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Truthcomber. …..let’s stay simply ok?, keep it short,
You quote scripture that say ” it” is sown a natural body “it” is raised a spiritual body,” Now please explain what is the “it” mentioned their. Is it not a physical “body” that is raised ? please notice it do not “it” is raised a spirit, but it says “it” is “raised” a spiritual “body” . Jesus was raised with a spritual body, he was not and is not a spirit of anykind, but a physical human being, who has the spirit of the living God “in” him, just as we shall also be.
Lets get this clear first then we can move on to the part of a grain of wheat or corn , being sown as a old body, but raised as a new “body’ exactly like the old body it came from.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Gene:
Gene said: You quote scripture that say ” it” is sown a natural body “it” is raised a spiritual body,” Now please explain what is the “it” mentioned their. Is it not a physical “body” that is raised ? please notice it do not “it” is raised a spirit, but it says “it” is “raised” a spiritual “body”.
Me: This is speaking of our bodies, not Christ’s. Christ’s body was not changed into a glorious one until he had ascended into heaven (Rom 1:4).
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_corinthians/15-44.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-44.htmMe: There is no “it” in the original Greek.
The verse would read this way:
“Sown natural body raised spiritual body if natural body also spiritual body.”
But if you insist that “it” should be inserted in 1 Cor 15:44 then “it” would be just a body not designated spiritual or natural by itself.Gene said: Jesus was raised with a spritual body, he was not and is not a spirit of anykind, but a physical human being, who has the spirit of the living God “in” him, just as we shall also be.
Me: You contradict yourself. How can Christ be raised a spiritual body and be a physical human being.
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the TRUTH and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT.Me: We worship the Father through spirit and truth which is Christ. The Father is the mind of the spirit and is spirit. Christ was raised with the body he died with, i.e. a little below angels. His body was transformed into a glorious one that shined as the bright morning star after he had ascended into heaven. We also will have bodies like this. But the body is not the primary emphasis or goal. The spirit is. For God gives every spirit a body.
Matt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Gene:
I will not be answering your posts especially and will rest from all this for awhile. You can talk to yourself if you please, or maybe even to your mentor, Jodi. I have addressed everything you have quoted. You on the other hand have not addressed all the scriptures I have quoted. I have never ever seen anything as deceptive as you and Jodi are.
Hi Gene & TC
It is important to realize all resurrections that have taken place from the time of Adam until now, have been resurrections to mortal life and that even includes the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
But wait, are we not told in the Holy Scriptures that our Lord became the firstfruit (singular) of those who will be resurrected to live for the rest of eternity with the Father (1 Corinthians 15:20-23)? Yes, that is correct.
When Jesus was resurrected, He came forth from the tomb first as a mortal being. He then went to His Father in heaven, sprinkled His blood upon the walls of God’s own Holy of Holies. After this, Christ was brought to the throne on the right hand of the Father and then He was clothed with a mantle of spiritual power that changed Him into a spirit body that will remain alive for the rest of eternity. He then sat down on the right hand of God and by doing so assured each of us that we will do the same thing in our own resurrections. We will sit on the same throne as Christ (Ephesians 2:6).
There was a span of an hour or so between Christ’s actual resurrection from the tomb of Joseph of Arimathaea on the Mount of Olives and when He went to heaven to appear before the Father to receive His glorified body. He was at first mortal. He told Mary soon after His resurrection “touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father” (John 20:17). He had not yet purified heaven (the universe) with His blood.
The fact is, when Mary saw Him resurrected from the dead, Christ had still not been completely forgiven of the sins upon Him until He appeared before the Father in heaven. He then appeared before the Judgment Seat of God.
Remember that it is given unto men to die and then we must undergo the Judgment; and even Christ (as our representative and substitute) had to pass the Judgment of God in heaven before He could be redeemed and saved. See Hebrews 9:27 for this essential teaching. The Father brought Christ to the Judgment Seat and there God legally and officially absolved Christ of those sins (our sins) that He bore for us. He did this on our behalf.
