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Hi GB,
So he spoke of satan but that showed his ignorance and the influence of his culture?
You call that support for the one inspired by God who calls himself the truth??Hi GB,
These are the words of Jesus Christ.
They are words given to him by God as you say.Matthew 12:26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?Why do you not accept them as truth?
Nick…. In fact how could Satan cast out Satan if Satan was one being as you suppose he is. Can He do the same thing at once or is it possible there are lots of Satan's and as a result they could cast out each other. So who are all the Satan's then, They are the people themselves. Jesus was simply responding to their beliefs in devils and Satan Not that he believed in them at all.
Hi GB,
Perhaps you should discuss such with the one you call your master.
He said it and you should believe it.Nick….well, then please explain it to us then, If you know what he meant. How can Satan cast out Satan give us your explanation. To believe without understanding is stupidity and I really don't think my master wants me to believe that way, maybe yours does.
peace……..gene
Hi GB,
The Adversary and those who work for him in his name are united and effective against righteousness.
Any division in that kingdom means it must fall and the righteousness of God among men will defeat it.Newton did not understand this kingdom and you should not support him against Jesus
Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 26 2008,17:42)
The first question from WJ that he has been waiting for me to answer was,1. How do you explain that the Greek shows the evil spirits doing the action as LU has pointed out.
To answer,
I do believe that it was the evil spirits that were doing the action. It is the identity of the evil spirits that we have a disagreement with. While your view of evil spirits mirrors that of the pagans, my understanding of evil spirits I believe keeps in better line with scripture, reflects quite clearly the reality of life, and as well aligns perfectly with the recent knowledge God has given us regarding the human brain and body.
As God did inflict King Neb. to act crazy, and as God said He would inflict and possess people with such curses as confusion of mind and madness and that such mental illnesses would be passed down genetically from one generation to the next, I can easily see how in the New Testament evil spirits or demons ‘devine powers’ would obviously represent that of YHWH’s.
OK, since you believe the “evil spirits” which you say is “madness or mental illness” did the action, then tell me how “madness or mental illness” can leave on its own at Yeshua’s command and enter the swine and cause them to commit suicide?Jodi the word “devils” in Matt 8:28-33 is “daimon” which is a masculine/feminine noun and which in the Greek means…
1) a god, a goddess
a) an inferior deity, whether good or bad
2) in the NT, an evil spiritThere is nothing in the definition that even remotely implies madness, or a disease.
Listen closely to this verse…
The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
It is the demons with the definite article (not the man) that begs Yeshua to send them into the pigs.
How can a disease or madness request this? Why didn’t the writer Matthew or Yeshua indicate what you say and not correct the man? Did Yeshua (who obviously would have known if what you say is true) just play along and let the Disciples and the people believe falsely?
I don’t think so. Neither Yeshua nor the Apostles ever defines the evil spirits or demons as you say.
OK, so what about these questions?
2. When Yeshua was tempted by satan, was it his unclean spirit or old man or old nature in him that he was having a conversation with? Did he lead himself to the pinnacle and quote to himself the scriptures? Was he telling his old nature that it was to worship God and him only shall he serve? Was the evil spirit cast out of him or was he healed?
3. Can you show me “one” scripture in Paul’s, Peter or John’s writings that says the old man or old nature of man or the flesh of man is the “Daimonia”?
4. Can you give us some credible references for your belief that evil spirits or demons are illnesses or sicknesses or madness?
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 27 2008,17:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2008,22:06) Hi GB,
Did Jesus not understand mental health?
Nick,If Jesus believed in the Old Testament and the God of the Old Testament then he would define the demons, 'devine powers' as coming from God. What he would not do would be to define the demons according to the Greeks, which is what the RCC did, and is what the OT directly tells us were beings that did not exist.
JodiBut Jesus never defined the demons as you say.
Jesus never equated the “evil spirits”, or “demons” as being sickness and disease but in fact spoke of a kingdom of satan that cannot be divided against itself.
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Aug. 28 2008,02:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 26 2008,23:35) Hi GB,
So the modern man knows far more about mental illness than Jesus Christ?
I have books 6 inches thick about mental illness and none can say what causes it.I prefer the teachings of Jesus Christ and so should you.
So Nick, SOME of the mental illnesses doctors and scientist have yet to find the exact cause, you believe must then represent people who are being possessed by demons?Nick how old are those books that you have?
Gene and I prefer not to deny the Old Testament and understand Jesus through what YHWH specifically tells us in it.
