- This topic has 272 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
What is the truth and who alone offers sound doctrine?
The one born the messiah is the truth. How can you have truth if you believe no one was born the messiah and Lord. It does explain a lot right?
The wide path is wide because there is an almost infinte ways of untruth, whereas, the truth is one way, making it narrow.
- Nick said:
The Word was made flesh at the Jordan and Jesus Christ was sent into the world.
But when you read the small print, Nick clearly teaches that Jesus was not born the messiah or Lord despite being proclaimed by a messenger of God. Nick is wrong. Simple as that. And feelings don’t override facts.
T8…..”know you not, that you shall judges Angels”, in the resurection we are above the Angels, we are only (now) a “little” below the angels for the tasting of death , just as Jesus was also a little below the Angels also for the tasting of death, just as us , and if they are to worship Jesus they will also worship the Saint’s .
Because we will be “EXACTLY” as he is, in the resurection. And Jesus said to them, Rev 3:9, …..”Behold I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie, behold I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi All
T8 said:
Nick, here is the rub.
When I repeat the angel’s message about Jesus being born as the messiah, you say I lack the spirit of prophecy. By extension of that, you have to level that accusation against the angel in whom I merely quote. I didn’t invent this Nick. And let’s be real, you force anyone to choose to believe the angel or you and of course you lose right?
I agree with the Angel and T8, Nick you have another Gospel,gro g up and get with the program. God bless
Hi Anthony,
Yes. If your mind is bound to literalism you would think that.
But scripture is spiritual and prophetic.
Anthony…….So why was Jesus anointed twice then, seening you believe he already was at berth? The ANGEL was simply telling them that he was the one prophecied to be the MESSAIH, HE was not telling them about the process of his messiah ship. Nor that he already was the savior of mankind. Non of those things were done at his berth yet. Common sense should tell you that, Only a deluded mind could possibly think that. If you believe he was already a savior at berth then tell us one person he saved at berth?
You people put words in the text to force you beliefs, as nearly all christendom does. The baby Jesus was no more A MESSIAH then MOSES was at his berth. They both were later anointed to be Messiahs of God.
Moses said the LORD would raise up (FROM) among the tribes of Israel and prophet “LIKE HIM” .
WAS Moses born ANOINTED……..NO
WAS MOSES ANOINTED LATER….YES
WAS JESUS to be “like” Mosses……..YES
You can not find one scripture that shows a anointing took place before berth, prophesies always take place before things happen, but not the ANOINTINGS.
The Angel was simple telling them Jesus was the one destined to be the PROPHESIED MESSIAH OF GOD. Many prophecies concerning Jesus, did not happen at his berth.
Common sense should tell you if he hadn’t died yet for the sins of the world then he was not the saviour of the world until he did actually die, even though that was his destiny, it had to be fulfilled first. Why do you think Jesus said when he was about to die “it is finnished”, but you people preach him as already doing it at berth. FALSE TEACHINGS.
Understanding who he was to be is one thing, but actually doing and being it is quite another. It would be like if an angel said to us, at the berth of ABRAHAM LINCOLN , born unto you “this day” is a great president of the United States, would you think he already was at his berth the President?
God predicted king CYRUS, 200 years before his berth and what he would do, do you think that happened at his berth, even though that was his prophesied destiny. Was he a king at berth or did he become a king?
Here again shows the mentality of those who have the spirit of God, and those who arn’t being lead by the spirit of truth from God. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi All
Jesus was always the Christ.
The word “Christ” simply means “anointed.” Its usage in the Greek Scriptures indicates that the person was anointed by God to fulfill an office or a particular purpose. Anyone who was anointed for a specific purpose was a form of a christos or christ (small “c”) in the biblical sense. In Hebrew the term would be mashiach or “messiah.” In the Old Testament a variety of anointings took place. Each person anointed was a mashiach. The Greek of the New Testament uses the word messias twice, a transliteration of mashiach. The term “Christ” (Christos in Greek) is a translationof the Hebrew word mashiach, both of which mean “anointed.” The word Christ means Messiah and the words can be used interchangeably. This is stated specifically in the Gospel of John where he makes editorial comments for the reader:
“He first finds his own brother Simon, and says unto him, ‘We have found the Messias,’ which is, being interpreted, the Christ[Messiah]. And he brought him to Jesus.” John 1:41–42
Gene you said we shall judge the Angels , that true, but are you trying to make out that the Angle lied about the baby, Jesus Christ. He is the Messiah the prophets prophesied about. The Anointed
His baptismal was a sign for the nation of Israel. John the Baptist new this, He saw the Dove above His head. It’s just that simple!