That means that each of us has passed that Judgment Seat in triumph because we were “in Christ” when He passed that Judgment Seat with a victorious award of a certain salvation and glory (2 Corinthians 5:10-20). Christ was then clothed with the mantle of salvation and He was again given His spirit body. He sat down on the right hand of the Father, just as we (after our resurrections) will sit on that throne in heaven (Ephesians 2:6). We will also have a spiritual body as He has (Philippians 3:21).
After the Father cleansed and purified Christ (and when Christ passed the Judgment Seat as a substitute for us that morning after His resurrection almost two thousand years ago), Christ was legally and officially cleansed of every sin He ever had on His back. That means our sins, dear brethren, because Christ had no sins of His own to account for. At that moment, Christ passed the Judgment Seat of God triumphantly with a sinless record to show; He passed the bar of God gloriously and He did it in our place.
Passing the Judgment Seat of God by Christ was done for us and on our behalf. Once Christ emerged from the Judgment Seat triumphantly, God the Father told Him to put on the mantle of salvation and glory ordained for Him before the foundation of the world (2 Timothy 1:9). But Christ was not doing this for Himself alone. Christ took on the responsibility of bringing all of us in the human race with Him into the very salvation and the glory He was ordained to have from the beginning of time. In the eyes of God the Father we all sat down with Christ on that same glorious throne in heaven. Our salvations were then and there secured and made certain at that time and for all future time.
We are saved by grace, not works. God guarantees our glory.
We Must Be Changed from Mortal to Immortal
What Christ experienced was something special and extraordinary after His resurrection from the dead. When He came forth from the grave He was as mortal as all the Old Testament saints and New Testament saints of later times, that had undergone similar resurrections from the dead. None of these resurrections—not even those special individuals who came forth at Christ’s resurrection as witness to the power of God over death—was a resurrection to spiritual life with a spirit body to last for eternity. No. All of these resurrections were to mortal life like that of Lazarus. None were spiritual resurrections that meant the person not die any more. In fact, all resurrections to life are to mortal life unless a secondary procedure is done by God to infuse those resurrected bodies with a new spirit-body the same type as that now enjoyed by Christ and the Father. Christ was given that secondary infusion of spiritual life when He went to heaven. It made His body impervious to death and incapable of dying any more.
When He appeared before the Father with His own blood, the Father looked at Him and told Him to sprinkle His blood in the Holy of Holies in heaven. The Father then absolved Christ by grace of all sin and pollution, along with all of us reckoned to be “in Him.” The Father told Him to place the mantle of spiritual power upon His body that would change Him into immortality. Doing this, Christ sat down at the right hand of the Father in heaven. And Christ took each of us with Him to that throne. We sat “with Christ” on that throne when He sat on it (Ephesians 2:6). To sit on that throne means you will have a body like we do now.
Paul stated that all must die and after that comes the Judgment (Hebrews 9:27). So, Christ went to heaven first and appeared before the Father in the normal type of Judgment that all humans have to undergo. After that, He had to be accepted of the Father. He sprinkled His own blood on the walls of God’s heavenly palace and God the Father, in total acceptance of what His firstborn Son had done, finally clothed Him with the mantle of spiritual power to infuse Him permanently with the Father’s divine spirit. Christ then became a spirit-bodied person with the same bodily factors of spirit substance that has always embraced the Father in heaven. That was the moment when Christ secured for us the same type of spiritual body, rank, character and emotions, the same holiness, and an identical membership in the Family of God that Christ also had. We will all become “God.”
This assumption of Christ’s new spirit embodiment was asecondary factor in the resurrection process. As far as all other people mentioned in the Holy Scriptures who were resurrected from the dead, none was given that secondaryexperience that would grant them life for the rest of eternity with the Father. But Christ was given it. Christ became the firstfruit of those that died. As a result of Christ’s resurrection from the dead, He gained that resplendent and awesome secondary experience. It is a secondary clothing of intrinsic life. When applied to us, this donning of that spiritual garment makes us to be exactly like God the Father in bodily composition and, in a legal sense, to have the same divine characteristics and substance now enjoyed by Christ and the Father.