Those demon possessed in the New Testament were often said to be dumb. God specifically tells us that it is BY Him that people are caused to be dumb. The Old Testament also specifically tells us that there are not false gods or demons that can do such things. The Old Testament NEVER even hints at the idea that beings against God, such as fallen angels, or anything of the like, exist and are able to continue using YHWH's powers.
Nick, when you do not use the knowledge given in the Old Testament to understand the New, you are not just understanding the New Testament from a limited perspective, but from a completely false one.
It is really not a big surprise that you and the majority of Christians out there do not understand this. The majority of the Israelites constantly denied the truth and feared false gods and demons as well.
YHWH says that it is by Him and His powers that the deaf, dumb, mute and blind are stricken. When you believe Nick that these powers can come from another being, plain and simple, you are believing in false gods.
Nick, what does that say, if you choose to believe in false gods?
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Aug. 28 2008,02:23)
Nick, when you do not use the knowledge given in the Old Testament to understand the New, you are not just understanding the New Testament from a limited perspective, but from a completely false one.The OT does not interpret the NT. The NT interprets the OT and in fact the OT is revealed in the New.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 28 2008,06:49) Hi GB,
If Jesus is the truth and his teachings never pass
and you think you know more than him
how should we regard you?Was he of superstition but your teachings are pure?
Turn back from your deception and show respect for the truth of God that you say was revealed in the Son.
NHAmen!
Nick…..you and WJ ignorance is you don't understand what the meaning of Spirit is. You keep thinking spirits are beings of some kind when in fact they are intellects expressed through words. And good and evil intellects are everywhere, and while they do and can control our behavior, the concept of these intellects as separate individuals jumping in and out of people is analogously to these intellects in the minds of people.
If one goes to a porn movie He is opening the door of his mind and letting in these intellects which will effect his behavior into himself. He is not letting in creators of some kind that can at their own will jump in and out of people.
Paul said (SOW) to the Spirit (of God ) and you shall reap life , but if you (SOW) the Flesh you shall reap death. So who is doing it some demon creature or the person Himself. It is the person himself doing it when he is lead astray by his (OWN) LUSTS, not some devils lust jumping into him. Peter was a Satan because He did not understand the things of GOD and was acting as an adversary to Jesus, it was not some other being doing it, it was Peter Himself. This whole concept of demons and devils come from pagan origins and suspicions. Most was because people of that day did not understand mental illness, and WJ (madness) is and was an expression of mental illnesses. IMO
To ALl…….the whole concept of devils and demons jumping in and out of people as some creature is pure trash. Good and Evil are intellects (SPIRITS) and they are everywhere the is life, When we are drawn by our lusts to the evil and learn from it, it will effect our behavior , It doesn't take some being to cause it, the whole world is full of sin it is everywhere in our homes, schools, churches, governments, movies, television, radio, advertisements. video games, book, magazines, its everywhere life is. John said all thats in the world , the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes , the pride of life are (FROM) the world, Not some demons or devils of some kind, but (THE WORLD). Spirit is simple INTELLECT (expressed through WORDS) and these effect us and cause us to do the things we do, not some creature jumping in and out of us. But clean and unclean intellects, so we need to sow to the clean and we will think clean , for there is nothing that have overtaken you that is not (COMMON) to man. So when you are lead away from the right way don't say the devil made me do it , no your wrong thinking did it.
If we through the SPIRIT of GOD put to death the deeds of the FLESH we shall live . The GRACE OF GOD puts within us the POWER to put the Flesh to death. For you are saved by GRACE and that (NOT) of YOURSELF it is a gift of GOD. All who do not the Will of GOD are Devils and Satan's themselves not some spooky creature going around jumping in and out of people. Sin is the result of unclean spirit or unclean intellect expressed in words and is everywhere in this world. All who engage in it are devils and SATAN'S. IMO
peace to all……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 30 2008,03:53) Nick…..you and WJ ignorance is you don't understand what the meaning of Spirit is. You keep thinking spirits are beings of some kind when in fact they are intellects expressed through words. And good and evil intellects are everywhere, and while they do and can control our behavior, the concept of these intellects as separate individuals jumping in and out of people is analogously to these intellects in the minds of people. If one goes to a porn movie He is opening the door of his mind and letting in these intellects which will effect his behavior into himself. He is not letting in creators of some kind that can at their own will jump in and out of people.