God bless
Hi All
And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. And inspired by the Spirit he came into the temple and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said, “Lord, now let your servant depart in peace, according to your word for mine eyes have seen Your salvation. (Luke 2:26-30).
Hi Anthony,
Yes Simeon had the Spirit of prophecy.
If you are to grasp the prophetic word you need it too.
Anthony…… I never tried to make out the ANGEL GABRIEL LIED, WHAT i was saying is that the angel was telling that Jesus was the prophesied messiah to come. Your twisting my words. Jesus was God’s salvation for mankind. No one is denying that, but that had not happened at the time of his berth. Quite trying to twist what we are saying.
Deal with this question……was Jesus anointed twice or once, and then tell us was he baptized and recieved the anointing of the holy spirit at his batizem by JOHN at the Jordan river, or was he already anointed before then as the Messiah,
Any one who saw Moses at his berth could have also said he had seen The LORD’S salvation of Israel even in that day, but it did not happen till it happened, So Jesus was GODS chosen one for SALVATION for the sins of the world, that was his destiny , he was not a born MESSIAH , HE BECAME THE MESSIAH WHEN God put his HOLY SPIRIT ON HIM AT T H E JORDAN RIVER, FROM THAT POINT ONE HE WAS THE MESSIAH OF GOD. Before that, he was the son of God, by God impregnating His mother Mary, but was not a anointed son until he was anointed at the Jordan river then he became the CHRISTO’S OF GOD. At that point the SPIRIT BEGAN TO LEAD HIM, just as scripture shows, you can’t find him being lead by the anointing spirit till after he was anointed by God with his holy spirit.
If this is not true then please show us one scripture that say he was lead by the spirit of God , before his anointing at the Jordan river.
Peace and love to you and yours ……….gene
Hi Anthony,
What John saw was a sign FOR THE NATION OF ISRAEL.?
Then why did THE NATION OF ISRAEL not see it??
Anthony…..when Simons brother told him they had found d the messiah, Jesus had been anointed by John the baptist, it was after that he c told him they had found the messiah, which was spoken of by the prophets, the Messiah they all were looking for to come as the prophets ad prophecied . Show any scripture that references Jesus as the Messiah before his anointing at the Jordan river. No one is recorded calling Jesus the messiah before his baptizm by John.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Hi t8,
ME: When a human says “my soul”, according to biblical definition that should represent the unique flesh that God created for a human, as opposed to a frog, or a snake.
YOU: My soul suggests something I have. So what is the MY that says MY soul?
And it appears that souls inhabit a place under the throne of God and they can cry out and even be clothed.
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.…
So it seems that those who were killed / slain exist as souls who are aware and in a state of rest while waiting for the plan of God to complete. You would have to disagree with this as it opposes your view.
ME: Can you clarify t8, as you have said if I am not mistaken that to be present with the Lord is to not have a body at all, but here you seem to argue that they had a body that could be clothed?
Let’s look at what scriptures say regarding SOUL. What you will see is MY SOUL and MY LIFE are used interchangeably. What you read in regards to the soul is that it goes to the grave, it DIES. The soul goes to the pit, it goes to the ground and becomes dust. You are either ALIVE or you are DEAD. When you are dead you are not ALIVE. Those that sleep in the dust are DEAD, they AWAKE to have LIFE, to be ALIVE. You can only be conscious, able to think when you are ALIVE. When you are dead you have no thoughts. This is exactly what we are told in scripture. After reading these t8 we can discuss the passage in Revelation where John received a message in a vision.
Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt thou suffer thy holy one to see corruption.
Psalms 6: 4 Return, O LORD, deliver MY SOUL: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake
Psalm 30:3 O Jehovah, thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol; Thou hast KEPT me ALIVE, that I should not go down to the pit.
Psalm 6:5 For IN DEATH there is no remembrance of thee: IN SHEOL who shall give thee thanks?
