in me thank you very much.
NHYea I figured as much.
So the Spirit in you is not God.
Right?
Hi WJ,
So if I cannot say that I have a person in me, even though God's Spirit is never called a person in scripture, by your traditional teachings God does not live in me?You show your preferences and deny the ways of God?
You are following man's ways, WJ, not God's ways.
NHYou do not answer straight questions.
I said is the Spirit in you God?
I asked if God is a person?
You will not say if God is a person or not.
You are the one that refuses to believe certain scriptures declaring the personal nature of the Holy Spirit yet you say I am following mans ways and not Gods.
You make accusations of me using inferrence on clear scriptures that support my belief.
What do you know about my relationship with God?
You condemn others here that do not agree with you and have the nerve to say they dont follow God.
Hi WJ,
It would be best if you relied only on what is written and then these extraneous matters you bring in would not be an issue. We do not share your love of gnostic theological additions to what is written and cannot dialogue while you continue to put them alongside scripture as if they were of equal veracity.
Catholicism teaches such things and we find her approach abhorrent.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:46) Hi WJ,
It would be best if you relied only on what is written and then these extraneous matters you bring in would not be an issue. We do not share your love of gnostic theological additions to what is written and cannot dialogue while you continue to put them alongside scripture as if they were of equal veracity.
Catholicism teaches such things and we find her approach abhorrent.
NHThere you go again.
Now you say I am not relying on scripture.
Since when do you have all truth?
Since when is your theology here the only way?
Could it be that your teachings are gnostic and not mine?
Do you even have a true definition of what the gnostics believed?
I know you like to see yourself as the plumbline of truth on this sight, but you are just a man like myself who has limited knowledge and a personal understanding of God.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2008,10:46) Hi WJ,
It would be best if you relied only on what is written and then these extraneous matters you bring in would not be an issue. We do not share your love of gnostic theological additions to what is written and cannot dialogue while you continue to put them alongside scripture as if they were of equal veracity.
Catholicism teaches such things and we find her approach abhorrent.
NHAnd who is we?
Most people here do not share your beliefs no more than mine.
Hi WJ,
How can we be united if you add extrascriptural KNOWLEDGE to what you bring to the table?
Gnostic additions have nothing to offer truth.The Holy spirit while personified in humanly ways at times in scripture is simply God's spirit…aka the means by which he accomplishes his purpose…any personification of it… is used simply to help fleshly minds comprehend something that is incomprehensibly powerful yet strictly spiritual
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 12 2008,10:32) Quote (gollamudi @ June 09 2008,06:51) Thank you kathi,
I think Mandy also thinking differently nowaydays you might have seen her post under “pre-existence”. May be she is thinking like you. When you have posted that Son of God was the light created by God on the day One, I really got agitated on your interpretations. Any how now we have to examine every revelation in the light of scriptures only. Nothing can deviate from the written word of God, that is my belief.
I will certainly gothrough that in detail in the light of scriptures. meanwhile if you have anything more you can share. So far I have learnt many things from Gene, Adam Pastor, Mandy and few other brothers in this forum.
May God continue to give us revelations in understanding His scriptures properly.
Love to you
Adam
Hi Adam,As Kathi has pointed out, her beliefs and my beliefs run along different paths. In other words, we do not agree on who the Son of God is, neither in his alleged preexistence nor in his earthly body.
I can see how she has developed her theories, but I do not agree with them.
The only person I can point to on this forum with views close to mine is Adam Pastor. He and I have been in touch through email, but I sure wish he would contribute more here.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter which men we believe have the truth……..Jesus is the way to truth. He IS the truth and the life. This much I have reconciled and embrace fully and confidently.
Thanks Adam, I'm enjoying your posts!
Love,
Mandy
You are welcome my Sis.
Do share your new views for our benefit.
Love to you
AdamHi LU. This post is in response to your post on the preexistence thread.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,17:12)
Hi WJ,
I am thankful that the Holy Spirit is capable of many things. The spirit of man is capable of different personified things as well. Note these verses below:
That’s because the Spirit of the man is the Man.For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 2 Cor 2:11 NIV
Man is a Spirit being who has a soul and lives in a body.
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thess 5:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3
What is born again? My flesh? My soul? Or, as Jesus said my Spirit?
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
The scriptures clearly teach that there is an inner man that is our real self.