What do I mean by secondaryact? This secondary function results in our mortal body being changed into immortal spirit substance—into a body that looks exactly like a human being, but the substance of the body is composed of spirit (a special heavenly material). This spirit is as tangible to other spirit beings as our present fleshly body is tangible to other fleshly bodies. All humans must be changed into this new form to inherit and enjoy our incorruptible spirit bodies made of spirit-substance.
Our Future Spiritual Body
The spirit substance we are to inherit is as solid to another spirit being (or substance) as the Notre Dame cathedral is solid and substantial to our physical experience in the flesh. Spirit bodies are substantial to other spirit bodies. In the resurrection, we are all to have bodies like we have now, though composed of spiritual substance, not flesh and blood. They will be bodies just like Christ and the Father now have. Recall that Christ is the express image of the Father in every way (Hebrews 1:3). In the resurrection, our bodies will be whole bodies with every appendage in place. If your present body lacks a finger or an arm (or an appendix) or you are circumcised, you will be restored to the same type of body as Adam had (who was in the image and form as God the Father), though your body will be of spirit substance. For an example of this type of restoration, see Isaiah 35:6.
Christ provides another example of this restoration of all body parts in one of His miracles. There was a man who had a withered arm, but it was restored by Christ back to a perfect condition, to be just like his other arm (Matthew 12:9-13). And Paul said the resurrection was like sowing wheat or some grain and when the original seed dies, the outcome is a new seed being born would be with perfect dimensions like the former seed. So will we come forth whole and restored, with a Spiritual body.
God bless 🙏
Hi all, In my last post I have to make a correction . Where it say We all become God, was supposed to come out as” We all become god’s
God bless.
Hi Anthony, I mostly agree with you. My Summary.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 the same was in the beginning with God.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Me: If the Word of God was with God, then God is composed of more than one part. If all of God is spirit, the Word must be spirit also.
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Mind is of the spirit and the spirit is of the mind (Romans 8:27, Eph 4:23). Together, it is one God—mind and spirit. These are invisible and intrinsically and inseparable intertwined. They are considered two sides of the same coin.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;…
What does this profound statement mean? It means that we humans were either spirits from eternity or were made spirits before they took on flesh. Either way, our spirits were before our flesh. Our spirits (and minds) are the seeds of our bodies (1 Cor 15:38).
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: This statement also means that the Word was spirit before he took on flesh. The Word is God and therefore is eternal. The Word was not made flesh but was made one with flesh or “took on flesh”.
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Me: Christ took on the seed or nature of Abraham, not the body of Abraham. For his body was made “a little lower than angels.”
The spirit of God became one with the seed of David. Seed here is a spiritual quality or nature. The human nature of the messiah grew in its bond with the holy spirit or nature of God.New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT.Me: When this was accomplished fully, Christ became a life giving spirit. Life giving means eternal life here, for God is the giver of all life. We could now be baptized of the holy spirit and resurrect into a new a life with the human element of the man in God. By man came death, by man the resurrection of the dead. No one was resurrected into heaven prior to this. We become adopted sons of God through Christ.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour (time) is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
The final result from a spiritual view is God is still mind and spirit as he was in John 1:1-2. But now the spirit or Word contains the nature of man it, not just God. The Word is now the Son of God. God is still ONE PERSON, God and his Son. The Son can give eternal life to all.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour.
hi All,
Me: And God has acquired a spirit body. It is the body for the mind and spirit of God.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Me: The body of God is for all of God, God and his Son. God is one. The Messiah said he and his father are one. The church becomes of one spirit and of one body with God.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Me: We worship God in spirit and truth. In the past, no one could come to God but through the spirit. This spirit is now Christ, for no man can come to the Father except through the son.