Paul said (SOW) to the Spirit (of God ) and you shall reap life , but if you (SOW) the Flesh you shall reap death. So who is doing it some demon creature or the person Himself. It is the person himself doing it when he is lead astray by his (OWN) LUSTS, not some devils lust jumping into him. Peter was a Satan because He did not understand the things of GOD and was acting as an adversary to Jesus, it was not some other being doing it, it was Peter Himself. This whole concept of demons and devils come from pagan origins and suspicions. Most was because people of that day did not understand mental illness, and WJ (madness) is and was an expression of mental illnesses. IMO
GBOK since you think you know more than Yeshua who spoke to these evil spirits and they spoke to him. Then why don't you answer these questions.
2. When Yeshua was tempted by satan, was it his unclean spirit or old man or old nature in him that he was having a conversation with? Did he lead himself to the pinnacle and quote to himself the scriptures? Was he telling his old nature that it was to worship God and him only shall he serve? Was the evil spirit cast out of him or was he healed?
3. Can you show me “one” scripture in Paul’s, Peter or John’s writings that says the old man or old nature of man or the flesh of man is the “Daimonia”?
4. Can you give us some credible references for your belief that evil spirits or demons are illnesses or sicknesses or madness?
Yeshua was not playing a game with peoples minds. You say the problem is the word spirit and they are not actual beings.
God is a Spirit and he is a being. Angels are Spirits and they are beings.
Humans are Spirits and they are beings.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 30 2008,12:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 30 2008,03:53) Nick…..you and WJ ignorance is you don't understand what the meaning of Spirit is. You keep thinking spirits are beings of some kind when in fact they are intellects expressed through words. And good and evil intellects are everywhere, and while they do and can control our behavior, the concept of these intellects as separate individuals jumping in and out of people is analogously to these intellects in the minds of people. If one goes to a porn movie He is opening the door of his mind and letting in these intellects which will effect his behavior into himself. He is not letting in creators of some kind that can at their own will jump in and out of people.
Paul said (SOW) to the Spirit (of God ) and you shall reap life , but if you (SOW) the Flesh you shall reap death. So who is doing it some demon creature or the person Himself. It is the person himself doing it when he is lead astray by his (OWN) LUSTS, not some devils lust jumping into him. Peter was a Satan because He did not understand the things of GOD and was acting as an adversary to Jesus, it was not some other being doing it, it was Peter Himself. This whole concept of demons and devils come from pagan origins and suspicions. Most was because people of that day did not understand mental illness, and WJ (madness) is and was an expression of mental illnesses. IMO
GBOK since you think you know more than Yeshua who spoke to these evil spirits and they spoke to him. Then why don't you answer these questions.
2. When Yeshua was tempted by satan, was it his unclean spirit or old man or old nature in him that he was having a conversation with? Did he lead himself to the pinnacle and quote to himself the scriptures? Was he telling his old nature that it was to worship God and him only shall he serve? Was the evil spirit cast out of him or was he healed?
3. Can you show me “one” scripture in Paul’s, Peter or John’s writings that says the old man or old nature of man or the flesh of man is the “Daimonia”?
4. Can you give us some credible references for your belief that evil spirits or demons are illnesses or sicknesses or madness?
Yeshua was not playing a game with peoples minds. You say the problem is the word spirit and they are not actual beings.
God is a Spirit and he is a being. Angels are Spirits and they are beings.
Humans are Spirits and they are beings.
WJ
THey haven't given a str8 answer to your 2nd question yet
….review this thread..this has come up before and they keep ducking it..WJ….when did is say i know more the Jesus did, you are again expressing the spirit of the accuser as Nick does at times. I will try to answer you questions. Let me start with Jesus and His experience with the so-called devil, First it's not just unclean spirits (intellects) that are Evil, but many spirits (intellects) are , the spirit of greed, or covertness, all lusts are adversarial Spirits (intellects) of GOD, and we all have or at least had them and still do if we have not been cleansed of them. Notice how we are cleansed from them , we are (WASHED) by the (WORD) of GOD, Jesus said to his Disciples you are now (CLEAN) by the WORDS i have spoken unto you. Why? because the WORDS he spoke were GODS Words. i.e. Godly intellect. WE are like receptors and can recieve into ourselves (INTELLECT) and this received intellect is what will control our thinking which controls our actions.
Jesus was (TEMPTED) in (ALL MANOR) as we are, what does that mean, it means He also had to deal with those spirit intellects as we do. Jesus knew His glorified destiny as well as anyone did, He knew His calling and position God Had placed on Him. After He had received the HOLY SPIRIT or HOLY INTELLECT, He had to deal with his Human Nature Just as we DO, So He was led into the wilderness for Forty days and Nights and there He faced the Human challenge of His self Will brought on by His knowledge of who He was and His position he would play in history, and there when he was in this weakened state after the fasting he was confronted with Human reason, and there He overcame in by the same way we are to by the WORD OF GOD.