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; Eph 3:16
This inner man is also called the “New Man”. We are now a new creation in Christ Jesus.
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Eph 4:24
It is this new man that is created in righteousness, in fact the scriptures say we are the righteousness of God. We have been born again, and out of our belly out of us or our Spirits flows rivers of living water. It is our souls that are being saved and being changed to be like him.
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9
I am now an overcomer, and wrestle not against flesh and blood but spiritual wickedness in high places, why? Because I am Spirit like my Father God is Spirit. Sons of God are Spirit beings and not merely flesh. So I disagree with you that the Spirit of man is not the man.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,17:12) Job 21:4
As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?Ps 77:3
I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah.Ps 77:6
I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search.Ps 142:3
When my spirit was overwhelmed within me, then thou knewest my path. In the way wherein I walked have they privily laid a snare for me.Co 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.Lu 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.So what can the spirit of man do?
It can rejoice in God
It can pray
It can be overwhelmed
It can make a diligent search
It can be troubledThe spirit of man can do things that a man can also do; pray, search, etc. but it is not another man which is inside us or with us but it is a “thing” a very unique and special thing, not a person.
Is there a scripture that says or implies the spirit is a thing? A thing cannot do all the things you mentioned. Those things are the attributes of a man. You imply my spirit, is not man, but a “thing”, and that thing can do those things, but I as a man can do them also. Was the “thing” within me born again, for it was my Spirit that was born again, which Yeshua says is the man? While it may not be grammatically incorrect to use the pronoun “it” depending on context, it is never to reduce the nature of the Holy Spirit to an impersonal force or power.An example of this is I can say “God dwells in my Spirit”, now is it incorrect to say God dwells in me? Yet I can also say that “MY spirit is united with God, “it” is made in the likeness of God”. Usiing the word “it” does not diminish the fact that “I” am made in the likeness of God.
Another example is “God is Spirit, it is by his Spirit that he sees all things, for “it” fills all things. That doesnt diminish the fact that it is God that fills all things, and not merely a “thing” or an “it” or else the Spirit would be greater than God.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,17:12)
The spirit of man is a neuter noun also just like the spirit of God is a neuter noun and the pronouns for a neuter noun would be it, its, and itself.
I have given you a “masculine noun” that you have ignored. Here it is again…But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
That is with the definite article and in fact is a “masculine noun”. Jesus gives you the definition of the Holy Spirit when he says… But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost… John 14:26
So what credentials do you have to contradict the 100s of scholars that use the pronouns he, him, himself, in most all of the major translations. The Greek never implies the Spirit is an “it”. In fact Greek and English Grammar would dictate the pronouns he, him and himself be used simply by the verbs surrounding those pronouns, which I have shown in another post that those verbs were almost invariably used throughout the scriptures in referring to a he, him or himself or man or God.
Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,17:12)
Let's try these verses again but add he/it. Which one fits better? First say the verse with “he” as the pronoun and then say the verse with “it” as the pronoun. Do you notice a difference?
Sure you do when you add a pronoun that is not in the text. Notice none of the scriptures you quote use neither one of the pronouns “he” or “it” do they?But let’s let the scripture interpret itself. For example…
Job 21:4As for me, is my complaint to man? and if it were so, why should not my spirit be troubled?
Was Job troubled or was it just the “Thing” that was in him? Is Job a separate man from his “thing”?Ps 77:3
I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed.
Was Asaph overwhelmed or was it just the “thing” or “it” that was in him.Lu 1:47
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Did Mary rejoice in God here Saviour or was it just the “thing or it” that was in her?BTW, Mary
also said just before this in verse 46
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
This confirms man is a tri-part being according to 1 Thess 5:23.Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,17:12)
I would think that “it” would be a better choice as the pronoun for man's spirit because the word “he” makes it sound like the spirit is another person in or with us.
Well I do not think that “it” or “thing” is a good word to describe man. Man is more than just flesh, and in fact like God is a very complex being.Quote (Lightenup @ June 12 2008,17:12)
So, I think that “it” instead of “he” should be the pronoun for the Holy Spirit. Using “he” when the spirit is a neuter noun really changes the meaning as we can see in the above and no wonder for all the confusion thinking that the Holy Spirit is another person. Masculine nouns get “he/his/himself”, feminine nouns get “she/her/herself” and neuter nouns get it/its/itself as their pronouns.