Did God have a body from eternity? No, a body is a creation. Could God exist without a body, even now? I suppose, because God gives every seed a body, including himself.
God reproduces himself. Every seed reproduces of its kind. The first Son is Christ. Man becomes God’s sons through adoption by putting on Christ. We are to become a “little lower than God”.
Hi All,
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that THOU BEING A MAN MAKEST THYSELF GOD.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ (savior) ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour.
If anyone denies that Christ is the savior, he spiritually throw rocks at the Son of God when he says he is just a man. He is the son of man because the Word has acquired the nature of Abraham. In that capacity, he is the Word made the Son of God.
Hi TC
You said: The human nature of the messiah grew in its bond with the holy spirit or nature of God.
Me: I would same it different, “that the human nature was fused with the nature of God, where we can only see one nature.”
If this wasn’t so I would have to choose what nature was Jesus talking and acting in the human or the Divine. (And He was without sins.)
Me: I see two personality, and the Father being greater then the Son.
Me: We are born of the holy spirit also. Our human nature grows until it is completely bonded with the holy spirit. This is, the holy spirit is fused with the human spirit as one, yes. God also has one nature, the divine with the human element (seed of David) now fused in it. He has one mind (the father) which is and always was greater than his spirit. There is one person that is God, not two. God is mind and spirit. We too are mind and become of one spirit or nature. It is our bodies with death in it that cause us to sin. Death is the opposite of life. Life is righteousness and is the opposite of unrighteousness.
In this life we follow the holy spirit or we follow the flesh with the spirit of death in it. We follow one of two spirits. Christ had only the holy spirit in him at birth.
New American Standard Bible
Acts 2:31 he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that HE WAS NEITHER ABANDONED TO HADES, NOR DID His flesh SUFFER DECAY.https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/2-31.htm
There is no “soul” in the Greek concordance. So who is “HE” in Acts 2:31 above. I believe it is the body of Christ together with the nature or the seed of David.
Heb 4:12 For the WORD OF GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Me: God is ONE, Mind and Spirit.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit (Me: the Word or now Son of God) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind (our heavenly Father) of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Me: Christ as a life giving spirit and makes intercession or mediation for us. The mind of the spirit (our heavenly Father) and the holy spirit (the Word or son of God) are one.
Jodi,
You:
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
This new testament is the exact same as the COVENANT spoken by Isaiah.Me: No, it is not. Old does not mean new. The new expounds on the old.
You:
Isaiah 42:I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Jesus of Nazareth is the prophesied stem of Jesse who God anointed with His Spirit (Isaiah 11:1-2 and 61:1), calling him to righteousness to be covenant for all people (Isaiah 42:6), being made perfect by learning obedience through suffering (Hebrews 5:8-9), remaining faithful to God going to the cross dying for our sins, because God had made him “of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD” (Isaiah 11:3).
TC, Jesus is our mediator through a covenant which involved a human of the offspring of Jesse having God’s Spirit placed upon him being CALLED to righteousness.Me:
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH; and BESIDES ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR.
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord (2962. kurios) is that SPIRIT: and where the Spirit of the Lord (2962. kurios) is, there is liberty.
Me: The holy spirit is Christ. As explained in the above posts, God is mind and spirit—God and his Word (John 1:1-2). God and his Word are now God and his Son. They are one. God is invisible.
So how can Christ rest upon Christ? The holy spirit was in the Messiah from birth and upon the Messiah. The Messiah is not the spirit or Word only, but the heart and nature of the seed of David in the flesh made a “little below angels”. I have shown you these verses.
New International Version
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.Me: The Word or holy spirit came from the father, not from man.
Heb 2:16 For verily HE took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the (7) seed (nature) of Abraham.