Lets conceder some of the things mentioned in the text, Matt 4:1-11…> then Jesus was led up by the (SPIRIT) HE HAD JUST RECIEVED, into the wilderness TO BE TEMPTED by the devil, while you believe that was a being external of Jesus, i believe it was Jesus own Will and intellect that was being tested through the great temptation that is in all man kind. 2…> Now when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry, (so where did this temptation come from to turn rocks to bread, was it not from inside Jesus himself?. 3…> now when the tempter came to him he said, if you are the son of God, command these stones to become bread, The tempter was not some external force it was internal because Jesus knew he had be given authority to turn the stone into bread if he wanted to, but again the (WORD) Intellect of GOD, prevailed over His personal desires, which was to satisfy his hunger. The same holds true for the rest of the text the “devil” was his own personal Human Will the had to be put to death and He did it by the WORD OF GOD, Just like we must also. Even simple logic can show the the “devil” could not have taken him up to a exceedingly high mountain and showed Him the kingdoms of the whole world, (there is (NO) mountain hight enough to do that on the earth. These temptation were from Jesus own Carnal Mind which He mastered by the WORD OF GOD, Godly intellect or SPIRIT. This trial was ONE of Jesus' greatest victory and was done BY THE WORD OD GOD< Not His words, But GOD"S .
WJ……..Where does it say GOD is a being as you say, no where does it say in what form God exists , It simply says GOD is SPIRIT and a SPIRIT does (NOT) have a BODY, as Jesus plainly said. Neither do demons or devils have bodies of their own either, they are spirit intellects that are every where in this world and in all of it's people. Except those who have been washed and cleansed of them by the word of GOD.
This whole idea of modern and past thinking of demons and devils and Satan's have plagues man kind for many thousands of years it has it origins in pure paganism and was strictly forbidden by God to be taught or practiced in the Old Testament and is nothing more then a Idolatrous practice. There is no devil beings or demons going around jumping in and out of people there never was. Only a metaphysical mind enjoins these teachings. Just as the pagan did in time past even to the extent for saying stone images were indeed their Gods even making some of the out of iron and sacrificing their baby's in the red hot outstretched arms of these false God's as Israel did and were Kicked out of there land for these evil practices.
Brethren there is (NOTHING) that has overtaken you that is not (COMMON) to man. There are not demon beings going around jumping in and out of people , its intellect that you give yourselves too that leads you into error, Not some unknowable out side being or person, Just the intellect you have that does it nothing else and we all can be cleansed of these wrong intellect by replacing them with the right intellect and that comes by the WORD OF GOD> which is GOD”S INTELLECT it will wash you from (ALL) unclean thoughts, and make you as white as snow. IMO
peace to you ……………gene
Nick………No Jesus and me and Newton and Jodi are not plagued by falsehoods, it's you lack of understanding thats plaguing you through.. IMO
peace ……….gene
Nick….your constant discrediting remarks only show you lack of intelligence , if you have some thing to offer as proof of what I have or Newton or Jodi say please present it or else keep your false accusations to yourself, I think we would all appreciate it. Your only showing your ignorance by you doing that. IMO
peace………gene
DK….Human are beings have a Spirit. the Spirit in them is not a being. There are bodies that contain spirit but the spirit in the body is no a being, it is and intellect. Jesus said when an unclean spirit leaves and man (IT) not he, goes about in arid places seeking a place to rest . Notice why is it going around seeking a place to rest,? (because it has no body of its own) and where is it going around in arid places , Because it is a Spirit (Thought, Intellect) and is useless unless it finds some thing to inter, and the only thing it can inter is the mind of a person or thing that has a body. Think of it this way every good and every evil intellect has always existed , there is nothing new under the sun. Now if you will conceder that these intellect make up all life forces that drives what is alive and they themselves are life forces. Now also conceder these life forces existing every where they are categorized as either good or evil forces, but how are they forces in this world, it is only when they inter into a mind that has a body, they can animate that body, by controlling it through the thoughts of the mind of the body there in. When these intellect inter us they begin to take over our driving forces in us and cause us to move it there direction. If we Have God's Spirit in us His Spirit (Godly intellect ) then we are driven by it to do the things of God. It's just that simple sow to the spirit of GOD and reap life, sow to the spirit of the world and you will reap death. WE all must be washed by the word of God and if we are we will become clean, for you are washed by the word of God.
Peace to you DK and yours…………gene
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