- This topic has 272 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Hi Jodi,
Salvation is a gift.
Repentance is given.
The Spirit is given to the obedient.
Men are born helplessly entrapped inheriting death.
The rest is of your intellect .Understanding and knowledge can just be vanity.
Hi T8,
Indeed beware of the demonic spirit of divination.
It masquerades as the Holy Spirit being of religion, but serves men. acts 16.16
Hi Jodi,
Eph 1.13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-having also believed,
you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit of promise, Who is given as a pledge of our inheritance,
with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
2cor 1.21
Now He Who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, Who also sealed us and gave us
the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
The anointing Spirit is GIVEN to the hearts of the repentant and obedient now .
Hi t8,
YOU:Paul expressed his desire which was to be away from the body and be PRESENT with the Lord.
ME: Paul’s desire was to be away from the MORTAL body that brings temptation and sin. He spoke clearly in many passages about his desire to be CLOTHED WITH an immortal BODY having eternal life.
Romons 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in THIS tabernacle DO GROAN, being burdened: NOT FOR that we would be UNCLOTHED, BUT CLOTHED upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Hebrews 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Mortals fear death, it is bondage, man is drawn to serve the flesh out of fear of death. The fact that our flesh is weak through hunger and needs food in order to live puts us in bondage to serve our flesh, where temptation is drawn to sin, to steal, to lie, to even murder in order to acquire food to feed ourselves and our family.
PAUL DESIRED NOT to be UNCLOTHED t8, but CLOTHED, changed, where mortality is swallowed up into life, with a body that is no longer weak, but has power, that no longer has dishonor but honor, that is no longer mortal able to be tempted but is immortal incapable of sin. When he spoke about being ABSENT from “the body” he was referencing a specific body, the one he currently dwelt in that he said he mortified the sinful deeds he had committed in. To be absent from THAT body would make him FREE from SIN, and ever present with the Lord as he would have a body of power, glory, and eternal life, one incapable of missing God’s mark. Sin=death, righteousness= life. Jesus had received a measure of the Spirit that even though he was in a mortal weak body that could tempt, he was able to overcome temptation and follow God’s will. His righteousness caused through a full measure of God’s Spirit enabling him to BECOME perfected and not give in to any temptation, made him deserving of eternal life, thus why God raised him from the dead, and wouldn’t even allow his righteous body to see decay, but instead have it quickened into eternal life.
Paul’s HOPE, his desire was for his body to be changed from being clothed with mortality to being clothed with immortality, having eternal life, where he could no longer sin, but be perfectly faithful to God, as Jesus was.
That’s right Jodi. But Paul didn’t hint of soul sleep or soul death between this body and the next. I look at it like this. I very much look forward to being with the Lord that in my past, I sort of wanted to die. This is true because God gave me a vision of Paradise that was so wonderful, I really didn’t want to be here on Earth as it was pitiful in comparison. I truly felt like Paul. But if I knew that I would not exist for many years, then my desire would be to live as long as possible as it would be better than not existing at all. That said, if I was going to be present with the Lord when I die, then I too wanted to die. Only because God is that awesome.
Hi T8,
Indeed beware of the demonic spirit of divination.
It masquerades as the Holy Spirit being of religion, but serves men. acts 16.16
Yes Nick. Sometimes it goes around preaching a repetitive message of salvation that at first sounds right, but upon repetition, one realises that a spirit is trying to discredit the message and those with the true message. Sometimes we see this in politics where some far left people went to Trump rallies and did despicable things so the right would look bad.There is probably a name for this kind of deception. Perhaps you know of a term for it? In religion, there are many men who come saying Jesus is the Christ, but they deceive many.
Hi t8,
In your heart you know you are right.
But the Spirit in others keep causing you nagging doubts.
So you cast around in desperation for spiritual reasons why they must be wrong.
There is a better approach. Stop talking and listen to the Spirit.
Hi Jodi,
The nobleman went away to receive a kingdom and gave his servants a Mina each to make him a profit.
Likewise, Jesus, the Son of God gives the Spirit to his brothers to profit that eternal kingdom.
The very least they could do was to put the investment in the spiritual bank.
Ask seek and knock are commands to build the investment.
The supermarket of grace is open.
2 Peter 1.2
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus, our lord;
seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and
godliness, through the true knowledge of Him Who called us by His own glory
and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent
promises, in order that by them you may become partakers of the divine
nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.