Who is “HE” in Heb 2:16? It is the Word of God that existed from eternity that became one with the humanity of Abraham and David. This relationship bonded as one.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him...10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Me: The Word and his Father are ONE PERSON, not two. The Word now includes the humanity and nature of David in it. The spirit of God grew in its humanity of Christ. The humanity of Christ grew in the holy spirit.
Isa 11:2 And the spirit (Eph 4:4: one spirit) of the YHWH shall rest upon him, the spirit of (1) wisdom and (2) understanding, (3) the spirit of counsel and (4) might, the (5) spirit of knowledge and of the (6) fear (reverence and awe) of the YHWH;
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the (7) seed (nature) of Abraham.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Me: So an eye represents a spirit. The seven characteristics of the holy spirit now includes the humanity of David. The HOLY SPIRIT is the mediator between the father and mankind. It includes the humanity of the nature of David in it. Mediator does not include Christ in the group of mankind that he is the mediator for. He is not the mediator for himself.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Me: Christ is not the mediator of himself between man and God, only of others. Instead, Christ is the holy spirit and is God that mediates between man and Father. God is one, the Father and Son.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour.
Jodi,
You:
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
This passage above makes your words of Jesus purely FALSE.
Jesus and God are as ONE because Jesus followed NOT his own will, he followed God’s will.
Jesus is the mediator of the new testament, the covenant that Isaiah spoke of.
This was a calling to righteousness of the offspring of Jesse. In order to fulfill this covenant the One True God had to perfect a human. That human had to LEARN OBEDIENCE. That obedience makes him ONE with God, instead of separated.Me:
Duet 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE LORD:
So tell me, who is YHWH ONE with here? It is the Word in John 1:1-2.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour.
YOU Quoted me: : The Son of man, who is God presented in the flesh cannot be fully tempted. It ended here.
You: The below passage makes your words about the Son of Man also purely FALSE.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.Me: No it doesn’t.
Duet 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the YHWH your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
Me: This is the YHWH being tempted in the OT. Otherwise, you tell me what it means.
Matt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again (Duet 6:16), Thou shalt not tempt the Lord (kurios) thy God.
Me: YHWH in Duet 6:16 is the same YHWH in Matt 4:7. He is mind and spirit. His spirit now has the humanity or seed of David in him. This seed grew in its bond with the holy spirit to become one.
You:
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Me: This means that his Father is the mind of the spirit and the Messiah is the spirit. If the Messiah was purely man, then of his self he would do something of himself because he would have free will and be a different person. The humanity in the spirit of God and the mind of God are of the one and same person.You:
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
The Son of Man is a MAN following not his OWN WILL, God is with him so that he can deny his own will and follow God’s will.
Me: You say that this man followed God’s will perfectly every moment 24/7. This is impossible for a pure man to do, even if he did not have death in his flesh. You are making a man a God. Instead the messiah was God joined with flesh, His only mind was the father fully in him. This mind was joined as one with the spirit of God, with the nature of the seed of David in him, the Messiah. True christians have the nature of God in their minds. God now has the nature of man in his.2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord (kurios) is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
You: This BEGAN AFTER the Spirit descended like a dove upon Jesus, that was his anointing, that was him being MADE The Christ, and that is WHEN God declared “THIS is my beloved Son” and this is WHEN that Son was SENT out into the world, and fame BEGAN to spread of him.
Me: No the spirit of God was sent like a dove to identify Christ.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Me: The baptism in water was an example for us to follow. It symbolizes the baptism with the holy spirit. Christ cannot be baptized into his own death before he died.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
New American Standard Bible
Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.Me: Please explain this in light of what you believe that Christ received the spirit of God at Jordan.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
The Messiah became the Son of God fully by his resurrection and glorification. It would be impossible for a mere man, especially one not born with the spirit of God to have no thoughts that are his own and not.
Jodi,
You quote me: So “God cannot be tempted” means more than Just testing him in James 1:13. You need to read the whole context.
You: You need to believe in what the whole context says and apply it to other verses.