God bless,LUAgain, you think better than the translators. But it doesn’t take any Greek to know that Yeshua says the “Comforter” a masculine noun is the Holy Spirit.
The confusion is created by people trying to change what 100s of experts over centuries has given their lives for in bringing to us the purist form of the text that we have today shown through the many translations that vary little or have little differences, and the nature of the Holy Spirit is not one of those differences, unless you want to use the “NWT”.
Blessings!
Hi all brothers and sisters in the Lord, here is the post which I replied to Isaiah in pre-existence topic. I thought this is the right place to ask you to explain the verses I quoted on the “Holy Sprit”
“Hi Isaiah,
That is a wonderful article on the Holy Spirit that you have given in a link. I do accept that the Holy Spirit is not just a force or some amorphous. But I don't believe in any Trinity because we can not make God into many persons but I do believe that the invisible God manifests Himself through angels, His son, and now in Holy Spirit. Yes your points are strong when you quoted that the Holy Spirit can not be the personal Spirit of God because it is subordination to Jesus the son of God who is also in subordination to His Father the only God.
Some times I wonder why John was mentioning this in Jn 7:39 see for your self 'What is the meaning of his saying in Jn 7:36-39?
36
'You will look for me and not find (me), and where I am you cannot come'?”
37
On the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood up and exclaimed, “Let anyone who thirsts come to me and drink.
38
Whoever believes in me, as scripture says:
'Rivers of living water 14 will flow from within him.'”
39
He said this in reference to the Spirit that those who came to believe in him were to receive. There was, of course, no Spirit yet, 15 because Jesus had not yet been glorified.See the last line “There was of course no Spirit yet, because Jesus has not been glorified” I wonder why there is link between the Spirit giving and Jesus' glorification?
Also another verse: Jn 16:5-7
5
But now I am going to the one who sent me, and not one of you asks me, 3 'Where are you going?'
6
But because I told you this, grief has filled your hearts.
7
But I tell you the truth, it is better for you that I go. For if I do not go, the Advocate will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Underline the word “if I do not go” the advocate(comforter) will not come to you.I often ask my self what is the relationship of Jesus' going with the giving of Holy Spirit. I think the understanding of the Holy Spirit is lying in these verses I quoted above.
Hope God will give us understanding of His Holy Spirit properly.”
Blessings to all
AdamHi WJ,
So, can a woman be a comforter or not? Can a woman be a helper or not? Both comforter and helper are masculine nouns but I do believe that a woman can be both of these things and would not be referred to as “he”.Eph 1:17
that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.The nouns: wisdom, revelation and knowledge are all feminine nouns. If a man has a spirit of wisdom in him that does not mean he has a woman within him?
From Romans 2:19-20
…and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth…the nouns: guide, corrector and teacher are all masculine nouns. Does that mean if a woman is a teacher then we should refer to her as a “he”? When a class sees their teacher coming down the hall, do they say “she” is coming down the hall if the teacher is a woman? Or do they say “he” is coming down the hall because teacher is a masculine noun even though the teacher is a woman? Obviously they would say “she is coming down the hall”. Do you get my point.
The “comforter” is a role of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a role of the Comforter. Therefore the gender of the noun “spirit” would dictate, not the gender of the role that it plays.
So, if a thing (a neuter noun) plays the role of a comforter, we should still refer to the thing as with neuter pronouns.
I agree with you in that this thing, the Holy Spirit, is within God. I have no problem with that. The Holy Spirit is the “inner man” so to speak but not the outer man. The Holy Spirit is a part of the whole person of the Father. I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is the Father, I am not saying that the Holy Spirit is a seperate person distinct from the Father, I am saying that the Holy Spirit is a part of the Father. It is the spirit part of the person of the Father, not the mind of the Father, and not the body of the Father.
Till next time…
LUHi LU,
Certainly one of the clearest teachings given by Jesus is that God IS in heaven.
Here are a few.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 10:32
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
)Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.Matthew 15:13
But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.Matthew 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 18:10
Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 18:14
Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.Matthew 18:19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.Matthew 18:35
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.Mark 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.Mark 11:26
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.But the Father's Spirit manifests God throughout creation.
We are to be united in Christ in that Spirit too.
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