Now for this reason also applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence,
and in your moral excellence, knowledge; and in your knowledge, self control,
and in your self control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness;
and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, Christian love.
To All,
Scripture tells us clearly that those in Christ are to be clothed with a body that cannot be hurt by the second death, they receive a body of power, glory, that is immortal for an eternity.
We even have this passage that talks about when a person in Christ meets the Lord.
<div id=”v-18″ class=”verse font-helvetica”>1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.</div>
<div></div>
<div>Do all these NOT have a body?? ABSOLUTELY NOT, THEY HAVE a BODY, they have been CLOTHED with an IMMORTAL body, and with that BODY they MEET the LORD and they shall EVER BE WITH the Lord. </div>
Paul’s words in 1 Thess were to bring comfort, it was the hope of Paul to be changed from a mortal body that lives in weakness and temptation and be clothed with a body no longer able to sin or die.When Paul spoke of desiring to be absent from “the body” he was talking about the body that he was in, the body that was weak and could tempt. Truth is not given when you manipulate scripture, when you do not apply Paul’s words WITH Paul’s words, God’s words with God’s words, but instead match it perfectly to the ideas of Greek philosophers who the so called “early church fathers” used to create Christian doctrine.
Apply Paul’s clear words with Paul’s words, nowhere do we find Paul saying that his desire was to be without a body at all, we have multiple scriptures telling us that Paul’s desire was to be clothed with an imperishable body.
Paul spoke clearly that there was one body, the mortal weak body able to die, that he wanted to be swallowed up into life.
2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Paul never says that one must have NO BODY at all to be present with the Lord, on the contrary we are told directly by Paul, that when we are to be EVER PRESENT with the Lord WE HAVE a BODY, we have been CLOTHED with an incorruptible body.
To All…….Jodi is apsolutely right in this, PAUL said, “we hope for the resurection that will wittness the redemption of OUR BODIES.” How plain, how clear, how simple, and yet the teachers of , ” Greek mystery religious concepts” deny this truth., as they do about Jesus not being resurected with the body he now has. Simply blind guides leading the blind, but thanks be to God there are some who do hold to the truth of God.
Peace and love to you all and yours. …….gene
Good Morning t8,
I posted again before I reloaded the page so I did not see all the posts after my one from yesterday, otherwise I would have responded to what you said after me first before the one I just posted.
You:That’s right Jodi. But Paul didn’t hint of soul sleep or soul death between this body and the next. I look at it like this. I very much look forward to being with the Lord that in my past, I sort of wanted to die. This is true because God gave me a vision of Paradise that was so wonderful, I really didn’t want to be here on Earth as it was pitiful in comparison. I truly felt like Paul. But if I knew that I would not exist for many years, then my desire would be to live as long as possible as it would be better than not existing at all. That said, if I was going to be present with the Lord when I die, then I too wanted to die. Only because God is that awesome.
ME: t8 let’s say that when you die you are truly dead, you have no thoughts, you have no consciousness, just like David and Solomon said. This means that you no longer exist in TIME, you have NO CLUE how much time is passing by while you are dead .
When you die t8 your last conscious moment to your next conscious moment is meeting Christ in the air. It will seem instantaneous for you, from the moment that you took your last breath to when you are meeting Christ in your eternal body. Those in Christ should not fear death, because they have faith that as God raised Jesus from the dead, we too shall be raised from the dead. This is what we are told t8, people are not raised from having no body, but they are being raised from being DEAD to being ALIVE again.
When I think about my own death, whether I get a terminal illness and have months or weeks of time to think about it, or I find myself in some sort of accident where I only have a few seconds, I know that I am going to meet the Lord, it will seem for me like no time at all has past while I am dead. The only thing that is difficult is thinking about those that will be living while I am sleeping the sleep of death, and how I will not be with them, I will miss moments of their life, and they will miss me not being in their life, however after that thought I then think on the fact that God will be with them and His will is being carried out, of which I have great faith in, and I go back to knowing that it will seem instantaneous for me and not only will I meet the Lord but I will be also with family and fellow brethren.