God cannot be tempted, God is not a man so verse 14 and 15 have nothing to do with Him, but Jesus is a man so verse 14 and 15 can give us understanding.Mal 3:15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.
Me: God was tempted in the OT.
Exodus 17:2 Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt YHWH?
Isa 17:2 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
Duet 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the YHWH your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
Me: These verses show that YHWH was tempted contrary to your lame brain reasoning. Otherwise tell me what these OT mean.
Matt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God (Duet 6:16 above).
Me: Please explain all the above verses and show that YHWH was not ever tempted.
1 Cor 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of SERPENTS.
The references to 1 Cor 10:9 are below. Christ in the OT is the same Christ in the NT.
Numbers 21:5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. 6 And the YHWH sent fiery SERPENTS among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Psalm 105:14 But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and TEMPTED GOD in the desert.
1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.Me: The Word or Christ (salvation) in the OT is the same one in the NT.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 THEN when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
You: Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.
As Jesus is a MAN, who we are told was tempted in all points as we are tempted but he did not sin, we can know that Jesus never indulges in the temptations he faced as when you indulge that is when sin is brought forth. The original word for CONCEIVE is sullambano -metaph. of lust whose impulses a man INDULGES. Jesus never indulged he served only God and thus remained without sin.
Me: I just showed you that God was tempted. The difference between God and man is that for man the temptation flows to verses 14 and 15 and bears fruit.
You: TC what you DENY from God’s word and have invented your own understanding of, is to WHY it is Jesus remained without sin.
Jesus remained without sin because he was the offspring of Jesse ELECTED from out of the people to receive God’s Spirit without measure being called to righteousness.Me: Yeah right! You said that Jesus had a carnal mind and did not receive the holy spirit, had death in his flesh and had not sinned. You got to be kidding me.
John 14:9 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him… Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:…
Me: Jesus did not sin because he is God, period.
You: TC you seem to just deny God’s covenant that He made all together, you certainly give it NO RESPECT.
The covenant spoken by Isaiah has EVERYTHING to do with God perfecting Jesus, keeping him from sin, it was a MAN receiving God’s Spirit in fullness and God having it remain with him, NOT some non flesh perfect being fertilizing an egg that becomes an infant who is incapable of sinning.Me: I give you no respect because you are not worthy of it and not your false understanding. It was the spirit or Word God fully inside of the Messiah. Also, it was the mind of his father as the only mind in the Messiah. It is the nature of the seed of David that grew in its bond with the spirit of God. God has one mind of two natures. Christians have one mind of two natures, that of the holy spirit and of their humanity. We grow in the holy spirit. God through the Messiah grew in the human soul (heart, human essence).
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do NOTHING…
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Me: There is no saviour besides YHWH, not one. The father and the son are one person, not two. The mind and spirit of God is one person.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. 7 Jesus said unto him,It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
YOU quoted me: This is the beginning part of temptation.
Matt 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
The Son of man, who is God presented in the flesh cannot be fully tempted. It ended here.
You: YOU are so confused,ME: No Jezebel, you are not only confused but deceptive to yourself and more importantly try to be to others. But you and Gene have fooled no one here.
You: Jesus remained without sin because he was the offspring of Jesse ELECTED from out of the people to be called to righteousness for the purpose of fulfilling a covenant, which that covenant was for God to keep him from sin, having him learn obedience, display a final necessary act of his faith in God.
Me: The humanity in Christ did this, not God in Christ. Christ was baptized and went through trails so the humanity of him could bond as one with the spirit and the spirit of God with the mind of God
You: TC, Jesus ask God to “take away this cup” from him. He had a desire and it was not the same as God’s will, but he chose to follow God’s command, he did not give into his own desire, he went to the cross as an act of obedience to God, a display of his ultimate faith in God.
36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet LEARNED he OBEDIENCE by the things which he suffered;
Me: The humanity in Christ learned obedience, not God in Christ.You: What happened in the wilderness?