Pslams 30: 9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the DUST praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
Psalms 3: 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Genesis 12:13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul SHALL LIVE because of thee.
My soul shall LIVE as opposed to it shall DIE.
Genesis 19: 20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
Psalms 7: 1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy:) 5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honor in the dust. Selah.
Let’s NOT FORGET t8, that David was a prophet, he knew the future, he spoke the Word of God. He revealed TRUTH and wisdom. When he said MY SOUL will not be left in sheol, in the grave, in the pit, in the ground as DUST, he was speaking of being resurrection one day, where he would go from DEATH to being ALIVE again.
When we see the words “my soul” that is the same as “my life”. God gives life and our life can be taken away, same as saying our soul is taken away. What is taken away? Being ALIVE is taken from us.
Redefining the soul against the scripture’s definition and then with that false definition saying that it GOES ON to actually be ALIVE after you have DIED, you then destroy the bible’s definition to the words LIFE, DEATH, and ALIVE also. WHAT A MESS.
Hi t8,
You have chosen to take John’s Vision in Revelation to support that a soul is conscious after death which speaks against many other passages. You want to believe that what John saw was actually occurring exactly how he saw it, it was not a theatrical vision containing a message, but it was literal, something occurring actually at that time, is what you are saying.
So by this do you want to tell us that John when he saw the white horse wearing a crown going about conquering, he was seeing not a theatrical vision but we are to believe that there REALLY is a white horse wearing a crown going about conquering?
John saw PEOPLE, humans with their bodies, he saw their mouths move bringing forth crying that he heard, and maybe he saw some tears coming out of their eyes too, he saw people being clothed with white robes, men considered righteous for remaining in Christ even after being tortured and put to death. He was not seeing some spirit souls actually crying and speaking in that present time. Just like the white horse with a crown was not actually real neither was him seeing dead people crying and receiving white robes real.
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Jesus returns to earth to set up God’s kingdom, at his second coming the dead in Christ are MADE ALIVE again. They receive life in a body that cannot sin, they had washed their robes white from the blood of the Lamb and thus were worthy to obtain the promise, an imperishable body, where they see Christ as he is as they are to be made as he is.
“They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat”
The above was not something they were experiencing after they had died. They weren’t crying after they died, they were in the dust of the ground. They hungered and cried before they died. Many were tortured as they remained faithful to Christ.
Such was their LAST conscious moment, being striped naked, being hungry, battered and beaten, in tears brought to a painful death, all the while keeping their faith in the name of the Lord. Their next conscious moment is meeting Christ in the air with a perfected body at his second coming, where they will be rulers and judges with Christ, no longer crying or hungry, but rather filled with the fountain of living waters.
Hi t8,
YOU:He emptied himself and came in the flesh and came to serve. This does not deny who or what he is, but that he was willing to become lower for a time and be born into this world, share in flesh, to suffer alongside us, and to bring us with him into the presence of God. Now he is back in the glory he had with God before the cosmos. He is the reigning king who will return to complete the promise of all being under his feet at which time he can give it back to God so God can dwell in all.
ME: The HE who emptied himself t8 is Jesus after he had been anointed with the full measure of the Spirit upon his baptism, sent out performing miracles. He had received all the powers of God’s Spirit, but he emptied himself, he said that he could do nothing of himself, he gave ALL the credit to God, though he was a god, having all the powers of God, he considered himself a servant, never using those powers for himself.
Do you see the difference?
YOU say Jesus is awesome because he was a pre-existing son and became a man to save us from our sins.
Me, I say Jesus came in the flesh and was anointed with God’s Spirit to a measure that made him a god, full of power, but he did not use any of those powers for himself, he denied the human will, he conquered it, and stayed faithful to the one and only true God. His biggest test was going to the cross, where he could have used the powers he was given to save himself from death, but he did not, he had faith in God’s plan that God would raise him from being dead and give him LIFE AGAIN.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
if Jesus was a pre-existing immortal son that became a man, how can we really be asked to have the same mind as he did?
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
God did not exalt Jesus because he was a pre-existing son who became a man and then was a servant to God. God exalted him because he was a man who God anointed with His Spirit giving him all His powers, and he did not use any of them to serve his own will but he only served God’s will.