“The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing.” The living miss the dead while they are dead, but the dead know nothing, they go from death into life, they never miss a soul. Either way t8 your belief or my belief the living are left to miss the dead. What does it matter to the dead if they are actually dead, they know nothing? You say it matters to you while you are living, because if you know you go to be with the Lord when your body dies, you don’t care if you die. However if what I say is true it is the same as you say, you also do not care if you die, because you know that for you it is as if you immediately go to meet the Lord. The real difference to our belief is that you believe people don’t actually die, only their body dies, and people depending on when their body dies from when Christ returns may go thousands of years living without a body, or maybe they will go just one day. I say the dead all know nothing and from their last breath to their next conscious moment they are receiving their body of glory, and are meeting the Lord, seeing him as he is because they are as he is. You leave us to wonder and spend thoughts on what it would be like to live without a body and how long we will wait for a new body. You say we are with Jesus when we die, he has his body of glory but we don’t have a body at all, and some are left waiting thousands of years to receive it. Weird. Our hope is to rise from the dead and receive a body that he has, not go hang out with Jesus without a body. My understanding is there is NO WAITING to receive a glorious body, as the dead know nothing but pass from death into life receiving their glorious body.
Hi Jodi,
Ecc8.16-9.1
When I gave my heart to know wisdom and to see the task which has been done on the earth,
(even though one should never sleep day and night) and I saw every work of God, I concluded
that man cannot discover the work which has been done under the sun. Even though man
should seek laboriously, he will not discover; and though the wise man should say’ I know’
he cannot discover.
For I have taken all this to my heart and explain it that righteous men, wise men,and their deeds
are in the hand of God. Man does not know whether it will be love or hatred; anything awaits him.
Ecc 9.5
For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything,
Context tells us that it is impossible to understand completely the ways of God but this does not mean that the dead are generally unaware of all things.
Rather that they cannot KNOW their future in the way men do.
Sheol and Hades have been revealed.
Hi Gene,
You keep telling us how Jodi is so right about this or that.
What you mean is that your ideas align with hers.
But you could both be deceived.
ME: t8 let’s say that when you die you are truly dead, you have no thoughts, you have no consciousness, just like David and Solomon said. This means that you no longer exist in TIME, you have NO CLUE how much time is passing by while you are dead .
When you die t8 your last conscious moment to your next conscious moment is meeting Christ in the air. It will seem instantaneous for you, from the moment that you took your last breath to when you are meeting Christ in your eternal body. Those in Christ should not fear death, because they have faith that as God raised Jesus from the dead, we too shall be raised from the dead. This is what we are told t8, people are not raised from having no body, but they are being raised from being DEAD to being ALIVE again.
Correct and I myself has stated this. Regardless, it will be instant. But the point is you have no proof that it all happens at the same time and the dead are synced with the living in the same time line. Further, You talk about there being no time right? Well to assume that time passes when we enter no time is an oxymoron. It could be that no matter what, entering the eternal realm cannot be linear like the timeline we are subject to. All we really have to make decisions on this is scripture and our own experience with God and the things of him which is part our faith being our testimony.
We are told in scripture in no uncertain terms that the dead shall rise first and you seem to teach that it is all at the same time. And if the dead rise first, then by how much time ahead are they risen? Again, no figure is given and can we compare time on Earth with the realm of the dead and also Heaven? But we are told about the graves being opened as early as the ascension of Jesus Christ the first to be born from the dead. We who are alive and remain will be second to rise so to speak.
Hi Jodi,
Jesus showed us Hades
Lk 16.23
And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried out and said,
’Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water,
and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame’
T8……what Jodi meant is when you die the cognisity of time ceases to “you” , she did not mean time ceased for ever thing else, when you thoughts stop, you have no concious awareness of time at all. Have you ever been operated on., I had an operation that lasted for three hours once, when I woke up I ask the nurse, when they were going to operate, she smiled and said they operated already and you have been out for three hour and a half hours. I had no awareness of the passing of time. That is what happens when we die, our throughts parish , we are unable to be aware of any time passing, just as I was when I was unconcious . If they would have kept me out for a moth, or a year, our a thousand years, I still would not have been aware of any time passing. But just because I was unaware of time passing, dosen”t mean time itself had stopped.
When Adam is resurected and brought back to life he would not know if a second of time past, his last thoughts will be his first thoughts, when he is resurected back to life again. Thats what Jodi meant.
All the resurected will not have noticed a single day that passed after the died, why because their “thoughts” parished when they died. Time means nothing to the dead, only to the living. “For we know we shall die but the dead know nothing”.
Lets not kid ourselves, it is apsolutely crucial we attain unto the resurection from the dead, or time will never mean nothing again to us after we die.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