Jesus was tempted but he never indulged in those temptations.
Jesus was even tempted to tempt God, see if God would have his angels rescue him if he threw himself down, but he said “It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.” Jesus would not tempt the Lord his God. Just as he said also, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”Me: He told Satan not to tempt him who was God. I had shown you that above. Jesus is not rebuking himself, he is rebuking Satan.
You: Jesus LIVED by the WORD of God, he spoke the words of God as God’s representative and lived by them, as we are told from Isaiah of which Jesus quotes after his baptism, after his temptations in the wilderness, that the Spirit was upon him, that he was ANOINTED to PREACH God’s word, he lived by the very words of God that he preached, he preached of the covenant and then fulfilled that which he preached of, living by God’s word, making God’s word spoken by Isaiah in chapter 53 true in his flesh when he died on the cross.
Me: Yeah right! According to you Jesus did not receive the spirit of God until Jordan. Yet he committed no sin. He was just a human being all the way to then and beyond. What nonsense!
You are making a man God.
You: This is what is written,
Luke 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
and before that, this was written,
Luke 1:1 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God WILL give him the throne of his father David,
it is written “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior”Me:
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the YHWH; and beside me there is no saviourMe: The Word of God was a savior before he became one with the seed of David. How?
Isa 43:3 For I am YHWH thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.
Hos 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
2 Sam 22:3 The God of my ROCK; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Me: God is the Rock of Israel. We, the church are spiritual Israel. He will deliver us from spiritual Egypt, which is sin.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY is called Sodom and EGYPT, where also our Lord was crucified.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
You: it is also a written, “And being MADE perfect, he BECAME the source of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him”.
When the angel said, WILL BE, he wasn’t kidding, the infant would be a savior by being MADE perfect years later.The infant was called a savior for what would occur in the future.
Me: No, the Word of God was always the savior. He saves us from eternal death first by him bonding with the flesh that would be the sacrificial lamb. The bond would be of one spirit. That bond was broken temporarily and then Word and humanity would be bonded again after the resurrection.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Me: There is one God, himself and his Word.
Hi TC,
ME:
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
This new testament is the exact same as the COVENANT spoken by Isaiah.
You: No, it is not. Old does not mean new. The new expounds on the old.
ME: TC Isaiah gives a prophecy of a covenant it’s not old, it is a PROPHECY of what would be fulfilled in the FUTURE.
The OLD covenant was the LAW, which Paul calls the first testament, where you had to follow God’s law and depending on if you did or didn’t you were either blessed or cursed, in some instances you could even be put to death. That law could make no man righteous as by our own selves we can do nothing we cannot follow even one letter of the law without God’s Spirit working in us according to a given measure, as ONLY God is good.
Jesus is the mediator to a new testament which Isaiah prophesied about. Where the offspring of Jesse would have God’s Spirit placed upon him and it was a calling to righteousness. God would hold his hand and keep him from sin, having him learn OBEDIENCE through suffering on the cross making him PERFECT so to establish that new testament, that covenant Isaiah gave that was for all people, their sins wiped clean and a promise of eternal life to those who believe in this anointed one made perfect by God.
Hi TC,
I went to your first post on this thread,
YOU: I have changed my position on who the Word is. But basically the rest is the same: there is only one God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Me: “with God” shows subordination.
ME: Correct there is only one God agreed.
“with God” shows subordination. DISAGREE
Your word is definitely WITH you. You give a promise and as time goes on that promise which is your word stays WITH you. You give that promise to others and they know that it is a part of you, as you made it and you carrying it WITH you and they hold you to your word.
Your word that you give FOLLOWS you.
Hi Jodi,
You: Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
This new testament is the exact same as the COVENANT spoken by Isaiah.