WHO that was in the form of God is not talking about a pre-existing son, but Jesus who had been anointed. The anointed human in the flesh saw himself having all of God’s powers equal to God, but HE made himself of no reputation, he took on the form of a servant, though he could have been a god, seen as a god by the people with all his great works. declared Don’t you know the history given to us in the bible t8? Where God gave smaller measures of His Spirit to men and they turned and glorified themselves and declared themselves as being a god?? Jesus did no such thing, he did not build a high tower and ask people to worship him. He declared the truth, that he was doing nothing of himself, that it all came through God’s Spirit that was upon him. HE who humbled himself was not a pre-existing son becoming a man, he who humbled himself was a human having been given all the powers of God’s Spirit living in him.
Jesus is not back in his glory t8, the glory that Jesus spoke of was the glory that God had predestined him to have that was with God in the beginning, it was the entire reason why God made the earth which was to bring human beings into righteousness and eternal life. The anointing of Jesus at his baptism was a call to bring him to fulfill all righteousness, all righteousness occurs through God giving His Spirit to man to a measure that works perfection, and thus worthy of eternal life. Such is obviously true because Jesus was raised from the dead of the seed of David, he is still called the Son of man, he is returning as the Son of man, the offspring of David. The glory that he received was to be firstborn of the dead, the first of many. He is called the firstborn of many brethren. When he was raised from the dead he became the FIRST human to have eternal life, and when he returns he will make many brothers and sisters be just as he is, an eternal HUMAN child of God.
Your view of Philippians 2 is just so wrong, you destroy the Gospel with it.
Jesus reads from Isaiah and declares that he is the Christ, from his baptism where the Spirit descended upon him in full measure. Just after receiving the Spirit he was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested. This is when HE HUMBLED himself. He likewise humbled himself when he went to the cross. He did not give in, he followed God’s will. He had all the power to make himself food, he HUNGERED, but instead He lived by the Spirit of the Lord that was in him, and did not live according to the desires of the flesh. After his testing he read from Isaiah declaring that he was the CHRIST, man anointed. He stated his purpose, to be sent out into the world to declare the word of God, heal, set captives free, bring light to the Gentiles, fulfill God’s plan, fulfilling righteousness in a human that would bring eternal life to himself and his brothers and sisters.
The message and truth of Jesus the Christ, is about a human being anointed with God’s Spirit t8, who THEN humbled himself and went to the cross.
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Hi Anthony,
YOU:And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he should not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. And inspired by the Spirit he came into the temple and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the law, he took him up in his arms and blessed God and said, “Lord, now let your servant depart in peace, according to your word for mine eyes have seen Your salvation. (Luke 2:26-30).
ME: Don’t forget the next verse, 31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations: 32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel.”
Isaiah 42:1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations. 2 He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets. 3 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice; 4 he will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his teaching the islands will put their hope.” 5 This is what God the LORD says— the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out, who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it, who gives breath to its people, and life to those who walk on it: 6 “I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7 to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. 8 “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols. 9 See, the former things have taken place, and new things I declare; before they spring into being I announce them to you.”
BEFORE they spring forth, just like God declared, so did the angel and Simeon.
Matthew 3:5 And Jesus answering said unto him,Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, BECAUSE he hath anointed me (MADE ME CHRISTOS) to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jesus received the Spirit without measure upon his baptism, then he was SENT out into the world speaking the words of God. Simeon KNEW PROPHECY, he held the infant Jesus up KNOWING prophecy, and he declared seeing God’s salvation knowing what this child was going to accomplish, the fulfillment of Isaiah 42. The child would grow to be a servant who God would be well pleased with and He would anoint him with His Spirit calling him to righteousness to bring light to the world.
To ALL,
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is MY FLESH, which I will give for the life of the world
John 3:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL of grace and truth.
Luke 4:1 And Jesus being FULL of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,..14 And Jesus returned IN THE POWER of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. …18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel..
The WORD of God was Spoken by the prophet Isaiah, that word BECAME FLESH upon the baptism of Jesus when the Spirit descended upon him. He BECAME the living bread from heaven, that was called into righteousness, who would be perfected through the Spirit leading him, and thus be the perfect sacrifice to bring life to the world. Upon his baptism receiving the fullness of the Spirit, being sent out in the POWER of the Spirit, he was seen in his glory, the ONLY BEGOTTEN of the Father FILLED with grace and truth.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