TC Isaiah gives a prophecy of a covenant it’s not old, it is a PROPHECY of what would be fulfilled in the FUTURE.The OLD covenant was the LAW, which Paul calls the first testament, where you had to follow God’s law and depending on if you did or didn’t you were either blessed or cursed, in some instances you could even be put to death. That law could make no man righteous as by our own selves we can do nothing we cannot follow even one letter of the law without God’s Spirit working in us according to a given measure, as ONLY God is good.
Jesus is the mediator to a new testament which Isaiah prophesied about. Where the offspring of Jesse would have God’s Spirit placed upon him and it was a calling to righteousness. God would hold his hand and keep him from sin, having him learn OBEDIENCE through suffering on the cross making him PERFECT so to establish that new testament, that covenant Isaiah gave that was for all people, their sins wiped clean and a promise of eternal life to those who believe in this anointed one made perfect by God.Me: Let’s analyze what you stated
You: The OLD covenant was the LAW, which Paul calls the first testament
Me: So the old covenant was the Old Testament. True.
So the new covenant must be the New Testament.You: This New Testament is the exact same as the COVENANT spoken by Isaiah.
Me:
If you mean that the new covenant was prophesized by Isaiah, then of course true. If you mean that the Old testament is exactly the same as the Old testament then false. The New Testament is the new Covenant that replaces the old. It is not exactly the same. The Testament was between God and the nation of Israel. The new testament is between God and his church and those that follow. The mediator of the old covenant was Moses. The mediator of the new is the Messiah.Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the YHWH that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an HUSBAND unto them, saith YHWH:
Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine HUSBAND; YHWH of hosts is his name; and thy REDEMER the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Me: The covenant God made with ancient Israel was a MARRIAGE covenant.
Romans 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her HUSBAND so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is FREE FROM THE LAW; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Me: So who was the husband that had died? It had to be YHWH in the old covenant or marriage. It was the Word of God as we shall see below.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…14 And the Word was made flesh (me: one with flesh), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Me: The Word of God bonded as one with the seed of David. So when the seed of man died, it was as if the Word of God had died.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise…30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Me: The Old Covenant (marriage agreement) is replaced entirely by the New Covenant (marriage agreement).
Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be MARRIED TO ANOTHER, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Matt 5:13 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Me: Christ fulfilled the law by his death and resurrection.
We must distinguish of what law we are talking about. The Old Covenant was the law of Moses.
Hi Jodi,
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
You: “with God” shows subordination. DISAGREE
Your word is definitely WITH you. You give a promise and as time goes on that promise which is your word stays WITH you. You give that promise to others and they know that it is a part of you, as you made it and you carrying it WITH you and they hold you to your word.
Your word that you give FOLLOWS you.John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Me: The Word was God because he was with God. John 1:1 starts of with “in the beginning was God”. This is primary. “and the Word was with God” shows supplementary and complimentary.
Hi All,
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/22-42.htm
Matt 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Isa 11:2 And the spirit (Eph 4:4: one spirit) of the YHWH shall rest upon him, the spirit of (1) wisdom and (2) understanding, (3) the spirit of counsel and (4) might, the (5) spirit of knowledge and of the (6) fear (reverence and awe) of the YHWH;
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the (7) seed (nature) of Abraham.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Me: The humanity in the holy spirit cried out to his father (6 & 7) above. Whenever Christ spoke to Father, it was his humanity in him. Whenever he spoke to us humans, it was his father speaking through him.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Romans 8:11 But if the SPIRIT of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
2 Cor 3:17 Now the LORD (KURIOS) IS THAT SPIRIT: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God (Father) raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man Christ, but by Jesus, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Me: Notice the Word preexisted all creation.
Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man…
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Me: Notice the Father through his Word made the body prepared for the Messiah.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Angel of the Lord
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_26.cfmExodus 3:2 And the angel of YHWH appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God (Exd 3:2-6 above), thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Me: The Word emptied himself of the body of a majestic angelic being and was made a little lower than angels. Yes angel here also means messenger. For the Word is the messenger of God.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Me: Now we know that the Messiah has a body like an angelic being but much higher
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